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Forums - Politics Discussion - It's ok to be angry about Capitalism

*shrugs*

Capitalism is game, it isn't hard to play, just takes strategy. But too each their own.



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Chrkeller said:

Capitalism is game, it isn't hard to play, just takes strategy.

Yikes.



Chrkeller said:

*shrugs*

Capitalism is game, it isn't hard to play, just takes strategy. But too each their own.

One of the things that just continues to be baffling to me is how many people in the middle and even lower classes, think they're "winning at this game". So many of the people that look down on the complainers are not living any better lives than the complainers. 

This isn't Chrkeller vs the cashiers at McDonalds who "made a bad choice and aren't living a great life;" so Chrkeller should pay more in taxes to make up for their bad decisions. That has nothing to do with any anti-capitalist positions. That is in fact a bandaid for Capitalism. McDonalds doesn't pay their employees enough, because the owners of McDonald's are incentivized to pay their employees as little as possible. Because that's what Capitalism is.


When people are fighting Capitalism, they are fighting against that idea. Even the centrists liberals are fighting for "McDonald's should pay their employees more so that everyone else shouldn't have to." 

One of the main points of left wing politics, isn't "people with money should pay for the people without money", but instead "rich people should stop taking advantage of poorer people".

While we are here, this feels like an incredibly important link to bring up. Survivorship bias



the-pi-guy said:
Chrkeller said:

*shrugs*

Capitalism is game, it isn't hard to play, just takes strategy. But too each their own.

One of the things that just continues to be baffling to me is how many people in the middle and even lower classes, think they're "winning at this game". So many of the people that look down on the complainers are not living any better lives than the complainers. 

This isn't Chrkeller vs the cashiers at McDonalds who "made a bad choice and aren't living a great life;" so Chrkeller should pay more in taxes to make up for their bad decisions. That has nothing to do with any anti-capitalist positions. That is in fact a bandaid for Capitalism. McDonalds doesn't pay their employees enough, because the owners of McDonald's are incentivized to pay their employees as little as possible. Because that's what Capitalism is.


When people are fighting Capitalism, they are fighting against that idea. Even the centrists liberals are fighting for "McDonald's should pay their employees more so that everyone else shouldn't have to." 

One of the main points of left wing politics, isn't "people with money should pay for the people without money", but instead "rich people should stop taking advantage of poorer people".

While we are here, this feels like an incredibly important link to bring up. Survivorship bias

I'm not middle class.  Income percentile I'm around 95%.  

What people who complain about Capitalism don't understand is they control the market.  Don't like what McDonalds and Wal-Mart pays their employees?  Stop shopping there.  Capitalism simply provides consumers with what they want, in the US that is cheap junk which results in low wages.  Many don't like MS buying out large companies, stop buying Xbox.

The sooner people realize they control the market and the market is a reflection of their buying habits....  I know it is a hard pill to swallow and the truth hurts..  but facts are facts.

"One of the main points of left wing politics, isn't "people with money should pay for the people without money""

Lol, yeah that is complete and utter horseshit in the US.  The left are constantly trying to raise taxes on high income earners.  

Obviously we aren't going to agree.  I've said my peace.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 26 March 2023

Chrkeller said:
the-pi-guy said:

One of the things that just continues to be baffling to me is how many people in the middle and even lower classes, think they're "winning at this game". So many of the people that look down on the complainers are not living any better lives than the complainers. 

This isn't Chrkeller vs the cashiers at McDonalds who "made a bad choice and aren't living a great life;" so Chrkeller should pay more in taxes to make up for their bad decisions. That has nothing to do with any anti-capitalist positions. That is in fact a bandaid for Capitalism. McDonalds doesn't pay their employees enough, because the owners of McDonald's are incentivized to pay their employees as little as possible. Because that's what Capitalism is.


When people are fighting Capitalism, they are fighting against that idea. Even the centrists liberals are fighting for "McDonald's should pay their employees more so that everyone else shouldn't have to." 

One of the main points of left wing politics, isn't "people with money should pay for the people without money", but instead "rich people should stop taking advantage of poorer people".

While we are here, this feels like an incredibly important link to bring up. Survivorship bias

I'm not middle class.  Income percentile I'm around 95%.  

What people who complain about Capitalism don't understand is they control the market.  Don't like what McDonalds and Wal-Mart pays their employees?  Stop shopping there.  Capitalism simply provides consumers with what they want, in the US that is cheap junk which results in low wages.  Many don't like MS buying out large companies, stop buying Xbox.

The sooner people realize they control the market and the market is a reflection of their buying habits....  I know it is a hard pill to swallow and the truth hurts..  but facts are facts.

"One of the main points of left wing politics, isn't "people with money should pay for the people without money""

Lol, yeah that is complete and utter horseshit in the US.  The left are constantly trying to raise taxes on high income earners.  

Obviously we aren't going to agree.  I've said my peace.  

>What people who complain about Capitalism don't understand is they control the market. Don't like what McDonalds and Wal-Mart pays their employees?  

Except it's not that simple. 

It requires that enough people care, it requires that enough people can afford to.

If a lot of people decided to not get groceries from Walmart, they would have to get groceries somewhere else. Chances are pretty good that their only other options are another store that treats their employees even worse. 

That's the issue. Just because you have choices, doesn't mean any of them are good. 

>Lol, yeah that is complete and utter horseshit in the US. The left are constantly trying to raise taxes on high income earners.

I did not say they weren't trying to raises taxes. I was explaining the motivation. 



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mZuzek said:
Chrkeller said:

Capitalism is game, it isn't hard to play, just takes strategy.

Yikes.

I... I don't even... 



Chrkeller said:

*shrugs*

Capitalism is game, it isn't hard to play, just takes strategy. But too each their own.

You are just saying random things now. As many expressed here, some of us are doing well here and we still think things could be better for more than just "me". It's like being straight and still fight for LGBT rights. Simple. 

As for "Taxing the rich/Taxing the poor" point, I have been reading books like the Big con and Moonshot economy, and they changed my position on championing either side of the aisle. I have no problem with a small government that want to lower taxes but has a plan to raise living standards for everyone by making housing as affordable as it used to be. You can live in a high tax economy and have similar problems to the ones faced in a lower tax economy. 

Give me a government with a plan, goals, missions and I will vouch for it. All we have had for decades is reactive governments allowing problems to happen and then campaign on solving those problems. Raising taxes or lowering aren't plans, neither is  "I am for big or small" governments. You can be for a lower tax economy and fight for the less fortunate to have better lives and the viable dreams of owning a house within a reasonable timeframe (not signing slavery contracts for lives).

Relax, we're not after you. But we are not pretending the current system is working for the people, far from it. 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 26 March 2023

Rab said:

Bernie Sanders answered questions by students at Oxford 

Bernie has recently published a book "It's ok to be angry about Capitalism" 

Senator Bernie Sanders talks on the billionaire class and speaks blunt truths about the failure to address the destructive nature of a system that is fuelled by uncontrolled greed and rigidly committed to prioritizing corporate profits over the needs of ordinary citizens, few really speak to this issue that affects the planet and all of humanity in public life  

Do you agree with this observation?

What a shame he didn't make it big during the elections, free from the shackles of big donors. Mainstream media framing him is unelectable and a radical for years, then people don't end up voting for him, shocker..



Chrkeller said:

*shrugs*

Capitalism is game, it isn't hard to play, just takes strategy. But too each their own.

Chrkeller said:
the-pi-guy said:

One of the things that just continues to be baffling to me is how many people in the middle and even lower classes, think they're "winning at this game". So many of the people that look down on the complainers are not living any better lives than the complainers. 

This isn't Chrkeller vs the cashiers at McDonalds who "made a bad choice and aren't living a great life;" so Chrkeller should pay more in taxes to make up for their bad decisions. That has nothing to do with any anti-capitalist positions. That is in fact a bandaid for Capitalism. McDonalds doesn't pay their employees enough, because the owners of McDonald's are incentivized to pay their employees as little as possible. Because that's what Capitalism is.


When people are fighting Capitalism, they are fighting against that idea. Even the centrists liberals are fighting for "McDonald's should pay their employees more so that everyone else shouldn't have to." 

One of the main points of left wing politics, isn't "people with money should pay for the people without money", but instead "rich people should stop taking advantage of poorer people".

While we are here, this feels like an incredibly important link to bring up. Survivorship bias

I'm not middle class.  Income percentile I'm around 95%.  

What people who complain about Capitalism don't understand is they control the market.  Don't like what McDonalds and Wal-Mart pays their employees?  Stop shopping there.  Capitalism simply provides consumers with what they want, in the US that is cheap junk which results in low wages.  Many don't like MS buying out large companies, stop buying Xbox.

The sooner people realize they control the market and the market is a reflection of their buying habits....  I know it is a hard pill to swallow and the truth hurts..  but facts are facts.

We live in a world where even the people who agree they've benefitted greatly from capitalism, but say they don't like it, won't give up much if not a lot of what they have to make things more even or fair, with finger pointing reasons like the rich should pay. The rich (being the strong in this case) never pay and never have, since the dawn of time. That's how things have always worked in life.

We also live today in a society where those who are quite well off, yet seen as somewhat poor in western society, want more because who doesn't, and those who have more, think the lesser have never lived worse, because they don't understand the past well enough. The irony of this is it's because of recent capitalism that they think that way. Once people have it good enough, they not only forget or don't learn what real poverty is, but only ever expect more without giving much themselves. Empires have fallen partially due to this.

Way too many people today think it's simply the system that runs everything, but people made that system, and it's people who changed it along the way so far, so it's the people who will modify it further if they want things to be different, or go elsewhere if they can't get what they want. The thing is, you can't always just change the base rules. Sometimes you have to change smaller things first to be able to make a big change. It's not the system that's responsible, it's you, the people.

When you live in a system where the people are well off enough, what used to be easy seems hard now, and they won't do things the hard way unless they absolutely must. It's not a coincidence you see a similar phrase to, "things are only going to get worse before they get better" often enough on the internet, because the people who understand see what's coming. Things will have to get much worse before enough people people finally say enough is enough and do what they have to, to solve the problems, and the solutions aren't even that hard, they just seem to be because of how successful they've become due to capitalism and how easy things have become.

Why do the rich keep getting away with things they shouldn't be? Because they've made life so easy for people that the people won't go out of their way to do what's more difficult but necessary based on what they believe is right. Which is ironic because it's the rich who became rich by doing the hard things and continuing to. Musk isn't the richest person alive because he was born that way, it's because as he jokes, his companies, "convert the impossible to late". Also ironically due to capitalism.

Everything requires upkeep and maintenance. Including capitalism. Ironically, the west has been in need of the tradesmen who do that type of work for decades because it's not seen as a good career or one that can make you rich. I wonder why the capitalist ceiling is caving in and the lights are flickering?



ConservagameR said:
Chrkeller said:

*shrugs*

Capitalism is game, it isn't hard to play, just takes strategy. But too each their own.

Chrkeller said:

I'm not middle class.  Income percentile I'm around 95%.  

What people who complain about Capitalism don't understand is they control the market.  Don't like what McDonalds and Wal-Mart pays their employees?  Stop shopping there.  Capitalism simply provides consumers with what they want, in the US that is cheap junk which results in low wages.  Many don't like MS buying out large companies, stop buying Xbox.

The sooner people realize they control the market and the market is a reflection of their buying habits....  I know it is a hard pill to swallow and the truth hurts..  but facts are facts.

We live in a world where even the people who agree they've benefitted greatly from capitalism, but say they don't like it, won't give up much if not a lot of what they have to make things more even or fair, with finger pointing reasons like the rich should pay. The rich (being the strong in this case) never pay and never have, since the dawn of time. That's how things have always worked in life.

We also live today in a society where those who are quite well off, yet seen as somewhat poor in western society, want more because who doesn't, and those who have more, think the lesser have never lived worse, because they don't understand the past well enough. The irony of this is it's because of recent capitalism that they think that way. Once people have it good enough, they not only forget or don't learn what real poverty is, but only ever expect more without giving much themselves. Empires have fallen partially due to this.

Way too many people today think it's simply the system that runs everything, but people made that system, and it's people who changed it along the way so far, so it's the people who will modify it further if they want things to be different, or go elsewhere if they can't get what they want. The thing is, you can't always just change the base rules. Sometimes you have to change smaller things first to be able to make a big change. It's not the system that's responsible, it's you, the people.

When you live in a system where the people are well off enough, what used to be easy seems hard now, and they won't do things the hard way unless they absolutely must. It's not a coincidence you see a similar phrase to, "things are only going to get worse before they get better" often enough on the internet, because the people who understand see what's coming. Things will have to get much worse before enough people people finally say enough is enough and do what they have to, to solve the problems, and the solutions aren't even that hard, they just seem to be because of how successful they've become due to capitalism and how easy things have become.

Why do the rich keep getting away with things they shouldn't be? Because they've made life so easy for people that the people won't go out of their way to do what's more difficult but necessary based on what they believe is right. Which is ironic because it's the rich who became rich by doing the hard things and continuing to. Musk isn't the richest person alive because he was born that way, it's because as he jokes, his companies, "convert the impossible to late". Also ironically due to capitalism.

Everything requires upkeep and maintenance. Including capitalism. Ironically, the west has been in need of the tradesmen who do that type of work for decades because it's not seen as a good career or one that can make you rich. I wonder why the capitalist ceiling is caving in and the lights are flickering?

That's why I love Mike Rowe and his Dirty Jobs series. Highlighting the work that keeps the lights on. And the ongoing theme is, can't find any people willing to do the hard work anymore and thus our infrastructure is literally falling apart all around us. Bridges, sewers, power lines, water mains, railroad tracks, it's all in dire need of upgrades and maintenance. All these jobs pay good money, but it's hard work and people rather sip there latte while browsing the internet in their comfy office or nowadays from home.