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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer: "Nintendo future exists off their own hardware"

zero129 on 29 September 2023
Chrkeller said:
zero129 said:

A couble of years can you define what this means?. As it seems like your saying it will take 3-5 years for Sony ports going forward when they have been launching their newer games quicker than before. Forbidden West launched in Feb 2022.. Its launching on PC early 24 So that could be Feb or March 24, 2 years after its original release and not long after its expension and the release will be complete including everything and launching the same time the complete edition launches on PS5..

Sony are going to be getting quicker with their releases since most Sony games sell the best within the first year, they dont need to really wait any longer than that to port.

That is exactly where my mind goes.  I think ports will start being faster.  Great time to migrate to PC.  Halo Infinite, last of us, forza, God of War....  and third party and free online and easy upgrades..

I am starting to think most of them company's like Ms and Sony are now doing this since they see consoles are going to go away at some point. and everything is going to be a Store service that you can access on any device. But the thing that cant go away is PC since all them devs are going to have to use something to dev the games on meaning having a local PC port wont be a problem. The Future imo is going to be MS Store, Vs PS Store, vs Nintendo Store, vs Valve, vs epic etc all on the one system just like it is with TV and shit today.

this was impossible in the past since the hardware was so different, but imo the reason why they are going more and more to standardized hardware (Other than Nintendo but they have too with the switch) Is they can make just as much if not more by having their own store on everything with their own exclusive games to that store and selling hardware is going to be a bonus since they lose money on the hardware but in the future they wont so they wont care about pricing their consoles at a loss.



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zeldaring on 29 September 2023

Just wanna say before people call me a Sony fanboy lol. I think uncharted is boring, so is horizon and they ruined last of us 2 with the agenda.



curl-6 on 29 September 2023

I mean, there's not much more to say about Phil's actual statement, it's rubbish, especially when Nintendo is obliterating Xbox in hardware sales.
The Series will almost certainly sell less than half of the Switch, and the Xbone has already been left over 70 million behind and counting.
If he'd said this during the Wii U days that'd be one thing, but to say it at the prime of the Switch's life is hilarious. Phil should've been worrying about righting his own ship rather than taking anyone else's.



SvennoJ on 29 September 2023
zero129 said:

I am starting to think most of them company's like Ms and Sony are now doing this since they see consoles are going to go away at some point. and everything is going to be a Store service that you can access on any device. But the thing that cant go away is PC since all them devs are going to have to use something to dev the games on meaning having a local PC port wont be a problem. The Future imo is going to be MS Store, Vs PS Store, vs Nintendo Store, vs Valve, vs epic etc all on the one system just like it is with TV and shit today.

this was impossible in the past since the hardware was so different, but imo the reason why they are going more and more to standardized hardware (Other than Nintendo but they have too with the switch) Is they can make just as much if not more by having their own store on everything with their own exclusive games to that store and selling hardware is going to be a bonus since they lose money on the hardware but in the future they wont so they wont care about pricing their consoles at a loss.

People love convenience, it's not going to be great for PC either when consoles go away. It's going to be streaming service vs streaming service just like it is with TV and shit today. Publishers would love for local games to go away, no more piracy, no more refunds, no more buying from other territories, no more CD keys, and so on. And games will still first be made for the most used hardware, which will be streaming. Which means devs can cut a lot of costs making games to a server profile instead of tons of possible user configurations and different console hardware.

PC games have been 'held back' by consoles, just because consoles is where most of the money was made. Bigger margins due to walled gardens.
"The Numbers: PC and console games (total): $92.3 billion, down 2.2% year-on-year. Console games: $51.8 billion, down 4.2% year-on-year. Digital/physical PC games: $38.2 billion, up 1.8% year-on-year. Mar 16, 2023"
PC is catching up, although those numbers are for 2022, when consoles were still supply constrained
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/report-pc-and-console-global-gaming-dipped-to-923bn-in-2022

Face it, Steam pretty much cemented PC's fate by simply being too good for any competition to stand a chance. Many have tried, PC users stick with Steam no matter what. Steam is 20 years old already... Hence MS putting all their eggs in Gamepass since they can't compete with Steam with their store and can't (or rather don't feel like they can) compete with Sony with consoles. What chance do Sony and Nintendo have opening a store on PC? Can't compete, chance the deal, which is what MS is doing right now. Subscriptions and streaming will be the future.

Nintendo will stick with hardware, it works for them, I see no reason why I won't work for Nintendo in the future.

Sony should stick with consoles as well but seems rattled by what MS is doing. Going for GAAS and PS+ extra instead of sticking to what they're good at. Sony feels pretty directionless atm, bit of VR, lot of GAAS in the pipeline, Consoles with optional disc drive soon, bit of streaming, live service games, subscription service, porting to PC, remote play handheld, quickly becoming a jack of all trades, master of none.

PC is not going to replace the dedicated gaming box (consoles), streaming will be the end of consoles. Once the internet is good enough to simply pair a controller with your TV and play, consoles are done :/



Leynos on 29 September 2023
SvennoJ said:
Leynos said:

Haptic shit is a silly gimmick. Switch has it. I turned it off. I did use it for Astro's playroom then never again. All it does is break a controller faster. Always felt Rumble was stupid. So I have turned that shit off since the 90s. Making the trigger harder to push reminds me of the few games that used the analog face buttons on PS2. It sucked esp in racing games. You had to really stress your thumb on some of those. It's neat in theory but in practice gets old fast.

You can call it silly, it does help a lot while racing in GT7. I can feel what the wheels are touching, different edges provide different feedback. You can feel the tires starting to lose traction and consequently don't need that horrendous exaggerated tire squeal anymore. The 'thunk' when switching gears is very satisfying and different for what car you're driving. I don't really like the feedback on the throttle tbh, kinda interferes with input, however on the brakes it's very useful to feel ABS kicking in like in a real car. Going back to DS4 on GT Sport feels like a big step back, missing a lot of useful feedback.

In other games, yeah it's mostly a gimmick. Ok I can feel what type of ground my horse is running over, does that matter? However the haptic triggers are useful to make the distinction clear between zoom in / aim (half press) and shoot (press through). It basically turns the triggers into multiple buttons.

But in the end, I would like cheaper or more reliable controllers. Fact is, the Dualsense costs CAD 90 here ($66) and still has the same drift issues as always. It seems Sony fixed the triggers (I went through 4 DS4s playing GT Sport over the years because of L2 and R2 breaking from heavy use) but I already have 2 controllers with stick drift again.

DualSense edge is highway robbery at CAD 270, then still CAD 25 per replacement stick module. But I guess a DualSense edge plus 4 modules is about the same as 4 regular controllers. That's if nothing else breaks :/

My 8bitdo Ultimate controller is the best Switch controller there is. I love it has hall effect joysticks so no drift worries. It's time all 3 adopt Hall effect and catch up with SEGA 1996.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

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zeldaring on 29 September 2023
Leynos said:
SvennoJ said:

You can call it silly, it does help a lot while racing in GT7. I can feel what the wheels are touching, different edges provide different feedback. You can feel the tires starting to lose traction and consequently don't need that horrendous exaggerated tire squeal anymore. The 'thunk' when switching gears is very satisfying and different for what car you're driving. I don't really like the feedback on the throttle tbh, kinda interferes with input, however on the brakes it's very useful to feel ABS kicking in like in a real car. Going back to DS4 on GT Sport feels like a big step back, missing a lot of useful feedback.

In other games, yeah it's mostly a gimmick. Ok I can feel what type of ground my horse is running over, does that matter? However the haptic triggers are useful to make the distinction clear between zoom in / aim (half press) and shoot (press through). It basically turns the triggers into multiple buttons.

But in the end, I would like cheaper or more reliable controllers. Fact is, the Dualsense costs CAD 90 here ($66) and still has the same drift issues as always. It seems Sony fixed the triggers (I went through 4 DS4s playing GT Sport over the years because of L2 and R2 breaking from heavy use) but I already have 2 controllers with stick drift again.

DualSense edge is highway robbery at CAD 270, then still CAD 25 per replacement stick module. But I guess a DualSense edge plus 4 modules is about the same as 4 regular controllers. That's if nothing else breaks :/

My 8bitdo Ultimate controller is the best Switch controller there is. I love it has hall effect joysticks so no drift worries. It's time all 3 adopt Hall effect and catch up with SEGA 1996.

I think they are not using hall to get more money and keep people buying more controllers. it's disgusting practice and i don't know what happened 8th gen along with switch, but games, consoles, and accessories not going down after years and years is ridiculous, honestly hope sales slow down on all consoles  so we can gte deep discounts

Last edited by zeldaring - on 02 October 2023

Mar1217 on 03 October 2023
SvennoJ said:

Surely it's better to have your future in your own hands, on your own hardware, instead of Meta....
https://www.eurogamer.net/xbox-cloud-gaming-coming-to-meta-quest-headsets-in-december
Of course merely as a bigger, uncomfortable screen to play on, lacking HDR and dimmer visuals.

Quest 3 has pancake lenses and LCD panels to combat the light loss from pancake lenses. It does provide a bigger sweetspot (so easier to dial in and pass around) and has no pincushion distortion thus equal resolution around the screen. However no eye tracking foveated rendering (which wouldn't work with cloud streaming anyway).

So you get 25 pixels per degree across the board, equivalent to 20/48 vision.
Compare that to a 65" 4K tv viewed at the recommended seating distance of 9 ft (30 degree FOV) which gives you 128 pixels per degree (20/10 vision)
For 20/20 vision with 1440p games (before upscaling) you can sit 6 feet away from a 65" screen for 43 degree fov.

That's getting uncomfortable to watch already with pancake games.
Say you can stand a 60 degree fov screen for pancake games on Quest 3, means you're playing games in 1125x1204 resolution (or rather 1125x633 with black bars) I guess it is a match for xCloud's capabilities!

Anyway want to wear a headset to play games in lower resolution with added input lag, soon you can!
I tried flat games out on PSVR2 and nope it's not worth it, I'll use my old smaller tv instead.

However does this open a door to maybe MS getting into VR... Or is this just another gamepass advertisement.

Of course, it'd be the later. They already failed with their AR glasses. I don't see them seriously entering the market unless an actual device from whatever comes in and consumes the whole market. Otherwise, it just them trying to reach a bigger demographic as usual.

Anywoo, I really have to put into question who would actually be interested in playing flat screen games into a VR device, unless you do not possess a TV yourself.

Btb, can't wait to see the reviews for the Quest 3, I'm already on the fence to get it but I'll be patient until we get some returns on the final product 



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

SvennoJ on 03 October 2023
Mar1217 said:

Of course, it'd be the later. They already failed with their AR glasses. I don't see them seriously entering the market unless an actual device from whatever comes in and consumes the whole market. Otherwise, it just them trying to reach a bigger demographic as usual.

Anywoo, I really have to put into question who would actually be interested in playing flat screen games into a VR device, unless you do not possess a TV yourself.

Btb, can't wait to see the reviews for the Quest 3, I'm already on the fence to get it but I'll be patient until we get some returns on the final product 

Quest 3 might be the better bet than PSVR2, I'm starting to lose hope with these situations happening far too often with PSVR2 releases

https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/16ywvkp/can_you_play_all_of_project_wingman_in_vr/

Despite everything we heard coming out of Gamescom, Project Wingman's campaign is flatscreen-only with 6 extra PSVR2-specific missions. It's unfortunate that no one from the devs to today's PlayStation Blog post made that clear

Plus people say it looks worse than the VR combat missions of AC7 on PSVR1...

Of course with Quest 3 you're dependent on your PC and mods if you want more than small experiences or mobile games.
But I'll watch some reviews to see what it's capable of in standalone mode.

A lot of PSVR2 do eventually get fixed (or rather foveated rendering added) like NMS and Switchback, but it still feels like the games are just pushed out without any further thought given. Like in GT7 you can't tell what lap you're on in VR and NMS refuses to add an option to use the analog sticks for flying. Little work, big improvements. I can't stand NMS' virtual stick handling (barf) so basically can't play it :/ Had no issues playing it on PSVR1.



Mar1217 on 03 October 2023
SvennoJ said:
Mar1217 said:

Of course, it'd be the later. They already failed with their AR glasses. I don't see them seriously entering the market unless an actual device from whatever comes in and consumes the whole market. Otherwise, it just them trying to reach a bigger demographic as usual.

Anywoo, I really have to put into question who would actually be interested in playing flat screen games into a VR device, unless you do not possess a TV yourself.

Btb, can't wait to see the reviews for the Quest 3, I'm already on the fence to get it but I'll be patient until we get some returns on the final product 

Quest 3 might be the better bet than PSVR2, I'm starting to lose hope with these situations happening far too often with PSVR2 releases

https://www.reddit.com/r/PSVR/comments/16ywvkp/can_you_play_all_of_project_wingman_in_vr/

Despite everything we heard coming out of Gamescom, Project Wingman's campaign is flatscreen-only with 6 extra PSVR2-specific missions. It's unfortunate that no one from the devs to today's PlayStation Blog post made that clear

Plus people say it looks worse than the VR combat missions of AC7 on PSVR1...

Of course with Quest 3 you're dependent on your PC and mods if you want more than small experiences or mobile games.
But I'll watch some reviews to see what it's capable of in standalone mode.

A lot of PSVR2 do eventually get fixed (or rather foveated rendering added) like NMS and Switchback, but it still feels like the games are just pushed out without any further thought given. Like in GT7 you can't tell what lap you're on in VR and NMS refuses to add an option to use the analog sticks for flying. Little work, big improvements. I can't stand NMS' virtual stick handling (barf) so basically can't play it :/ Had no issues playing it on PSVR1.

Welp, the recent videos showcasing the Quest 3 graphical capabilities kinda convinced me of it's standalone worthiness. Plus I don't have a meaty laptop yet to connect it to so I'll have to wait for the PCVR experience. But if I'm to look at my VR games wishlist. I've got plenty of games/experiences to play with.

+ Asgard Wrath 2 is bound to be possibly quite the killer game for the headset. Would help if Vertigo games were able to port Vertigo 2 to it as well !



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

zero129 on 03 October 2023
Mar1217 said:
SvennoJ said:

Surely it's better to have your future in your own hands, on your own hardware, instead of Meta....
https://www.eurogamer.net/xbox-cloud-gaming-coming-to-meta-quest-headsets-in-december
Of course merely as a bigger, uncomfortable screen to play on, lacking HDR and dimmer visuals.

Quest 3 has pancake lenses and LCD panels to combat the light loss from pancake lenses. It does provide a bigger sweetspot (so easier to dial in and pass around) and has no pincushion distortion thus equal resolution around the screen. However no eye tracking foveated rendering (which wouldn't work with cloud streaming anyway).

So you get 25 pixels per degree across the board, equivalent to 20/48 vision.
Compare that to a 65" 4K tv viewed at the recommended seating distance of 9 ft (30 degree FOV) which gives you 128 pixels per degree (20/10 vision)
For 20/20 vision with 1440p games (before upscaling) you can sit 6 feet away from a 65" screen for 43 degree fov.

That's getting uncomfortable to watch already with pancake games.
Say you can stand a 60 degree fov screen for pancake games on Quest 3, means you're playing games in 1125x1204 resolution (or rather 1125x633 with black bars) I guess it is a match for xCloud's capabilities!

Anyway want to wear a headset to play games in lower resolution with added input lag, soon you can!
I tried flat games out on PSVR2 and nope it's not worth it, I'll use my old smaller tv instead.

However does this open a door to maybe MS getting into VR... Or is this just another gamepass advertisement.

Of course, it'd be the later. They already failed with their AR glasses. I don't see them seriously entering the market unless an actual device from whatever comes in and consumes the whole market. Otherwise, it just them trying to reach a bigger demographic as usual.

Anywoo, I really have to put into question who would actually be interested in playing flat screen games into a VR device, unless you do not possess a TV yourself.

Btb, can't wait to see the reviews for the Quest 3, I'm already on the fence to get it but I'll be patient until we get some returns on the final product 

Playing Flat screen games in VR is shit. However playing say 3DS games in VR is great on PC, watching 3D movies i have found to also be great on PC VR much better than my old 3D tv, The Quest 3 is going to be pretty great for me when it comes to that as i can relax back in bed and watch a 3D movie or even a normal movie on a giant screen while my gf is sleeping or doing whatever else. Sure it might not be for everyone but it is for me.