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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How will be Switch 2 performance wise?

 

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Yeah, I don't see a problem with 256 GB; should prove big enough for any game to be playable and people who are going to go heavy with digital will invest in expandable storage anyway.

Also, people expecting the latest and greatest tech in the Switch 2 are missing the point, I think. What we in fact have here seems to be something that is much above what most people anticipated Nintendo to ever go with. Do I expect the Steamdeck 2 to be more powerful than Switch 2? Sure, but do I expect it to render the Switch 2 obsolete with tech that dwarfs it? No, I don't - at least not perceivably.  The Switch 2 looks to be developed with that "PS2" level of quality, where it's so good that everyone wants it and nothing in the near future will, appreciably, surpass it from a tech standpoint - not for a comparable price point anyway.

Seems that Switch 2 is shooting for the moon, but there are always people who will expect all of the stars and satellites to come with it. Just because better tech exists doesn't mean it's reasonable to expect premium components for a game system targeting the mass market.

Last edited by archbrix - on 23 May 2024

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GPU may have inherited some of the features of the Lovelace.



Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

GPU may have inherited some of the features of the Lovelace.

That would be awesome if true.



34 years playing games.

 

Chrkeller said:
Phenomajp13 said:

I'll be picking up the 256 SD Express before Switch 2 launches but I would like an idea of the pricing. Are we talking 1TB SD pricing like for my Series X? Any idea on how much that 512 will cost for SD Express?

I have the same question to be honest.  I am not finding many SD express cards at 800 mb/s that aren't $200-$300 for 512 gb.  Doesn't seem like they are readily available, at least not at Amazon or Scan.  Maybe Nintendo will have to sell custom expansions themselves?  I kind of get these cards are rare and not available.  Cameras don't need 800 mb/s, thus the market for fast SD cards is niche?  

edit

SanDisk Extreme PRO Cfexpress Card Type B, 256GB, Up To 1700MB/S, for RAW 4K Video : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Not sure if that is the same thing people are thinking for S2 storage expansion.  Kind of pricey.  

There are several approaches Nintendo can take to make it a non-issue even with a bog-standard SD card.

1) Large SLC cache to hide the bandwidth and latency deficit.

2) More god damn Ram so the console doesn't need to waste power streaming from storage.

3) Just because it's UFS 3.1, doesn't mean the internal storage is operating at UFS 3.1 maximum transfer rates, it's likely much lower as Nintendo doesn't have the power budget or room for a large compliment of NAND chips for parallelism of memory transfers.

4) There are other cards on the market other than Cfexpress.
I.E. SD Cards can operate at 3.9GB/s with the version 8.0 standard as it uses full duplex PCI-E.

Soundwave said:

256GB was chosen for a reason, I don't think it's random, it's because Nintendo knows most 3rd party games are 150GB max ... 256GB ensures all their development partners that you can make your game on Switch 2 and every system technically has the internal storage to hold the entire game. 128GB would have been a problem, 256GB isn't.

Now a consumer may have to flush their fridge, but that's not really the publisher's problem, you can still use even bog standard dirt cheap regular SD Cards for cold storage and move games in/out of the main storage or buy one of Samsung's upcoming faster SD Cards and two pools of storage.

Anyone who actually owns an Xbox or Playstation since 2013 understands how annoying it is to constantly install, update, transfer and shuffle around games when your storage is 512GB.
I remember on my launch Xbox One with it's available (Once the OS stole it's fair share and accounting for the measurement difference between HDD and OS manufacturers) 362GB of HDD having to spend 10's of hours uninstalling and installing games just because I wanted to play something different.

And with many games over 100GB these days, 256GB just isn't enough for the long term... Remember it's going to be a system that people will be potentially gaming in 2032 and beyond. - Think about the longer term.

Heck, the 32GB on the Switch was arguably not enough.

It's not convenient. It's not fun. It's not a good design choice. More storage, more ram is needed.

Phenomajp13 said:

Yeah thanks for this, all my research has shown this faster memory could be expensive like the SSDs for PS5/Xbox series. So I'll probably be investing this holiday before Switch 2 releases. I don't get the concern though, Nintendo games will most likely still be fully playable physically unlike the other two consoles where yeah they give you about a terabyte but they also force you to install all your games and have far larger sizes. Nintendo games will likely continue to be the highest selling games on Switch 2 and will not require a download. I personally don't but anymore Nintendo games digitally to conserve space for my 3rd party games. 

Many Switch physical games mandate a download.

But with the carts themselves, Nintendo has also started to use cheaper NAND in some carts, especially the larger ones instead of ROM, so eventually the data will die on the carts anyway. NAND isn't good for long term storage.

Chrkeller said:

Fast memory is super expensive.  I think I spent $300 for my PC M2 drive and M2 won't work with portables, gets way too hot.  

Well that's a blatant lie.

HANDHELD Portables with M.2:
1) Steamdeck.
2) Rog Ally.
3) Ayaneo 2S.
4) OneXPlayer OneXFly.
5) Lenovo Legion Go.

And more. (I can list them if you want, but I think I made my point!)

There are a bunch of tablets and laptops with M.2 as well.

The correct statement would have been "SOME" M.2 SSD's get hot. Usually only the super fast ones.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

I have the same question to be honest.  I am not finding many SD express cards at 800 mb/s that aren't $200-$300 for 512 gb.  Doesn't seem like they are readily available, at least not at Amazon or Scan.  Maybe Nintendo will have to sell custom expansions themselves?  I kind of get these cards are rare and not available.  Cameras don't need 800 mb/s, thus the market for fast SD cards is niche?  

edit

SanDisk Extreme PRO Cfexpress Card Type B, 256GB, Up To 1700MB/S, for RAW 4K Video : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Not sure if that is the same thing people are thinking for S2 storage expansion.  Kind of pricey.  

There are several approaches Nintendo can take to make it a non-issue even with a bog-standard SD card.

1) Large SLC cache to hide the bandwidth and latency deficit.

2) More god damn Ram so the console doesn't need to waste power streaming from storage.

3) Just because it's UFS 3.1, doesn't mean the internal storage is operating at UFS 3.1 maximum transfer rates, it's likely much lower as Nintendo doesn't have the power budget or room for a large compliment of NAND chips for parallelism of memory transfers.

4) There are other cards on the market other than Cfexpress.
I.E. SD Cards can operate at 3.9GB/s with the version 8.0 standard as it uses full duplex PCI-E.

Soundwave said:

256GB was chosen for a reason, I don't think it's random, it's because Nintendo knows most 3rd party games are 150GB max ... 256GB ensures all their development partners that you can make your game on Switch 2 and every system technically has the internal storage to hold the entire game. 128GB would have been a problem, 256GB isn't.

Now a consumer may have to flush their fridge, but that's not really the publisher's problem, you can still use even bog standard dirt cheap regular SD Cards for cold storage and move games in/out of the main storage or buy one of Samsung's upcoming faster SD Cards and two pools of storage.

Anyone who actually owns an Xbox or Playstation since 2013 understands how annoying it is to constantly install, update, transfer and shuffle around games when your storage is 512GB.
I remember on my launch Xbox One with it's available (Once the OS stole it's fair share and accounting for the measurement difference between HDD and OS manufacturers) 362GB of HDD having to spend 10's of hours uninstalling and installing games just because I wanted to play something different.

And with many games over 100GB these days, 256GB just isn't enough for the long term... Remember it's going to be a system that people will be potentially gaming in 2032 and beyond. - Think about the longer term.

Heck, the 32GB on the Switch was arguably not enough.

It's not convenient. It's not fun. It's not a good design choice. More storage, more ram is needed.

Phenomajp13 said:

Yeah thanks for this, all my research has shown this faster memory could be expensive like the SSDs for PS5/Xbox series. So I'll probably be investing this holiday before Switch 2 releases. I don't get the concern though, Nintendo games will most likely still be fully playable physically unlike the other two consoles where yeah they give you about a terabyte but they also force you to install all your games and have far larger sizes. Nintendo games will likely continue to be the highest selling games on Switch 2 and will not require a download. I personally don't but anymore Nintendo games digitally to conserve space for my 3rd party games. 

Many Switch physical games mandate a download.

But with the carts themselves, Nintendo has also started to use cheaper NAND in some carts, especially the larger ones instead of ROM, so eventually the data will die on the carts anyway. NAND isn't good for long term storage.

Chrkeller said:

Fast memory is super expensive.  I think I spent $300 for my PC M2 drive and M2 won't work with portables, gets way too hot.  

Well that's a blatant lie.

HANDHELD Portables with M.2:
1) Steamdeck.
2) Rog Ally.
3) Ayaneo 2S.
4) OneXPlayer OneXFly.
5) Lenovo Legion Go.

And more. (I can list them if you want, but I think I made my point!)

There are a bunch of tablets and laptops with M.2 as well.

The correct statement would have been "SOME" M.2 SSD's get hot. Usually only the super fast ones.

You sure?  I was under the impression the expandable memory on the Deck, Ally, etc. was all SD?  Not M2.

I am pretty sure I am right.  Perhaps you should understand an argument before calling someone a liar?  Cooling an expandable memory slot on a portable isn't normal/easy.  Which was my point.    

edit:

Yep I was right.  The Deck, Go and Ally all have SD expandable storage.  Go figure.  If you bothered to take 30 seconds out of your day, you would have realized Pheno and I were talking about the card slots.  Not main storage.

Nice swing and miss.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 24 May 2024

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

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@Pemalite Dude I am aware of the many games on Switch that require downloads but I am also aware of the many that don't, including the vastly more popular Nintendo games. This is still a Nintendo console, in others words most of the userbase will be happy to know their Nintendo games will not require a download at all. They just have to worry about their 3rd party AAA games. I agree about the 256 GB being small but atleast now no individual game should be able to fill it besides the Call of Duty app, which is like 200 GB. Switch 1's 32 GB was filled by NBA 2K alone. The Oled model has 64 GB and there are a few games on Switch I believe really push it such as Doom Eternal. I personally am OK with the 256 because if Nintendo went higher, they would certainly upcharge me for it. I would rather invest that in a better option myself such as 1 TB micro SD.



Phenomajp13 said:

@Pemalite Dude I am aware of the many games on Switch that require downloads but I am also aware of the many that don't, including the vastly more popular Nintendo games. This is still a Nintendo console, in others words most of the userbase will be happy to know their Nintendo games will not require a download at all. They just have to worry about their 3rd party AAA games. I agree about the 256 GB being small but atleast now no individual game should be able to fill it besides the Call of Duty app, which is like 200 GB. Switch 1's 32 GB was filled by NBA 2K alone. The Oled model has 64 GB and there are a few games on Switch I believe really push it such as Doom Eternal. I personally am OK with the 256 because if Nintendo went higher, they would certainly upcharge me for it. I would rather invest that in a better option myself such as 1 TB micro SD.

100% agreed.  Nintendo games won't be 100+ gb.  Most will be 20 gb, maybe even less.  1st party is going to be the lion's share of game sales for the S2.  It makes no sense for Nintendo to up charge everyone for the benefit of the few.  And given Nintendo's art style, 12 gb of ram is plenty for SD to work fine for those who want a bit more.  

Nintendo doesn't need to be launching a $600+ high end portable.  That isn't their audience.  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Chrkeller said:

You sure?  I was under the impression the expandable memory on the Deck, Ally, etc. was all SD?  Not M2.

I am pretty sure I am right.  Perhaps you should understand an argument before calling someone a liar?  Cooling an expandable memory slot on a portable isn't normal/easy.  Which was my point.    

edit:

Yep I was right.  The Deck, Go and Ally all have SD expandable storage.  Go figure.  If you bothered to take 30 seconds out of your day, you would have realized Pheno and I were talking about the card slots.  Not main storage.

Nice swing and miss.  

https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Steam_Deck
https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Asus_ROG_Ally
Steam Deck, Rog Ally,  use M.2 2230 SSD.

Ayaneo 2S,OneXPlayer OneXFly has an upgrade-able M.2 2280 SSD.
https://ayaneo.com/product/AYANEO-2S.html
https://onexplayerstore.com/products/onexplayer-ssd-m-2-2280?variant=47686151635238

The Lenovo Legion Go allows you to swap out the M.2 2242 OR a 2230 with an extender.
https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/legion-laptops/legion-9-series/legion-go/len106g0001?orgRef=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252F

All the storage is replaceable and expandable.

If you are ONLY worried about "cooling" it's not an issue as most of these SSD's don't even need any kind of cooling at all.

The real issue will be whether you can make it hot-swappable.. Because circuit boards don't look great to consumers... Static. All that fun stuff.
Microsoft got around this issue with it's expansion drive on Xbox which is just a Phison SSD controller and a chunk of NAND in a bespoke form factor.

But then you delve into the propriety side, which tends to get higher priced. See: Sony Memory Stick, Xbox Expansion Card.

Phenomajp13 said:

@Pemalite Dude I am aware of the many games on Switch that require downloads but I am also aware of the many that don't, including the vastly more popular Nintendo games. This is still a Nintendo console, in others words most of the userbase will be happy to know their Nintendo games will not require a download at all. They just have to worry about their 3rd party AAA games. I agree about the 256 GB being small but atleast now no individual game should be able to fill it besides the Call of Duty app, which is like 200 GB. Switch 1's 32 GB was filled by NBA 2K alone. The Oled model has 64 GB and there are a few games on Switch I believe really push it such as Doom Eternal. I personally am OK with the 256 because if Nintendo went higher, they would certainly upcharge me for it. I would rather invest that in a better option myself such as 1 TB micro SD.

You cannot 100% definitely assert that no Nintendo games will require an extra external download.

The console hasn't been released or detailed yet with actual, verifiable, information.

We need to keep in mind that there are literally thousands of Xbox and Playstation games that are under a couple of Gigabytes, doesn't detract from the fact that a significant portion of the most popular games are monstrous in size and will continue to grow in size.

Remember the 3DS had it's largest Cart-based game at 5GB.
The Switch has MULTIPLE games that *cannot* even be downloaded onto the base Switch or Switch Lite.
I.E:
NBA 2k4 @ 61.7GB.
NBA 2k3 @ 55.6GB.
The Witcher 3 @ 39.3GB.
Mortal Kombat 11 @ 32.5GB.
Doom Slayers Collection @ 32.3GB.

And more. 5GB to 61.7GB.

Next gen Switch -will- be larger.

Chrkeller said:

100% agreed.  Nintendo games won't be 100+ gb.  Most will be 20 gb, maybe even less.  1st party is going to be the lion's share of game sales for the S2.  It makes no sense for Nintendo to up charge everyone for the benefit of the few.  And given Nintendo's art style, 12 gb of ram is plenty for SD to work fine for those who want a bit more.  

Nintendo doesn't need to be launching a $600+ high end portable.  That isn't their audience.  

No one is saying that Nintendo should release a $600 portable.

I don't think people understand how insignificant the cost to go from 12GB to 16GB would be.

On PC (Where there is profit, not at-cost or bulk sales discount)
8GB to 16GB is a jump from $35 AUD to $59 AUD.
https://www.pccasegear.com/products/64838/team-t-force-vulcan-z-8gb-1x8gb-3200mhz-cl16-ddr4
https://www.pccasegear.com/products/64938/team-t-force-vulcan-z-16gb-1x16gb-3200mhz-cl16-ddr4-grey

12GB to 16GB would be an even smaller price jump... But the benefits would be huge and would enable even easier porting from Xbox, PC and Playstation. (And next-gen which looks to start in 2026.)

It's not like it's asking for an extra $100 in bill of materials making your $600 figure bizarre.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

You sure?  I was under the impression the expandable memory on the Deck, Ally, etc. was all SD?  Not M2.

I am pretty sure I am right.  Perhaps you should understand an argument before calling someone a liar?  Cooling an expandable memory slot on a portable isn't normal/easy.  Which was my point.    

edit:

Yep I was right.  The Deck, Go and Ally all have SD expandable storage.  Go figure.  If you bothered to take 30 seconds out of your day, you would have realized Pheno and I were talking about the card slots.  Not main storage.

Nice swing and miss.  

https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Steam_Deck
https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Asus_ROG_Ally
Steam Deck, Rog Ally,  use M.2 2230 SSD.

Ayaneo 2S,OneXPlayer OneXFly has an upgrade-able M.2 2280 SSD.
https://ayaneo.com/product/AYANEO-2S.html
https://onexplayerstore.com/products/onexplayer-ssd-m-2-2280?variant=47686151635238

The Lenovo Legion Go allows you to swap out the M.2 2242 OR a 2230 with an extender.
https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/legion-laptops/legion-9-series/legion-go/len106g0001?orgRef=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252F

All the storage is replaceable and expandable.

If you are ONLY worried about "cooling" it's not an issue as most of these SSD's don't even need any kind of cooling at all.

The real issue will be whether you can make it hot-swappable.. Because circuit boards don't look great to consumers... Static. All that fun stuff.
Microsoft got around this issue with it's expansion drive on Xbox which is just a Phison SSD controller and a chunk of NAND in a bespoke form factor.

But then you delve into the propriety side, which tends to get higher priced. See: Sony Memory Stick, Xbox Expansion Card.

Phenomajp13 said:

@Pemalite Dude I am aware of the many games on Switch that require downloads but I am also aware of the many that don't, including the vastly more popular Nintendo games. This is still a Nintendo console, in others words most of the userbase will be happy to know their Nintendo games will not require a download at all. They just have to worry about their 3rd party AAA games. I agree about the 256 GB being small but atleast now no individual game should be able to fill it besides the Call of Duty app, which is like 200 GB. Switch 1's 32 GB was filled by NBA 2K alone. The Oled model has 64 GB and there are a few games on Switch I believe really push it such as Doom Eternal. I personally am OK with the 256 because if Nintendo went higher, they would certainly upcharge me for it. I would rather invest that in a better option myself such as 1 TB micro SD.

You cannot 100% definitely assert that no Nintendo games will require an extra external download.

The console hasn't been released or detailed yet with actual, verifiable, information.

We need to keep in mind that there are literally thousands of Xbox and Playstation games that are under a couple of Gigabytes, doesn't detract from the fact that a significant portion of the most popular games are monstrous in size and will continue to grow in size.

Remember the 3DS had it's largest Cart-based game at 5GB.
The Switch has MULTIPLE games that *cannot* even be downloaded onto the base Switch or Switch Lite.
I.E:
NBA 2k4 @ 61.7GB.
NBA 2k3 @ 55.6GB.
The Witcher 3 @ 39.3GB.
Mortal Kombat 11 @ 32.5GB.
Doom Slayers Collection @ 32.3GB.

And more. 5GB to 61.7GB.

Next gen Switch -will- be larger.

Chrkeller said:

100% agreed.  Nintendo games won't be 100+ gb.  Most will be 20 gb, maybe even less.  1st party is going to be the lion's share of game sales for the S2.  It makes no sense for Nintendo to up charge everyone for the benefit of the few.  And given Nintendo's art style, 12 gb of ram is plenty for SD to work fine for those who want a bit more.  

Nintendo doesn't need to be launching a $600+ high end portable.  That isn't their audience.  

No one is saying that Nintendo should release a $600 portable.

I don't think people understand how insignificant the cost to go from 12GB to 16GB would be.

On PC (Where there is profit, not at-cost or bulk sales discount)
8GB to 16GB is a jump from $35 AUD to $59 AUD.
https://www.pccasegear.com/products/64838/team-t-force-vulcan-z-8gb-1x8gb-3200mhz-cl16-ddr4
https://www.pccasegear.com/products/64938/team-t-force-vulcan-z-16gb-1x16gb-3200mhz-cl16-ddr4-grey

12GB to 16GB would be an even smaller price jump... But the benefits would be huge and would enable even easier porting from Xbox, PC and Playstation. (And next-gen which looks to start in 2026.)

It's not like it's asking for an extra $100 in bill of materials making your $600 figure bizarre.

You are fighting an argument nobody made.  We weren't talking about internal storage nor upgrading internal storage.  We were talking about expandable storage, e.g. secondary storage.  If the limitation is hot swap and not heat, fair enough.

But calling me a liar when you didn't even know the basis of the discussion was wrong on your part.  A mod should do better.  

And I was right per the actual topic.  Portables use SD slots for secondary storage, not M2...  just like I said.  

As for the CoGs of going 12 gb to 16 gb, I have no idea what the S2 is targeting in costs already, nobody does.  So, it is hard to comment on what Nintendo could have done differently.  Nothing is even confirmed at this point.  My only point is Nintendo has to cut costs somewhere.    



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

If it's as good as ps4 it'll be darn impressive. Some of the later ps4 exclusives excluded cause they were miracles, mid gen ps4 third party is what I would imagine. The thing that interests me is if they focus on battery life more as well as new features like HDR and some form of DLSS and other ai features we've not yet seen.