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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Controversial character design changes in game remakes

Mandalore76 said:
Chrkeller said:

I always found this conversation intentionally over complicated. Characters should fit the game. If somebody is going into battle a string bikini is childish nonsense. It just doesn't fit the game. Joan of Arc didn't fight half naked, I'm guessing she wore armor.

haxxiy said:

People won't care if your character uses magic that breaks the laws of physics in a thousand different ways. It's when contrivances started to feel forced onto the story by the writer (say, because he's a horny mofo, or wants to appeal to one) that's where the problem resides.

Of course, though, different people will have different thresholds for what they're willing to accept in a fictional work...

If we're talking about specific depictions of Joan of Arc in games, the ones I've played (Fate Extella, Bladestorm) have been mostly tasteful.

If we're talking about this specific depiction from Bladestorm Nightmare though:

Then that is story related, because it's Joan of Arc after being corrupted by an evil entity.  It doesn't feel like a "forced contrivance" to believe that such an entity would present its possession of Joan of Arc in such a way to demoralize her own spirit and that of her comrades.

Now, if we're just talking about fighting while scantily clad in general being "childish nonsense", that's also not historically accurate.  There were people, tribes, mercenaries, what have you, who fought wearing very little or even completely naked as a show of confidence to give them an additional mental edge over their opponents.  There are plenty of women living today who say that "sexy" attire makes them feel more confident and empowered.  It's not the black and white concept some of you are making out to be.

Not sure what you are talking about.  Do tribes fight half naked?  Sure, because they have limited resources.  It isn't like they are leaving the combat gear at home.  Look at any modern army in the world...  they aren't wearing bikinis and lingerie in the battle.

And it is black/white.  Nobody, absolutely nobody, is saying females can't be sexy.  Have a game that takes place at a dance club, sure have them wear sexy outfits.  Have a game that takes place on a beach relaxing, knock yourself out with bikinis.  Those attires fit the environment.  What those attires don't fit is battlefields, fighting the zombie apocalypse, etc.  It is as simple as putting all characters (male and female) in appropriate attire that matches the game, because it adds to the atmosphere.    



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Raven said:
shikamaru317 said:

This thread is about remakes. When you are remaking a game, you shouldn't be making artistic choices that are hugely different from the original game, unless they are optional changes such as new outfits and hairstyles, alongside the original look of the character as an option. The whole point of a remake is that it is the same as the old game but updated to modern graphics quality and modern gameplay mechanics/quality of life improvements. If you want to go make sweeping changes to art design, make it a reboot instead of a remake, like Crystal Dynamics did with Tomb Raider and The Initiative+Crystal are doing with Perfect Dark. You still may piss off some people, but far less people than you would if you are calling the game a remake. The name remake comes with the expectation that it will be the same as the original game but with better graphics and updated gameplay mechanics + quality of life improvements. 

You don't get to decide what a remake is about and what the boundaries are for the artists and programmers working on it. They are free to make those artistic changes to the game whether you like it or not. There are no rules when it comes to making a game, only the ones people decide to arbitrarily set for themselves and expect everyone else to read their mind about. A remake is still a game at the end of the day and developers and artists are allowed to make the choices they want.

Don't really get the point of this post. Like, developers should be immune to criticism because they chose to do it how they wanted? No, that's just ridiculous. Of course they're free to do what they want with the game, but other people are also free to criticise them for it. There's no reason at all consumers can't decide what they expect of a game for themselves and criticise the developers if it doesn't match up.



Ka-pi96 said:
Raven said:

You don't get to decide what a remake is about and what the boundaries are for the artists and programmers working on it. They are free to make those artistic changes to the game whether you like it or not. There are no rules when it comes to making a game, only the ones people decide to arbitrarily set for themselves and expect everyone else to read their mind about. A remake is still a game at the end of the day and developers and artists are allowed to make the choices they want.

Don't really get the point of this post. Like, developers should be immune to criticism because they chose to do it how they wanted? No, that's just ridiculous. Of course they're free to do what they want with the game, but other people are also free to criticise them for it. There's no reason at all consumers can't decide what they expect of a game for themselves and criticise the developers if it doesn't match up.

If the criticism is based on this expectation of arbitrary rules of what a remake can be and then being upset with the developer for not adhering to that framework, then yes I'm going to take an issue with that because there's really nothing suggesting that's something they had to do. If someone is just not pleased with a choice a developer makes based on their own preferences I don't see any problem; just say its your preference and let that be it.

Last edited by Raven - on 08 December 2022

Sorry double post, meant to edit. 

Last edited by Raven - on 08 December 2022

Joan of Arc from Blade Storm, that design...makes me wanna get the game , not even joking.

But what is even more funny is when I went to see if I can wishlist it, apparently I already have the game on Steam lmao

I should play it.



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BasilZero said:

Joan of Arc from Blade Storm, that design...makes me wanna get the game , not even joking.

But what is even more funny is when I went to see if I can wishlist it, apparently I already have the game on Steam lmao

I should play it.

Somewhere I have a Joan of Arc game on PC from 18 years ago. Was decent but nothing special. Good character design though:



Chrkeller said:
Mandalore76 said:

I am aware of, but haven't played the Tomb Raider games.  I would counter that the environment on the mountain should be the determining factor.  Like, if she is on Mount Everest, than yeah, she should be dressed appropriately.  But, if the climate on the mountain is warm, who is to say that light attire doesn't fit "the atmosphere"?

Lara Croft, having played the games, runs around in very cold environments.  

Sorry, but nothing about her attire fits the environment.  It is just stupid.  

Tomb Raider is full of magic shit. Shorts are the last thing to get hung up on. Series isn't based on realism anyway.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

The pedophiles were really upset when during the localization of Xenoblade Chronicles X they removed a sexualizing outfit on the character Lyn—a 13 year old child.

They were especially upset at the accusation that their motivation of wanting to see a 13 year old child in sexualized clothing was because they were pedophiles.
Turns out they were actually hebephiles.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Leynos said:
Chrkeller said:

Lara Croft, having played the games, runs around in very cold environments.  

Sorry, but nothing about her attire fits the environment.  It is just stupid.  

Tomb Raider is full of magic shit. Shorts are the last thing to get hung up on. Series isn't based on realism anyway.

So you would be ok with Joel, Nathan and Link running around in a g-string?  Games aren't based on realism anyway, right?

If the opposite were happening you all would be crying foul.  

Female gamers do exist.  My daughters being some of them.  Developers being more inclusive simply increases potential sales.

It is pretty simple folks, it really is.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 09 December 2022

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Chrkeller said:
Mandalore76 said:

haxxiy said:

People won't care if your character uses magic that breaks the laws of physics in a thousand different ways. It's when contrivances started to feel forced onto the story by the writer (say, because he's a horny mofo, or wants to appeal to one) that's where the problem resides.

Of course, though, different people will have different thresholds for what they're willing to accept in a fictional work...

If we're talking about specific depictions of Joan of Arc in games, the ones I've played (Fate Extella, Bladestorm) have been mostly tasteful.

If we're talking about this specific depiction from Bladestorm Nightmare though:

Then that is story related, because it's Joan of Arc after being corrupted by an evil entity.  It doesn't feel like a "forced contrivance" to believe that such an entity would present its possession of Joan of Arc in such a way to demoralize her own spirit and that of her comrades.

Now, if we're just talking about fighting while scantily clad in general being "childish nonsense", that's also not historically accurate.  There were people, tribes, mercenaries, what have you, who fought wearing very little or even completely naked as a show of confidence to give them an additional mental edge over their opponents.  There are plenty of women living today who say that "sexy" attire makes them feel more confident and empowered.  It's not the black and white concept some of you are making out to be.

Not sure what you are talking about.  Do tribes fight half naked?  Sure, because they have limited resources.  It isn't like they are leaving the combat gear at home.  Look at any modern army in the world...  they aren't wearing bikinis and lingerie in the battle.

And it is black/white.  Nobody, absolutely nobody, is saying females can't be sexy.  Have a game that takes place at a dance club, sure have them wear sexy outfits.  Have a game that takes place on a beach relaxing, knock yourself out with bikinis.  Those attires fit the environment.  What those attires don't fit is battlefields, fighting the zombie apocalypse, etc.  It is as simple as putting all characters (male and female) in appropriate attire that matches the game, because it adds to the atmosphere.    

Again, not entirely true.  The Celts and Gauls were very much capable of and did produce helmets and padded armor to wear into battle against the Roman army.  Yet, Diororus and Polybius both stated that there were groups from both who fought naked out of confidence and for psychological warfare.  So, yes, they actually did "leave gear at home" as you put it.