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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Pokémon Presents 2024

burninmylight said:
Slownenberg said:

Anyone else thinking Legends Z-A is gonna be cross gen release coming out on Switch 2 launch day?

Seems like it'd be a bit weird if they only launched it on Switch ya know like a month or two before the next system launches. I think it'll join 3D Mario for the launch. Release a Switch version and Switch 2 version with maybe some basic graphical upgrades, on Switch 2 launch day.

Then again maybe Nintendo doesn't want a game with as mediocre visuals as Gamefreak makes them, and which was built for the Switch to be shown off as a next gen launch game next to a graphically far superior 3D Mario. Just weird timing for the game launch if they don't make it cross gen. I'm assuming they aren't going to have a AAA first party game for the holidays this year so it seems like it'd make much more sense to have it be the big holiday game if they aren't making it a cross gen launch game with the next gen version having major graphical upgrades to separate itself from the Switch version.

I do not, even thought it would make all of the sense.

Black 2 and White 2 came out a full year after the 3DS launched. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon came out half a year after the Switch launched. Game Freak and The Pokemon Company absolutely do not care about helping out a brand new Nintendo console, and are dragged kicking and screaming into each new generation.

I could see Legends Z-A being the big holiday game, especially since we have no evidence of anything else at the moment, but it'll say "Nintendo Switch" on the box, not "Switch 2."

I do think that quietly Nintendo doesn't want games with the mediocre visuals and programming that Game Freak makes associated with the Nintendo brand, but there's not a lot that it can do about it. This is all my speculation, but I'd also bet that it doesn't like the frequency of mainline generation releases either. Nintendo doesn't fully own GF or the Pokemon IP though, so all it can do is grit its teeth while collecting its portion of the check.

The main reason Game Freak was kicking and screaming to start a new generation was due to Creatures Inc. pushing for the newest anime. But I think with Pokémon Horizons, Creatures Inc will let Game Freak be able to rest a bit longer. 

So do you assume that Legends Z-A will release Nov 2025? I personally think Jan 2025 (like Legends Arceus).



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

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Shtinamin_ said:
burninmylight said:

I do not, even thought it would make all of the sense.

Black 2 and White 2 came out a full year after the 3DS launched. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon came out half a year after the Switch launched. Game Freak and The Pokemon Company absolutely do not care about helping out a brand new Nintendo console, and are dragged kicking and screaming into each new generation.

I could see Legends Z-A being the big holiday game, especially since we have no evidence of anything else at the moment, but it'll say "Nintendo Switch" on the box, not "Switch 2."

I do think that quietly Nintendo doesn't want games with the mediocre visuals and programming that Game Freak makes associated with the Nintendo brand, but there's not a lot that it can do about it. This is all my speculation, but I'd also bet that it doesn't like the frequency of mainline generation releases either. Nintendo doesn't fully own GF or the Pokemon IP though, so all it can do is grit its teeth while collecting its portion of the check.

The main reason Game Freak was kicking and screaming to start a new generation was due to Creatures Inc. pushing for the newest anime. But I think with Pokémon Horizons, Creatures Inc will let Game Freak be able to rest a bit longer. 

So do you assume that Legends Z-A will release Nov 2025? I personally think Jan 2025 (like Legends Arceus).

It will be march 2025 and be one of the Switch 2 (or whatever its called) launch titles



我是广州人

160rmf said:

Interesting, I really didn't know about the re-release figures. Actually I totally forgot they made a 3ds version of the original games. 

Makes me wonder why they're holding a NSO release like some precious gem that needs to be sold separately or is it not feasible to do that while doing other projects? It really doesn't feel that demanding for their management.

They probably think it wouldnt be worth it lol





Shtinamin_ said:
burninmylight said:

I do not, even thought it would make all of the sense.

Black 2 and White 2 came out a full year after the 3DS launched. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon came out half a year after the Switch launched. Game Freak and The Pokemon Company absolutely do not care about helping out a brand new Nintendo console, and are dragged kicking and screaming into each new generation.

I could see Legends Z-A being the big holiday game, especially since we have no evidence of anything else at the moment, but it'll say "Nintendo Switch" on the box, not "Switch 2."

I do think that quietly Nintendo doesn't want games with the mediocre visuals and programming that Game Freak makes associated with the Nintendo brand, but there's not a lot that it can do about it. This is all my speculation, but I'd also bet that it doesn't like the frequency of mainline generation releases either. Nintendo doesn't fully own GF or the Pokemon IP though, so all it can do is grit its teeth while collecting its portion of the check.

The main reason Game Freak was kicking and screaming to start a new generation was due to Creatures Inc. pushing for the newest anime. But I think with Pokémon Horizons, Creatures Inc will let Game Freak be able to rest a bit longer. 

So do you assume that Legends Z-A will release Nov 2025? I personally think Jan 2025 (like Legends Arceus).

Sorry, when I said they are dragged kicking and screaming into each new generation, I meant console generation, not Pokemon generation. There is a history of GF making big mainline Pokemon games one of, if not the last hurrah of a dying console when a new one is either right around the corner or already on the street and could have used the boost that those games could have given them. And I'm certain there's nothing Nintendo can do about it.

If Nintendo had more control of the IP and Game Freak, do you think it would have let B2W2 come out exclusively for the original DS in 2012 while the 3DS was struggling to find footing, the Wii U wasn't out yet and the Wii was a dead console walking?

In my original post, I forgot to mention that Crystal came out for the GBC back in Dec. 2000 in Japan and July-Nov. 2001 everywhere else, while the GBA came out in March-June 2001. Emerald came out in September 2004 in Japan, May-Oct. 2005 everywhere else, while the DS came out in November 2004 in North America, Dec. 2004-March 2005 everywhere else.

Imagine if Crystal was a GBA launch window game, Emerald was a DS launch window game, B2W2 came out within 3DS' first year, and USUM possibly getting souped up Switch ports or being moved there entirely within its first year.



burninmylight said:
Shtinamin_ said:

The main reason Game Freak was kicking and screaming to start a new generation was due to Creatures Inc. pushing for the newest anime. But I think with Pokémon Horizons, Creatures Inc will let Game Freak be able to rest a bit longer. 

So do you assume that Legends Z-A will release Nov 2025? I personally think Jan 2025 (like Legends Arceus).

Sorry, when I said they are dragged kicking and screaming into each new generation, I meant console generation, not Pokemon generation. There is a history of GF making big mainline Pokemon games one of, if not the last hurrah of a dying console when a new one is either right around the corner or already on the street and could have used the boost that those games could have given them. And I'm certain there's nothing Nintendo can do about it.

If Nintendo had more control of the IP and Game Freak, do you think it would have let B2W2 come out exclusively for the original DS in 2012 while the 3DS was struggling to find footing, the Wii U wasn't out yet and the Wii was a dead console walking?

In my original post, I forgot to mention that Crystal came out for the GBC back in Dec. 2000 in Japan and July-Nov. 2001 everywhere else, while the GBA came out in March-June 2001. Emerald came out in September 2004 in Japan, May-Oct. 2005 everywhere else, while the DS came out in November 2004 in North America, Dec. 2004-March 2005 everywhere else.

Imagine if Crystal was a GBA launch window game, Emerald was a DS launch window game, B2W2 came out within 3DS' first year, and USUM possibly getting souped up Switch ports or being moved there entirely within its first year.

Yep they do. I think it’s because when Game Freak finish their generation they “immediately” get to work on the next generation. By the time that happens they already have an idea on what console it will be on. The answer is: the one that’s available. Once they’ve made that decision they don’t backtrack because they don’t have the time, resources, nor ability to put it onto the newest console.

Let’s look at each scenario then

Game FreakGame DevelopedGame ReleasedTotal TimeTotal TimeConsole/Handheld ReleasedConsole/Handhled Started DevelopmentNintendo
CrystalNov 1999Dec 20001 year3 yearsMar 20011996, 1998GBA
EmeraldNov 2002Sept 20042 year2 yearsSept 2004Mid 2002DS
Black 2/White 2Sept 2010Jun 20121.5 year1.5 yearsFeb 2011Late 20093DS
USUMNov 2016Nov 20171 year3.5 yearsMar 2017Late 2013Switch
Legends Z-A2022? (I assume so based on when Legends Arceus was released)20253 years?4 years2025 (Rumored)2021? (During Switch Pro Rumors)Successor (NX)

Now looking at this we can see a pattern. Game Freak starts to develop a game near the same time as Nintendo starts to develop their console/handheld (with a variable of ±1 year, Switch looks to be an outlier due to WiiU failure). This leads me to think a couple of ideas. 

  1. Nintendo doesn't share hardware information with Game Freak until the dev kits roll out (which is around 1 year before the console/handheld is released). If this wasnt the case (Nintendo gives Game Freak "confidential" hardware info) then we should of seen USUM release on Switch, and Black 2/White 2 on the 3DS.
  2. Game Freak has already set their mind to release on a console/handheld and won't deviate
  3. Both 1 & 2
  4. None of the above

Nintendo holds 33% shares in The Pokémon Company, same with Game Freak and Creatures Inc. All three are determining the future of Pokémon. Creatures forces Game Freak to push for new generations whenever a new tv series is releasing or a new card deck line comes (though I think gen 9-10 will be more relaxed). For me it looks like that these game releases on the "older" hardware is Game Freak saying, "Our last generation starter game wasn't what we wanted it to be so here is the "Extended Version" with all the content we wanted the game to originally have. But we couldn't due to time constraints. Please accept our apology by buying our "3rd version"." Then Nintendo sees that those "Extended versions" aren't selling as well as expected and tell Game Freak to stop. Hence why we are seeing DLC for gen 8-9. Otherwise we'd be getting Pokémon Crown (Calyrex), Pokémon Teal (Ogerpon). Game Freak looks like its at the bottom of the totem pole and can't win no matter what it does.

And yes, if all those titles were put onto the successor of their release console, then we could have a totally different situation than we have now. Game Freak would probably be selling 3rd versions instead of DLC, they also could have been seen as a respectable company (instead of embarrassing like with giving poorer quality games over the Switch's life), and longer anime seasons? Who knows.

Also you still didnt answer my question:

So do you assume that Legends Z-A will release Nov 2025?



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

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BasilZero said:
160rmf said:

Interesting, I really didn't know about the re-release figures. Actually I totally forgot they made a 3ds version of the original games. 

Makes me wonder why they're holding a NSO release like some precious gem that needs to be sold separately or is it not feasible to do that while doing other projects? It really doesn't feel that demanding for their management.

They probably think it wouldnt be worth it lol

Why wouldn't be worth it? Making 30 year old Gameboy games work in a official emulator operating on their platform. What returns they would expect to compensate for such task?

They already got proven that re-releasing as stand-alone games on Eshop won't set the world on fire, but keeping it away won't do any good. They have a service that adds money to them on a monthly base in a platform with a 130M+ userbase, that is in need for remarkable games such as pokemon to entice people to keep their signatures and attract new ones.

Keeping the game unavailable, specially now with 3ds Eshop closure, is their most stupid decision ever. I really hope they are already working on that, but are taking some time to make the game run in a fine state.

Last edited by 160rmf - on 01 March 2024

 

 

We reap what we sow

160rmf said:

Why wouldn't be worth it? Making 30 year old Gameboy games work in a official emulator operating on their platform. What returns they would expect to compensate for such task?

They already got proven that re-releasing as stand-alone games on Eshop won't set the world on fire, but keeping it away won't do any good. They have a service that adds money to them on a monthly base in a platform with a 130M+ userbase, that is in need for remarkable games such as pokemon to entice people to keep their signatures and attract new ones.

Keeping the game unavailable, specially now with 3ds Eshop closure, is their most stupid decision ever. I really hope they are already working on that, but are taking some time to make the game run in a fine state.

The most ideal thing that could happen is

1. Release Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow (Green in Japan), Gold/Silver/Crystal and Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald on NSO

2. Release Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green, HeartGold/SoulSilver, and Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire as eShop releases, digital only and priced around $20

Of course release them within couple years of each release through whats left of the Switch's lifetime and onto the next Nintendo system.

This is what I'm hoping for but I doubt they'll push it through as they might think it may make them lose players out on the newer games.

Edit: If not 3rd gen, 1st and 2nd gens for sure.





BasilZero said:

This is what I'm hoping for but I doubt they'll push it through as they might think it may make them lose players out on the newer games.

But anyone can play these games already, they can even run on a calculator lol!

I know that you are trying to dig their process thinking to understand the reason for the lack of old pokemon titles on Switch, which is hard. Because if their plans is to not bring back those titles, whatever their reasoning is, it will be just poor excuse for their management incompetence and/or poor market view.

Which is sad, because I was really hoping to get everything easy on my Switch, but I guess that once again I have to resort on villainous ways to replay those games 

Last edited by 160rmf - on 01 March 2024

 

 

We reap what we sow

I just realized that I'll have to update my profile pic with the release of Legends Z-A. I will wait for the hardcover image to show up. Too lazy rn. lol



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

160rmf said:

But anyone can play these games already, they can even run on a calculator lol!

I know that you are trying to dig their process thinking to understand the reason for the lack of old pokemon titles on Switch, which is hard. Because if their plans is to not bring back those titles, whatever their reasoning is, it will be just poor excuse for their management incompetence and/or poor market view.

Which is sad, because I was really hoping to get everything easy on my Switch, but I guess that once again I have to resort on villainous ways to replay those games 

Trust me, I would love to play older versions of the games as well lol