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Forums - Movies & TV - Race swapping and whitewashing

Cobretti2 said:
PortisheadBiscuit said:

People do realize these are actors right? Who cares what the fuck they look like if they’re convincing in their role.

Well it does matter in some cases. Race is not the only factor but weight, height, body type etc are factors.

Imagine a michael jackson movie if people said who cares. Lets have an 7.4 foot overweight 800 pound man who knows every move as he been impersonating michael since he was 3 and looked convincing playing that role, let's see how that pans out.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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CaptainExplosion said:

It shouldn't be done just for the sake of diversity. Really it's better to just come up with new characters of more diverse backgrounds. Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury is one of the only times changing a character's race worked, mostly because, as far as I remember, MCU Fury's race wasn't made part of the plot.

Probably helped that it was Samuel L Jackson, he's just awesome as any character!

Plus, how many people knew the comic books well enough to know the character's original race? Personally I know nothing about the comic books, so had no idea anything about the character had even changed.



Jumpin said:
Cobretti2 said:

Well it does matter in some cases. Race is not the only factor but weight, height, body type etc are factors.

Imagine a michael jackson movie if people said who cares. Lets have an 7.4 foot overweight 800 pound man who knows every move as he been impersonating michael since he was 3 and looked convincing playing that role, let's see how that pans out.

Haha I knew someone would post up the comical genius of music parodies. 



 

 

Characters should stay the race that they were conceived as.

As for the rest, it should be 100% based on the writer/creator's decision. If someone wants an all-white cast to tell an all-white story, fine. Same with all-black, all-hispanic, all-gay.... all-whatever. Or, if the writer wants a mixed-bag thing because it's good for his story, that's fine too. But it should always be a creative decision, not a political or financial one. No one should be excluded based on the color of their skin alone, or because some board of suits thinks it'll "play well" with a group of angry people on Twitter. It should be a creative decision, and then let the results be what they're going to be. Anything less, imo, is immoral. 



People are sick and tired of this crap.



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Not a fan of race swapping characters in either direction, not a fan at all. If you want more representation for minority races in film/tv/games, then don't race swap characters in established IP's, instead create original IP's or new characters within an established IP (only if it makes sense within the lore of that IP, don't pull an Amazon LOTR Rings of Power situation). And if you're adapting something that has black characters and purposefully casting the lightest skinned, heavily mixed race black people you can find in order to make the movie more palatable in China or something, that is also not cool.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 20 June 2023

JuliusHackebeil said:
the-pi-guy said:

The double standard exists, because other races were pushed out.

It's like if there are 100 seats, 1000 people proportional to the US population. 

If the world were fair, 60 of those seats would be white, 19 would be hispanic, 13 would be black, 6 would be asian, etc.

Instead it's more like 75 of those seats are white, 10 are hispanic, etc.

The reason for that double standard is to correct for the real world bias.  

To be fair about what Paatar said: people did in fact care that Ariel was played by a black person. They complained a lot. But I do think that the double standard still exists though. People would riot, if we had a white Blade or Shaft.

That's not a double standard if we look at context. Let's say there's a hypothetical world with 100 superheroes in film, 95 white, 3 hispanic and 2 black. If we go through a new round of making movies there's a much larger impact of whitewashing a single Hispanic or black character than there is of race swapping a single white character. Just because it is the same singular action in each case does not mean they should have the same response. 



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shikamaru317 said:

Not a fan of race swapping characters in either direction, not a fan at all. If you want more representation for minority races in film/tv/games, then don't race swap characters in established IP's, instead create original IP's or new characters within an established IP (only if it makes sense within the lore of that IP, don't pull an Amazon LOTR Rings of Power situation). And if you're adapting something that has black characters and purposefully casting the lightest skinned, heavily mixed race black people you can find in order to make the movie more palatable in China or something, that is also not cool.

But then not enough people will be interested for them to make money. They need to use existing IPs for the guaranteed sales from existing fans!

Meant sarcastically, because a new IP would do fine if it actually had some decent talent behind it. It's just the people usually behind stuff like this are seriously lacking in that regard.



Ka-pi96 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Not a fan of race swapping characters in either direction, not a fan at all. If you want more representation for minority races in film/tv/games, then don't race swap characters in established IP's, instead create original IP's or new characters within an established IP (only if it makes sense within the lore of that IP, don't pull an Amazon LOTR Rings of Power situation). And if you're adapting something that has black characters and purposefully casting the lightest skinned, heavily mixed race black people you can find in order to make the movie more palatable in China or something, that is also not cool.

But then not enough people will be interested for them to make money. They need to use existing IPs for the guaranteed sales from existing fans!

Meant sarcastically, because a new IP would do fine if it actually had some decent talent behind it. It's just the people usually behind stuff like this are seriously lacking in that regard.

That's actually one issue I have with race swapping: It's a really cheap way to increase inclusivity, and that's cheap with the negative meanings as well. To me, it shows that you don't really want to invest in inclusivity, you just want to get quick bang for your buck. Clearly it seems to be appreciated many, but it also seems somewhat controversial. I suppose that's not the only reason for race swapping, but it's probably one factor, and one I don't really personally appreciate.



The trend of raceswapping, genderswapping and sexuality swapping will not end soon. Especially young people think it's important that entertainment reflects the diversity of western societies. Also outrage is still attention and for media there is not really a thing like bad attention. Case in point Velma gets a second season on Max.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar