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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

Tober said:

I'm looking at some of the reporting about the election. As a Dutchie it always baffles me those voting results being split up by ethnic groups. It would be unthinkable here in the Netherlands.

I get it's possible to see difference in numbers by income class, age or if someone lives in a high or low population area. But it simply feels silly to me expecting people to vote by their skincolor.

To my American friends, why is it done this way?

Because U.S. law has typically treated people differently based on skin color from the very beginning. When the Constitution was drafted, racial differences were actually baked into the main body of the Constitution. Black Americans were not citizens and did not have the right to vote until the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments were passed after the Civil War. Blacks were counted as three-fifths of a person because the South wanted to use enslaved people to pad out their representation in the House of Representatives, and therefore the Electoral College, despite the fact that they were not legally citizens and had no voting rights. The North did not want the South to be able to count them at all because they were not legally citizens. The South was not as invested in becoming independent from Britain as the North was. Southern plantation society was their version of British peerage and aristocracy. The South simply refused to join the revolution unless concessions were made. The concessions ended up being the Three-Fifths Compromise.

After the Civil War, blacks continued to not be treated as equals. The South openly passed Jim Crow laws which disenfranchised black voters and spent the next 100 years fighting to maintain them, despite the fact that the Constitution supposedly guaranteed equal rights for blacks. The same laws also denied educational opportunities for blacks for the purposes of forcing them into being cheap labor. That said, the North was marginally better, at best, in that regard. It took the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to end Jim Crow, using the Interstate Commerce Clause to enforce it. Even then, it continued in subtle ways like redlining real estate to keep minorities out.

Native Americans had their lands seized and were sent to reservations, and forced into tribal schools to Christianize and Americanize them. There is one of those tribal schools in my home city of Phoenix, which is now a museum, that has a major east-west road named after it. Tribal lands are sovereign and are subject only to their own jurisdiction and that of the federal government; they are outside the control of the states. That is an issue in Oklahoma, where the Oklahoma state government is frustrated that they can't exert control over tribal members in the eastern part of the state as per McGirt v. Oklahoma. Native Americans didn't receive U.S. Citizenship until 1924. Even the Fourteenth Amendment's citizenship clause excluded Native Americans ("Indians not taxed") from citizenship.



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Well, I had a feeling Trump would win, but I didn't think it would be a landslide. Let alone the popular vote. Congrats to him. Just like the last time, I wish him the best of luck.



Mr.GameCrazy said:

Well, I had a feeling Trump would win, but I didn't think it would be a landslide. Let alone the popular vote. Congrats to him. Just like the last time, I wish him the best of luck.

Looking at your sig. You're a very lucky man. Is there a PC in the family and all?



Ryuu96 said:
LegitHyperbole said:

How do I get in contact with Bandor and why are ya giving up or what? It's not over the election is it?

Send him a PM. Anyway, a bit of a mix of reasons, it's not one specific one, just a few been building up, a little off-topic, I think I just need a long detox from both Politics and Gaming Discussion though and unfortunately, those are the two major reasons I'm even here in the first place.

    Oh well. Good luck man, have some good down time away from it and getting away from the politics will definitely improve your mental health. Best decision I ever made was to let be what may be and realise you can't effect anything on the Internet. Best o' luck 👊 



    All votes haven't been counted yet, but as of right now, this graph checks out for being a few hours old.

    2020
    81m (D) +74m (R) = 155m votes in total

    2024
    66m (D) + 72m (R) = 138m votes in total


    If the 15m missing Democratic voters went over to vote for Trump, I can at least understand their reasoning.
    But as of now around 15 million of the Democratic voters essentially just decided not to vote.
    Best to do this comparison after all votes have been counted though. It might allign a bit closer in the end, but man...

    Last edited by Hiku - on 06 November 2024

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    America is still a bigot. They are not ready for a black women be in power at that level that has intelligence.

    The fact that Michelle Obama had to convince black men to vote for Harris just shows and the hillbilly states voting for trump .

    Llama time said:

    So was it inflation that sunk Harris's bid?

    KLAMarine said:

    So was it inflation that sunk Harris's bid?





    the-pi-guy said:

    It's so frustrating how hard it is to have a nuanced conversation about things. 

    A lot of things are complicated, and a lot of things are fairly probabilistic. 

    On the probabilistic part, even if an answer is ridiculously likely that's not the same thing as having the answer.

    For example, it was never a 100% guarantee that the betting firms were going to be correct. If it points to a 70% chance, and you're 100% sure that it's going to turn out that way, I'm going to argue you to pull back and be 70% sure. If you're 100% sure that it was going to go the other way, I would tell you not to get your hopes up so high and pull you back to where the 70% is pointing to.

    It's frustrating, people seem to like taking sides on things (on both sides). To be clear, I'm not putting this on conservatives. This is something that most people seem to struggle with. Either people don't like not knowing an answer, or they just like taking sides for the sake of taking sides. 

    And stuff is complicated. It's really easy to say "Harris should have done x, y, z". People voted the way they did for all kinds of different reasons. I don't know if anything would have particularly changed if they had found someone else to run. I'm sure there are tons of different combinations of things that would have made a difference. I don't know what that difference would have actually amounted to, or what combinations would be the most effective. 

    Everyone is going to make different suggestions, and a lot of those things probably would have made a change, but no one "knows" what would have worked. Unless someone has an interdimensional portal where we can peek at an identical universe where those exact things happened, or they've perfectly figured out how to simulate politics with AI, it's all going to be educated guesses. 

    Personally I think it was always going to be an uphill battle, especially because people don't feel good about the economy. 

    I believe that no one knows what the next 4 years are going to look like. It's largely based on educated guesses.

    It could be that a lot of these terrible things that could happen, never do, because enough reasonable people push back against them.

    It could also be that it ends up being worse than anyone expects. 

    Or the usual complicated reality, is that it ends up being really good for some people, and really bad for others, "but that's okay because I'm not them".

    And I'm not even completely sure which result terrifies me more.

    Even if the next 4 years don't turn out bad, it's terrifying that a lot of guard rails are getting pulled. As in I'm terrified of a Trump 2 that follows Trump 1.

    This is a big issue I've had with a lot of left wing rhetoric. Something doesn't need to be the last straw to be bad; and there's always the chance that if it doesn't end up being that bad, then people will turn on you because they think you lied to them. 

    A lot of the struggles we're seeing today are the result of decades of policy changes, and propaganda. 

    Bro one of my friends says Trump has the Diddy party support and I sent him tiktoks of Trump himself saying hes friends with Diddy, and theres photos of him at a Diddys parties. It's like we live in two different worlds so much brainwashing.



    LurkerJ said:

    2) The problem is that a lot of this inflation is based on "price gouging" by corporations, and not based on sound economics or threatened profit margins, pure corporate greed, it's so hard to tackle this as a policy maker.

    I fucking hate corporates, this is why I was such a big fan of Lina Khan, but LOL, she is so FIRED now. I hope corporations are happy. 

    Thanks. Yes. A large part of this inflation is due to greedy fucking corporations price gouging, do people really expect pro-business Trump to do something about that? Lol. These corps saw what they could get away with during COVID and then decided to take it a step further, it has absolutely nothing to do with profit, it's pure greed, they will continue increasing until people speak with their wallets but unfortunately some of this stuff is essential. Now, tariffs, Trump's going to batter Americans with those and that's very much all his fault. Once again he's receiving an economy with positive signs for the future aside from inflation and watch him fuck it up, once again.

    I came around to Lina...She had a lot of great pro-consumer ideas, she's definitely being fired, can't be upsetting businesses now can we, same businesses laying off tens of thousands so they can save the equivalent of £50 to the average consumer, Lol. At least there's EC and CMA but EC feels defanged lately.

    Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 06 November 2024

    Ryuu96 said:
    Chrkeller said:

    This.  The whole NFL stuff was jabs at my position on betting firms...and funny enough, betting firms were right.

    Fact is there is a side in this thread that is 100% refuses to listen.  Hard to learn when one doesn't listen.  

    Thought Rol was doing this.

    Redskins Rule - Wikipedia

    Basically, yes. It's something that I turned into a running joke because the run-up to the election took forever and it was quite boring to follow for a long time. And because BFR took it seriously the first time I made a connection between NFL teams and swing states; and he still did until this day with his attempt at a gotcha post. I didn't go for the Redskins Rule specifically because for one, it's not about a swing state, and two, it was proven to be wrong before.

    ...

    I skipped a few people's post of the past day, but I can definitely say that Chrkeller's assertion that one side in this thread refuses to listen isn't true. Pretty much everyone understands why populism works and why voters glance over fascism; after all, we see the same thing happening in European countries and it's nothing new at all. The core of the problem is that you can't reason people out of a position that they haven't arrived at through logic in the first place.

    Biden's economic policies have worked, allowing the USA to recover from the aftermath of COVID better than any other industrialized country, creating millions of jobs in the process. But what do facts mean when people feel that they aren't true. Nobody has come up with a solution for that dilemma yet, hence why the far-right has risen virtually everywhere.



    Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.