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Forums - Gaming Discussion - (Business Perspective) Does MS really need Xbox Hardware?

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Signalstar said:

Complain that people don't bother reading his main post, then blatantly misread mine...

Nowhere in my brief post do I mention Sony.

Microsoft's Xbox initiatives provide competition to lots of companies. If I think that more competition benefits everyone (in your strange terminology - if I don't trust them without competition) then I just shouldn't support anyone in the industry then according to your silly made up platitude?

Heck, maybe the reason why I don't support Microsoft is because I don't trust them. Are you happy now?

I have read your post. You can disguise what you are saying all you want. You mention competition and Xboxs direct competitor in the hardware market is PS. What else do you mean by competition in the console space? Neo Geo?

If you don't trust Xbox great, then you are okay with seeing them exit the console hardware, it doesn't affect you. Sony will look after you.  

Leynos said:

Thank goodness Azz has come to MS rescue! Competitions job is to keep competition honest. You think PS4 and Sony come out praising used games and a $400 price tag if MS doesn't fuck up? Any billion dollar corp would take full advantage of consumers if they have no competition.

For me. 360 was the last console MS made that was interesting. They have done such a poor job making games that are that interesting and a piss poor job having consitent releases at all in the past decade.

Its not up to MS to bleed billions just to keep Sony from stuffing up. MS investors are seeing this and its literally dumb to be in the console market when they can sell more software on other hardware.  

If you don't like Xbox and its games than you lose nothing. This is the reason they will pull and just focus on releasing games as a publisher.

Zkuq said:

Have you, perhaps, stopped to wonder why you're having to repeat this? I personally suspect it might just have something to do with the title of this thread saying 'Do we really need Xbox?', which is us-centric instead of MS-centric.

Anyway, we need Xbox to keep competition healthy, but that's not a real need.

Ill say it again, its not up to MS to bleed billions to keep Sony in check. Someone else can enter the market and do that. 

Last edited by Azzanation - on 29 April 2023

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IcaroRibeiro said:

It's not our problem MS cannot release good games. If their games were good I would buy them. Their only purpose so far is to prevent Sony charging 800 USD for a PS5 and forcing Sony to keep releasing good first party games 

Except by a few JP AAA I cannot find elsewhere (and by few I really mean it, cannot think a game other than FF 16) everything else barring Sony own IPs is on Xbox or Switch. I still prefer PS5 nonetheless, because Sony first party is gold

Sony first party output uses to be mediocre, and they learned from their mistakes during 7th gen and has been release GOTY material bangers almost of yearly basis 

Sony has been decimating Xbox for a good 10 years already and Xbox software output still as bad as bad as ever.

When have MS release something remotely close to Ghost of Tsushima, The Last of Us, Spider Man, Horizon, God of War, Demon Souls, Bloodborne... ? Seems like it's a good console for people who enjoys shooters and that's about it. Where are their investment to make JRPGS viable? 

Edit: They released Ori, awesome game. However their schedule calendar do not help their case here. If games that run with low specs are day one PC releases then I don't have reason to invest 260 USD in a Series S

Right now they have tons of studios. Make them work and MS shall be fine

If they do not have interest in making quality games or just lack the talent then that's their problem. Exit gaming market altogether and leave third party studios alone. We will be better without Microsoft enterily 

Many can argue back with all your claims. When was the last time Sony made a Racer like Forza Horizon? A 2D Side Scroller like Ori, a good FPS game? Infact when did they make a good MP game? How long back do we have to look?

Sorry to say, XBox isnt going anywhere, they will continue to make games because that's where the money is. They will just not lose billions on making hardware. 



Signalstar said:

Yes we do.

More competition is good.


This.





The question in the title asks do "we", presumably being gamers, need Microsoft. People respond with the benefits that Microsoft being in the industry has for gamers. Then they are told that Microsoft shouldn't care about any of those things.

You have conflated two questions.

1) Do gamers benefit from Microsoft being in the industry?
2) Should Microsoft, in its own best interest, stay in the gaming industry?

And when people answer the first one, you criticize them for not answering the second. Kind of unfair. And I don't think reading the OP would really help clarify that.

So, to answer them separately.

1) Yes. Competition, generally, is good for the industry. Microsoft funding Halo led to kind of an explosion in first person shooters, with GOW doing the same for third. Microsoft's XBox Live pushed Sony to better their online service, and Gamepass pushed Sony to offer a similar service which I think is a pretty good one.

2) That's really up to Microsoft. I think they see their presence in the console space as a means of getting more people into their services. For instance, get people playing on XBox Live, and even if they don't stick with consoles, they might keep on in that ecosystem. Or get them started on Gamepass and even if they don't continue on console, they will follow the service to where it goes next. For something like Gamepass, a large part of the potential market is on consoles, and I don't think that kind of product can be successful without a console presence, at least for now.

Whatever the case may be, it seems Microsoft thinks it's worth investing in. I would say that their internal teams have more data on this than you or me, so I would generally defer to them. They see a benefit here either because their current level of success is good enough to make profits in the console space, or because it leads to greater profits elsewhere.

So, that's an answer to the two separate questions you are actually asking.



Okay, I'm confused. I thought the whole point about stopping the ABK deal is because having a "monopoly" would be bad for the industry and for gamers?



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Azzanation said:
Signalstar said:

Complain that people don't bother reading his main post, then blatantly misread mine...

Nowhere in my brief post do I mention Sony.

Microsoft's Xbox initiatives provide competition to lots of companies. If I think that more competition benefits everyone (in your strange terminology - if I don't trust them without competition) then I just shouldn't support anyone in the industry then according to your silly made up platitude?

Heck, maybe the reason why I don't support Microsoft is because I don't trust them. Are you happy now?

I have read your post. You can disguise what you are saying all you want. You mention competition and Xboxs direct competitor in the hardware market is PS. What else do you mean by competition in the console space? Neo Geo?

If you don't trust Xbox great, then you are okay with seeing them exit the console hardware, it doesn't affect you. Sony will look after you.  

Leynos said:

Thank goodness Azz has come to MS rescue! Competitions job is to keep competition honest. You think PS4 and Sony come out praising used games and a $400 price tag if MS doesn't fuck up? Any billion dollar corp would take full advantage of consumers if they have no competition.

For me. 360 was the last console MS made that was interesting. They have done such a poor job making games that are that interesting and a piss poor job having consitent releases at all in the past decade.

Its not up to MS to bleed billions just to keep Sony from stuffing up. MS investors are seeing this and its literally dumb to be in the console market when they can sell more software on other hardware.  

If you don't like Xbox and its games than you lose nothing. This is the reason they will pull and just focus on releasing games as a publisher.

Zkuq said:

Have you, perhaps, stopped to wonder why you're having to repeat this? I personally suspect it might just have something to do with the title of this thread saying 'Do we really need Xbox?', which is us-centric instead of MS-centric.

Anyway, we need Xbox to keep competition healthy, but that's not a real need.

Ill say it again, its not up to MS to bleed billions to keep Sony in check. Someone else can enter the market and do that. 

Who says anyone else would automatically enter the market? No one can be in this business unless they are willing to spend a few billion dollars that's just the reality of the market. 

You assume if Microsoft leaves that it's gaurunteed someone else would enter to ensure there is direct competition for Sony. I don't think that's a given at all, your whole premise even betrays that point ... who is itching to get into the industry knowing that it was bleeding MS for a bunch of a cash too. That's not very appealing for anyone. 



We just saw Google fail to enter the market. Apple failed to enter console gaming. It's not as easy as just hey we have money to make a console. Phillips & Panasonic were big Electronics companies once and they failed the console market. You also have to know the market and have the right timing. Had Sony tried in 1991 they likely flop. Sony worked with Nintendo and SEGA and learned the market plus the benefit of Nintendo and SEGA tripping over themselves in the 32-bit era. MS at least had worked with PC gaming in the 90s and worked with SEGA 90s as well. Even pre Dreamcast. MS used Dreamcast in focus test groups when developing Xbox. Nearly had a VMU and BC with DC games. The console market has proven difficult to get into and even more difficult to even have success. It's a much more exclusive market than PCs or TVs.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Manlytears said:

IMHO,
We need Xbox to put Playstation in check.
MS needs Xbox for their "cloud gaming future".

MS Azure is one of the 3 biggest and most advanced cloud providers in the world, at the same time, they are the only tech giant with a strong line of first party of video game Studios and IPs.
Xbox is here to stay, It's a gigantic advantage of MS in the cloud game market, but... This is not enough.

Xbox needs to beat Playstation, or at least become Playstation equal, not because of Sony, but because of the possibility of another big tech buying/joining forces with Playstation/Nintendo.
Just think about this possibility... Cloud gaming becomes the norm, Xbox becomes king because of Azure, while Playstation/Nintendo lags behind. Amazon or Google steps in, makes a irresistible offer and now Playstation/Nintendo have a big tech on their corner. Xbox money and Azure advantage are now gone. All that matter now is the content. Is Xbox better than Playstation/Nintendo at making games or capturing public mindshare? No? Yup, forever number 3 then.
Xbox can't become 3° party under Sony. They need to do better and Win!

Not MS's problem to keep PS in check. 

you didn't read that the second part of what I wrote. I'll summarize:

Microsoft needs to prove that the Xbox is a platform of equal or greater value than Playstation/Nintendo, otherwise it will always be at a disadvantage. They will not be able to do this by being a third party, on the contrary, if they distribute games through the Playstation/Nintendo they will only contribute to strengthening the fame, reputation and mindshare of rivals in detriment of the Xbox brand.
In the "future" where Cloud Gaming is the main form of distribution, Google, Amazon (or other big tech) can partner/buy Playstation or Nintendo and surpass a "Weak Xbox". Microsoft shouldn't take that risk, they need to strengthen the Xbox brand and make it stand out, leaving the console business as a "loser" is a mistake.

So yeah.... putting PS in check, and making Xbox strong is MS's problem.



Lets also have some perspective here

Microsoft: 2.3 trillion market cap (company value)

Amount MS was willing to pay for Activision: Just shy of 70 billion

Sony Corp market (entire company): 118 billion

Microsoft can more than afford to waste even billions of dollars on gaming if they want. They are 20x bigger than Sony is and were willing to spend 70 billion on Activision alone, that's almost the entire worth of the Sony Corporation.



Soundwave said:

Lets also have some perspective here

Microsoft: 2.3 trillion market cap (company value)

Amount MS was willing to pay for Activision: Just shy of 70 billion

Sony Corp market (entire company): 118 billion

Microsoft can more than afford to waste even billions of dollars on gaming if they want. They are 20x bigger than Sony is and were willing to spend 70 billion on Activision alone, that's almost the entire worth of the Sony Corporation.

Yet they never won a console generation.  The one with the least amount of cash is beating both of them.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!