I've spent a large amount of time in the UK.  In fact the wait time for a specialist was when I lived in the UK.  Basically we were told to wait 6 months and hope it doesn't get worse.  We ended up having to go private.  

Here is the rub and where personal experience I think plays a huge role.  Many in this thread are talking about the cost of Healthcare in the US... 

UK high taxes + UK exorbitant home prices (especially for what you get) is way more expensive than US taxes + US home prices + US insurance 

*based on the states I've lived

I'll take the US system over the UK health system all day.  I easily covered the insurance costs by much lower taxes and way cheaper home.

Being told to wait 6 months, no thanks.  

Beautiful country BTW.  Lake District is amazing.  

Edit

Not directed at you but I chortle when people refer to NHS as free.  Nothing is free and it is funded by many paying 40 to 45% taxes.  

My larger point to Americans, is they have no idea how good they have it.  Just my 2 cents, but after living and extensive travel abroad, I find Americans spoiled and ungrateful.  Quality of life, living standards and upward mobility are superb in the US comparatively.  

On a side note US drivers need to level up.  UK drivers 10x better in skills, way nicer and actually follow the rules of the road.  And whomever came up with Sunday roast should be awarded a Nobel prize is awesomeness.

Obviously not comparable in outcome. The 'Not my President' movement in 2016 did not lead to storming Capital hill. It did storm Trump Tower though, albeit with fewer consequences.

But 'butthurt' is a thing unfortunately, no matter who wins or loses. If you would ask the question at the end of Trump's presidency if people changed their mind over 'Not my President', than probably the answer few did.  It does not surprise me that many Trump voters still think the 2020 election was stolen. The important thing though is what people do with it in the day to day lives afterwards.

That's the trouble with peace negotiations in any war (no not calling the US elections a war). Even if everybody is sick of it and want the war to end, there will be someone demanding that there can be no piece unless the other side admits they where wrong. And because ego's don't want to do that, the war will continue even though it makes no sense. Everybody loses. The only way to get out of it is to let the past be the past and talk about how to move forward together.

"You know, we're no different than an insurance company. Taiwan doesn't give us anything."

Trump Says Taiwan Should Pay For Defence, Sending TSMC Stock Down | Reuters

Maybe not...Lol. Everything has to be a transaction with this twat, he can never just do the right thing, first he cries about NATO "not paying their bills" which is him laying the groundwork for turning the American populace against NATO, now he's crying about Taiwan not paying America anything. Despite the fact that Taiwan (and NATO) spend billions on American equipment.

Trump Administration Approves $1.42 Billion in Arms Sales to Taiwan

Trump Administration Approves F-16 Fighter Jet Sales to Taiwan

Trump Administration Approves $2.37B Arms Sale to Taiwan

Well balls. Maybe the value of Taiwan for computer chips would be enough incentive but I can't see either of them, Biden or Trump allowing China to control the SCS. I just would have assumed Trump would be more stern on that front. He wants to leave NATO? I thought he had the power to disband NATO? Or am I wrong?

Well, the very, very cynical side of me cannot unsee, that the threat of chinese invasion in Taiwan puts pressure on TSMC and other chip manufacturers to move production to more safe havens for instance in the US. An outcome that would be most preferable to the US and which partly is already happening.

What I wrote was not defence of the NHS in its current state nor the state of the UK. You seem to have the position of "liberal ruled areas = shit results". Like The Pi Gi, I was trying to clarify it’s less about who’s in charge and more about what policies are being implemented.

The NHS had seen much better days, so did the UK, why not refer to those days if your argument is public healthcare doesn't work?

Just because it’s dysfunctional now after a decade of austerity measures and funding cuts under the conservatives, it doesn’t mean the NHS is failing because it’s a left wing organisation built on liberal or social policies, it means it’s failing because a decade of under investment under a right wing government when interest rates were super low was a massive mistake that’s now costing everyone a lot more than it would’ve if we had competent leaders.

The example I gave on Bo Jo policies in relation to primary care, were not examples of me praising Bo Jo, but the guy invested in primary care that in 5 years, the sector that was notorious for recruitment problems in 2019, is an now riddled with an over supply of GPs leading to an employment crisis (literally there won’t be enough jobs for the number of GPs the UK has been training the last 5 years). It was an example of how investment and policies matter more than what the person at the helm is on the right or the left of the spectrum. The Pi Gi was trying to give you examples of how many liberal leaders don’t push for liberal policies so you can’t just blame nation wide problems on where the left stands on issues like healthcare, my example was in support of his message. 

You brought up the housing crisis in the UK, fair point, it’s the other main issue the country is facing and if Labour does nothing but fix this issue and the NHS, GDP per capita would improve significantly and living standards would rise. However, the housing situation has nothing to do with the current state of the NHS or left leaning policies. It’s a separate problem that has been in the making for 2 decades under different incompetent reactionary governments that wait for problems to happen before they react; regardless of whether they were on the left or the right.

Whether this level of incompetence was just an oversight or a plan to serve the ultra rich is another debate. Ultimately, the doom loop of the housing crisis will not be broken out of without having bold leaders willing to upset asset managers and the super rich who are the sole beneficiaries from the status quo. Labour has many good plans across the board but building 350k homes a year isn’t ambitious enough when we’re at least 4 million behind, so just because they're on the left it doesn't mean they have the proper or improper plans to fix this, it only means their plans are not going to work. Just like the tories failed to react and Bo Jo failed to fix the housing crisis despite their repeated promises as well.

If a right wing government comes up with a plan to build 1 million house a year, bring it on, but they were in power for 15 years and they didn't. This isn't a left issue, it's incompetence at the highest level (purposeful incompetence serving the ultra rich centred growth policies). You can apply across the board, the tories privatisation and lack strong regulations meant our railways are now shit, because the "oh no, don't upset these mega corporations otherwise they'll take their money away" isn't a good way to govern. If Labour adopts left leaning policies and nationalises railways, bringing the country's transport to the same level London's public transport is operating on, that's a win the right failed to achieve. 

So instead of “liberal states = shit”, discuss the specific policies (or lack of) that have led to specific problems, that would be a more fruitful conversation to have. 

I can only speak to the experiences I have had.  I will not talk about a time in which I had no direct experience.  

I'm just giving my honest opinion based on experiences.  

And my argument against liberal is no different than the arguments others are putting forth against conservatives.  But I'm going against the grain, thus get called out.  

The UK is a wonderful place and I am forever grateful they welcomed me and allowed me an experience that I cherish.  

My larger point is Americans are spoiled babies.  Americans have zero idea how good they have it.  

Like I said, everything has to be a transaction to him, he is unable to see the larger picture.

It's my personal belief that he wants to leave NATO but I think Congress would stop him so instead he will just do nothing for NATO. People think Article 5 forces countries to go to war but it doesn't, it simply asks them to do what they deem necessary to defend said country (which can include troops, but doesn't have to). The issue is if someone ignores Article 5, well then that basically dismantles the whole purpose of NATO.

America doesn't have the power to disband NATO. NATO's HQ is in Belgium and Military HQ also in Belgium. Each country has its own say on things, for example, if a country wants to join NATO, it requires the YES vote of every single member of NATO, a single NO and the country cannot join NATO, it doesn't matter who it is, I think people wrongly confuse America as controlling NATO when in actual fact it's simply because America is by far the largest and most powerful army in NATO and thus America leads certain NATO initiatives.

He says shit like "NATO isn't paying its bills" which I strongly believe is him trying to turn Americans against it, he leaves context out to fool Americans into thinking that NATO countries owe America something, in actual fact the only thing NATO countries are told to do is spend 2% of their own GDP on their military and even then, that isn't a hard rule and you don't get kicked out because of it.

Don't forget how much of a failure the privatisation of water has been! Lol.

I fear that would just put Taiwan more at risk Tbh.

China doesn't want Taiwan only because of their manufacturing capabilities, they like Russia, are land grabbing crazies who think Taiwan is theirs by right, lets say Taiwan is no longer the global supplier of chips, how hard would countries then defend Taiwan against a superpower like China? It's starting to increasingly feel like unless your name is Israel, don't count on America on being an ally unless you can give them something in return.