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Forums - Gaming Discussion - (Business Perspective) Does MS really need Xbox Hardware?

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Yes we need Xbox, having competition keeps the industry from becoming stale. Also in my opinion Xbox has the best online infrastructure in console gaming.



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Azzanation said:
Manlytears said:

you didn't read that the second part of what I wrote. I'll summarize:

Microsoft needs to prove that the Xbox is a platform of equal or greater value than Playstation/Nintendo, otherwise it will always be at a disadvantage. They will not be able to do this by being a third party, on the contrary, if they distribute games through the Playstation/Nintendo they will only contribute to strengthening the fame, reputation and mindshare of rivals in detriment of the Xbox brand.
In the "future" where Cloud Gaming is the main form of distribution, Google, Amazon (or other big tech) can partner/buy Playstation or Nintendo and surpass a "Weak Xbox". Microsoft shouldn't take that risk, they need to strengthen the Xbox brand and make it stand out, leaving the console business as a "loser" is a mistake.

So yeah.... putting PS in check, and making Xbox strong is MS's problem.

Completely wrong. MS being a 3rd party publisher means they will benefit from more Nintendo and Sony sales without spending billions on hardware. Games like Starfield and Halo will only sell more. MS has the foundation for the future of cloud, they own their own network, Sony will be the ones struggling when gaming moves onto servers which Sony will have to rely on MS, Amazon, Google and Apple etc. Unless Sony invest $30b+ on creating their own cloud network which is unlikely for a niche market like console gaming.

Sony doesn't necessarily have to be in the equation, just Playstation or Nintendo. Imagine the possibility of Amazon, Google, or another Big Tech, buying Playstation or Nintendo. Do you think that Xbox would be able to compete with Amazon+Playstation (discard Sony, think about the possibility of Amazon buying Playstation) or Google+Nintendo (same situation). Xbox is a weak brand, they would lose the cloud game war just like the console war. it is necessary to strengthen the Xbox brand so that future rivals do not have a chance to exploit the strength of PlayStation and Nintendo brand, understand?

Xbox needs become strong, and they can't do this as 3º party. imho, they need to continue in the console market and gain mindshare from user, they need generations of users that will think "Gaming = Xbox", just like many think "Gaming = Playstation and Nintendo"

Last edited by Manlytears - on 30 April 2023

JWeinCom said:

Azzanation said:

Not their problem.

JWeinCom said:

The question in the title asks do "we", presumably being gamers, need Microsoft. People respond with the benefits that Microsoft being in the industry has for gamers. Then they are told that Microsoft shouldn't care about any of those things.

You have conflated two questions.

1) Do gamers benefit from Microsoft being in the industry?
2) Should Microsoft, in its own best interest, stay in the gaming industry?

And when people answer the first one, you criticize them for not answering the second. Kind of unfair. And I don't think reading the OP would really help clarify that.

So, to answer them separately.

1) Yes. Competition, generally, is good for the industry. Microsoft funding Halo led to kind of an explosion in first person shooters, with GOW doing the same for third. Microsoft's XBox Live pushed Sony to better their online service, and Gamepass pushed Sony to offer a similar service which I think is a pretty good one.

2) That's really up to Microsoft. I think they see their presence in the console space as a means of getting more people into their services. For instance, get people playing on XBox Live, and even if they don't stick with consoles, they might keep on in that ecosystem. Or get them started on Gamepass and even if they don't continue on console, they will follow the service to where it goes next. For something like Gamepass, a large part of the potential market is on consoles, and I don't think that kind of product can be successful without a console presence, at least for now.

Whatever the case may be, it seems Microsoft thinks it's worth investing in. I would say that their internal teams have more data on this than you or me, so I would generally defer to them. They see a benefit here either because their current level of success is good enough to make profits in the console space, or because it leads to greater profits elsewhere.

So, that's an answer to the two separate questions you are actually asking.

It was never about the 1st point. This thread isn't about feelings and emotions of gamers. Its about if a Company sees the need to stay in the industry. I am speaking business terms not feelings.

The moment people on this site and elsewhere understand that it's not MS's problem to keep a company they don't trust in check, is not up to MS to bleed billions. The quicker we can move on from that narrative the quicker they can understand the real world.

No one is saying that's a guarantee, and that's the point. Who will? Why should MS? No one wants to eat the costs of billions on hardware unless you are market leader or Nintendo. 

If it's not appealing to anyone than its not appealing to MS. You answered your own concerns with your own posts.

This isn't about your feelings and trust, this is about weather MS wants to continue losing money on hardware when they can just rely on Sony and Nintendo. If Sony decide to screw up well that's on those who support Sony. Again not MS problem.

-


You asked "Do WE really need Xbox?"

Why on Earth would anyone answer that question by explaining what's in Microsoft's best interest? Am I Microsoft? O_o

If basically everyone is misunderstanding you in the exact same way, I think you have to consider that maybe you did a poor job communicating.

No, you just read the headline.

People are failing to see the buisness side and only see this as an emotional side. Companies dont care about your feelings. I am speaking on behave of buisness sense.

BasilZero said:
JWeinCom said:

You asked "Do WE really need Xbox?"

Why on Earth would anyone answer that question by explaining what's in Microsoft's best interest? Am I Microsoft? O_o

If basically everyone is misunderstanding you in the exact same way, I think you have to consider that maybe you did a poor job communicating.

Spot on.

I guess this will be the second user on here that I'll make sure to avoid topics from lol.

You dont have to do me any favors Bazil.

Manlytears said:
Azzanation said:

Completely wrong. MS being a 3rd party publisher means they will benefit from more Nintendo and Sony sales without spending billions on hardware. Games like Starfield and Halo will only sell more. MS has the foundation for the future of cloud, they own their own network, Sony will be the ones struggling when gaming moves onto servers which Sony will have to rely on MS, Amazon, Google and Apple etc. Unless Sony invest $30b+ on creating their own cloud network which is unlikely for a niche market like console gaming.

Sony doesn't necessarily have to be in the equation, just Playstation or Nintendo. Imagine the possibility of Amazon, Google, or another Big Tech, buying Playstation or Nintendo. Do you think that Xbox would be able to compete with Amazon+Playstation (discard Sony, think about the possibility of Amazon buying Playstation) or Google+Nintendo (same situation). Xbox is a weak brand, they would lose the cloud game war just like the console war. it is necessary to strengthen the Xbox brand so that future rivals do not have a chance to exploit the strength of PlayStation and Nintendo brand, understand?

Xbox needs become strong, and they can't do this as 3º party. imho, they need to continue in the console market and gain mindshare from user, they need generations of users that will think "Gaming = Xbox", just like many think "Gaming = Playstation and Nintendo"

3rd party Publishers are constantly making record profits via software while MS have to also dedicate losses to the billions lost on hardware.

Xbox can survive just fine as 3rd party. If PS doesnt have Xbox to compete with, they will more likely accept a 1st party GP Sub on PS increasing Xboxes audience.



Microsoft is worth 2.3 trillion dollars market cap.

They had 70 billion laying around to spend on Activision.

A few billion lost on the XBox brand here and there is not going to hurt them all that much, lets be freaking honest. For MS it's just the cost of doing business. 

So framing the question as do "we" (the general consumer) need XBox? Sure

Does MS? Well they never have, but they want to be more than just a OS company in and can afford to so ... the issue is what again? 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 30 April 2023

Azzanation said:
JWeinCom said:

You asked "Do WE really need Xbox?"

Why on Earth would anyone answer that question by explaining what's in Microsoft's best interest? Am I Microsoft? O_o

If basically everyone is misunderstanding you in the exact same way, I think you have to consider that maybe you did a poor job communicating.

No, you just read the headline.

People are failing to see the buisness side and only see this as an emotional side. Companies dont care about your feelings. I am speaking on behave of buisness sense.

 

No, I read the whole post, but it didn't help matters, because it was kind of a mess. People are going to assume that the title is intended to help them interpret the rest of the post, because that's what titles are supposed to do. So, they will interpret the post in a way that will make it consistent with the title. Because that is how titles work. If your title is an unrelated question, then either you fucked up, or are actively trying to confuse people. 

Now, I'm gonna throw something crazy at you. If you wanted people to tell you if they think it makes sense for Microsoft to stay in the console market, maybe make the title...

"Does it make sense for Microsoft to stay in the console market?"

I know, crazy to suggest you should ask the question you actually want answered, but sometimes we have to think outside the box. 



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Azzanation said:

No, you just read the headline.

You're baiting people, whether that's what you wanted or not. You've already seen it doesn't help keep the discussion on topic (if you define 'on topic' to mean 'responds to the topic set in the first post' instead of 'responds to the topic set in the title', which isn't necessarily the obviously correct choice either), yet you still keep the original title. If you really wanted the replies to change, you'd change the title or ask a mod to do it for you if you're unable to do it yourself, but you don't.



JWeinCom said:
Azzanation said:

No, you just read the headline.

People are failing to see the buisness side and only see this as an emotional side. Companies dont care about your feelings. I am speaking on behave of buisness sense.

 

No, I read the whole post, but it didn't help matters, because it was kind of a mess. People are going to assume that the title is intended to help them interpret the rest of the post, because that's what titles are supposed to do. So, they will interpret the post in a way that will make it consistent with the title. Because that is how titles work. If your title is an unrelated question, then either you fucked up, or are actively trying to confuse people. 

Now, I'm gonna throw something crazy at you. If you wanted people to tell you if they think it makes sense for Microsoft to stay in the console market, maybe make the title...

"Does it make sense for Microsoft to stay in the console market?"

I know, crazy to suggest you should ask the question you actually want answered, but sometimes we have to think outside the box. 

My post literally says, and I quote "So the question is why does MS hang around in the hardware market? Is it to keep Sony in check? Thats not their responsibility" and I get 20 posts of people saying Xbox needs to keep Sony in check. The anwser to the replies was in the original post. 

So tell me again how many people have read my post?

Zkuq said:
Azzanation said:

No, you just read the headline.

You're baiting people, whether that's what you wanted or not. You've already seen it doesn't help keep the discussion on topic (if you define 'on topic' to mean 'responds to the topic set in the first post' instead of 'responds to the topic set in the title', which isn't necessarily the obviously correct choice either), yet you still keep the original title. If you really wanted the replies to change, you'd change the title or ask a mod to do it for you if you're unable to do it yourself, but you don't.

No, people just need to read the thread and stop replying on something that was answered in the original post.



Yes, MS need Xbox, the revenue streams they help established far outpace any loss taken on hardware. There's a reason MS juggled with the idea of offering the original Xbox for free.
If MS were to shelve Xbox as hardware, this would mean automatically writing off Live Gold revenue which by itself should far outpace those early losses on hardware.
Gamepass subscription count is also still very tied to the amount of Xbox MS is able to sell so they would have to expect a huge contraction there as well.
The revenue from games will also see a similar contraction.

The idea that the market is not big enough for 3 players is also wrong. MS 2021 gaming revenue was north of $16B and was higher than Nintendo's and about 2/3 that of Sony's. No way MS intentionally shrinks this to save pennies on the dollar by stopping Xbox production.



Azzanation said:
JWeinCom said:

No, I read the whole post, but it didn't help matters, because it was kind of a mess. People are going to assume that the title is intended to help them interpret the rest of the post, because that's what titles are supposed to do. So, they will interpret the post in a way that will make it consistent with the title. Because that is how titles work. If your title is an unrelated question, then either you fucked up, or are actively trying to confuse people. 

Now, I'm gonna throw something crazy at you. If you wanted people to tell you if they think it makes sense for Microsoft to stay in the console market, maybe make the title...

"Does it make sense for Microsoft to stay in the console market?"

I know, crazy to suggest you should ask the question you actually want answered, but sometimes we have to think outside the box. 

My post literally says, and I quote "So the question is why does MS hang around in the hardware market? Is it to keep Sony in check? Thats not their responsibility" and I get 20 posts of people saying Xbox needs to keep Sony in check. The anwser to the replies was in the original post. 

So tell me again how many people have read my post?

Zkuq said:

You're baiting people, whether that's what you wanted or not. You've already seen it doesn't help keep the discussion on topic (if you define 'on topic' to mean 'responds to the topic set in the first post' instead of 'responds to the topic set in the title', which isn't necessarily the obviously correct choice either), yet you still keep the original title. If you really wanted the replies to change, you'd change the title or ask a mod to do it for you if you're unable to do it yourself, but you don't.

No, people just need to read the thread and stop replying on something that was answered in the original post.

Or YOU need to read the forum rules: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=247191#content

4. THREAD CREATION - Thread titles and content must be descriptive and on topic.

If your thread title ain't on topic with the thread's content, it is your fault!
Not the fault of the people who answer the thread title.

A) Thread Titles:

  1. Need to accurately describe the subject content
  2. Should not use deceptive hooks to lure people in
  3. Should not be used to pose simple questions


We the gamers need to take back power. If SONY or Nintendo decide to jack up their prices to 90 bucks a game because there is no competition, then it's up to US the gamers to refuse to buy from them until they lower their prices. Like the OP said, it's not Microsoft's responsibility to make sure videogame prices remain fair. It's ours.