By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bayonetta OG Voice Actress Calls For Boycott of Bayonetta 3

sc94597 said:

This obsession with NDA's is silly tbh. Most NDA's have a lot of unenforceable stuff in them.

For example, here (Pennsylvania, U.S) the information Taylor shared would be protected despite the NDA. If Platinum wanted to sue or countersue they'd probably have an easier time with a slander case. She lives in the U.K of course and they have weaker protections there.

I've signed probably half a dozen NDAs/non-compete agreements and probably only 10% of the stuff that was in them are enforceable (mostly if I shared company code with another company really.)

I can't speak to what kind of NDA they have signed, possibly pertaining to Japanese laws.
But if there was no risk behind revealing the information for Taylor, there presumably shouldn't be for PG either if they did the same thinga as her and just went public with it. Yet they seem to have chosen to go a roundabout way to get that information out there instead. Which is going to reach a lot fewer eyes than if they made a public statement. So it seems like there is legal reason for them not to do that.



Around the Network
Leynos said:
Machiavellian said:

The thing is none of really know any of these people.  We make huge assumptions about a person based on some junk we read about them on social media but usually that is probably less than 10% of who a person is.  I have no clue the difference between Hale or Hellena because I really do not know either one of these people.  I usually do not make assumptions on who a person is based on comments from social media more than whether I agree or disagree with their point or point of view for a particular subject.  Most times people will assume they understand everything about someone just by a few statements they make which is never a case for any individual.

 Hale has a long long long resume and has a reputation of being professional. Liked her work a long time. Not a fan of her just her work. But she has shown many times she is professional. Hellena has proven with this stunt the total opposite. Both are under an NDA and one chose to break it out of being petty.

That has nothing to do with Hale character as a person.  How many times you see popular people who appear to present a certain public appearance but internally are a complete mess.  My point is that you nor I personally have no clue who these people are.  Everyone shows a side to themselves to public and private people.  Hell people can be totally different from one subject to another depending on what it is.

The way I see it, I have heard nothing concerning either one of these 2 people and to be honest you are still making assumptions on incomplete info.  Just because bloomberg published a report from anonymous sources on a document no one can verify which could actually be doctored really is not different jumping to conclusions on someone making statements without any proof.  There is no proof here that either party is lying at this stage.  

In the end, since you never worked with either of these 2 people you have no clue who is more professional.  Hale could be a total ass and you may never hear about it because no one needed to talk about it.  

From my point of view, Hellena made a claim, now some info came out that she can either refute or drop or clarify.  Its in her ball court but nothing right now is still set unless we find ourselves in a court situation then it would all come out.



Hiku said:
sc94597 said:

This obsession with NDA's is silly tbh. Most NDA's have a lot of unenforceable stuff in them.

For example, here (Pennsylvania, U.S) the information Taylor shared would be protected despite the NDA. If Platinum wanted to sue or countersue they'd probably have an easier time with a slander case. She lives in the U.K of course and they have weaker protections there.

I've signed probably half a dozen NDAs/non-compete agreements and probably only 10% of the stuff that was in them are enforceable (mostly if I shared company code with another company really.)

I can't speak to what kind of NDA they have signed, possibly pertaining to Japanese laws.
But if there was no risk behind revealing the information for Taylor, there presumably shouldn't be for PG either if they did the same thinga as her and just went public with it. Yet they seem to have chosen to go a roundabout way to get that information out there instead. Which is going to reach a lot fewer eyes than if they made a public statement. So it seems like there is legal reason for them not to do that.

That is not how that works.  Usually an NDA prevent you from conditions both parties agree on but companies are held to a higher standard when releasing personal information from non public figures. In other words, what P did could be against the law in a lot of countries while breaking and NDA is just something enforceable if the company want to take you to court and you have to pay damages specified in the NDA for the conduct.  The 2 situations are not the same.  I have also signed multiple NDAs for contracts.  If anything in the NDA goes against, local, state or federal statues then its pretty much null.



Machiavellian said:
Leynos said:

 Hale has a long long long resume and has a reputation of being professional. Liked her work a long time. Not a fan of her just her work. But she has shown many times she is professional. Hellena has proven with this stunt the total opposite. Both are under an NDA and one chose to break it out of being petty.

That has nothing to do with Hale character as a person.  How many times you see popular people who appear to present a certain public appearance but internally are a complete mess.  My point is that you nor I personally have no clue who these people are.  Everyone shows a side to themselves to public and private people.  Hell people can be totally different from one subject to another depending on what it is.

The way I see it, I have heard nothing concerning either one of these 2 people and to be honest you are still making assumptions on incomplete info.  Just because bloomberg published a report from anonymous sources on a document no one can verify which could actually be doctored really is not different jumping to conclusions on someone making statements without any proof.  There is no proof here that either party is lying at this stage.  

In the end, since you never worked with either of these 2 people you have no clue who is more professional.  Hale could be a total ass and you may never hear about it because no one needed to talk about it.  

From my point of view, Hellena made a claim, now some info came out that she can either refute or drop or clarify.  Its in her ball court but nothing right now is still set unless we find ourselves in a court situation then it would all come out.

 I guess you missed all the VGA VA's backing Hales professionalism on twitter who have worked with her.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Machiavellian said:
Hiku said:

I can't speak to what kind of NDA they have signed, possibly pertaining to Japanese laws.
But if there was no risk behind revealing the information for Taylor, there presumably shouldn't be for PG either if they did the same thinga as her and just went public with it. Yet they seem to have chosen to go a roundabout way to get that information out there instead. Which is going to reach a lot fewer eyes than if they made a public statement. So it seems like there is legal reason for them not to do that.

That is not how that works.  Usually an NDA prevent you from conditions both parties agree on but companies are held to a higher standard when releasing personal information from non public figures. In other words, what P did could be against the law in a lot of countries while breaking and NDA is just something enforceable if the company want to take you to court and you have to pay damages specified in the NDA for the conduct.  The 2 situations are not the same.  I have also signed multiple NDAs for contracts.  If anything in the NDA goes against, local, state or federal statues then its pretty much null.

Right, but I'm still not clear on the answer for what I'm wondering here. In your response we're assuming that both parties took actions that could lead to court proceedings. And I'm not surprised companies are held to a higher stadard than individuals. But I was trying to rule out the idea that there may be no legal risk to Hellena Taylor by looking at how Platinum went about it, and posting this question: If what she did happens to be non-enforcable, with no risk of going to court over the NDA breach even if PG wanted to persue it, would a Platinum employee making the same type of video as her not also be off the hook?

For example, the PG translator for the negotiations makes a video and tells people what she was actually offered.

Because in that case it sounds as if the difference is whether or not Hellena was contracted as an employee of the company at the time she made the statement?

Last edited by Hiku - on 21 October 2022

Around the Network
Hiku said:
Machiavellian said:

That is not how that works.  Usually an NDA prevent you from conditions both parties agree on but companies are held to a higher standard when releasing personal information from non public figures. In other words, what P did could be against the law in a lot of countries while breaking and NDA is just something enforceable if the company want to take you to court and you have to pay damages specified in the NDA for the conduct.  The 2 situations are not the same.  I have also signed multiple NDAs for contracts.  If anything in the NDA goes against, local, state or federal statues then its pretty much null.

Right, but I'm still not clear on the answer for what I'm wondering here. In your response we're assuming that both parties took actions that could lead to court proceedings. And I'm not surprised companies are held to a higher stadard than individuals. But I was trying to rule out the idea that there may be no legal risk to Hellena Taylor by looking at how Platinum went about it, and posting this question: If what she did happens to be non-enforcable, with no risk of going to court over the NDA breach even if PG wanted to persue it, would a Platinum employee making the same type of video as her not be treated the same way?

For example, the PG translator for the negotiations makes a video and tells people what she was actually offered.

Because in that case it sounds as if the only difference is whether or not Hellena was contracted as an employee of the company at the time she made the statement?

I would say that saying how much you were offered would be considered a very minor offense compared with the possibility of company intentionally leaking a full contract to jornal with intention of that being used to defend itself and take out credibility of the other party even more because they are using a roundabout way, so I would say it could be included intent to break the law.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Hiku said:
Machiavellian said:

That is not how that works.  Usually an NDA prevent you from conditions both parties agree on but companies are held to a higher standard when releasing personal information from non public figures. In other words, what P did could be against the law in a lot of countries while breaking and NDA is just something enforceable if the company want to take you to court and you have to pay damages specified in the NDA for the conduct.  The 2 situations are not the same.  I have also signed multiple NDAs for contracts.  If anything in the NDA goes against, local, state or federal statues then its pretty much null.

Right, but I'm still not clear on the answer for what I'm wondering here. In your response we're assuming that both parties took actions that could lead to court proceedings. And I'm not surprised companies are held to a higher stadard than individuals. But I was trying to rule out the idea that there may be no legal risk to Hellena Taylor by looking at how Platinum went about it, and posting this question: If what she did happens to be non-enforcable, with no risk of going to court over the NDA breach even if PG wanted to persue it, would a Platinum employee making the same type of video as her not also be off the hook?

For example, the PG translator for the negotiations makes a video and tells people what she was actually offered.

Because in that case it sounds as if the difference is whether or not Hellena was contracted as an employee of the company at the time she made the statement?

In most jurisdictions sharing other people's offers is more harshly punished than sharing one's own (which in some jurisdictions, but not the U.K from what I gather) is a full legal right which an NDA can't enforceably infringe. 

Things become more complicated though if they are protecting themselves or the company's image from a lie. I doubt this would be a simple case, but Platinum probably has a higher risk in the situation.



DonFerrari said:
Hiku said:

Right, but I'm still not clear on the answer for what I'm wondering here. In your response we're assuming that both parties took actions that could lead to court proceedings. And I'm not surprised companies are held to a higher stadard than individuals. But I was trying to rule out the idea that there may be no legal risk to Hellena Taylor by looking at how Platinum went about it, and posting this question: If what she did happens to be non-enforcable, with no risk of going to court over the NDA breach even if PG wanted to persue it, would a Platinum employee making the same type of video as her not be treated the same way?

For example, the PG translator for the negotiations makes a video and tells people what she was actually offered.

Because in that case it sounds as if the only difference is whether or not Hellena was contracted as an employee of the company at the time she made the statement?

I would say that saying how much you were offered would be considered a very minor offense compared with the possibility of company intentionally leaking a full contract to jornal with intention of that being used to defend itself and take out credibility of the other party even more because they are using a roundabout way, so I would say it could be included intent to break the law.

Right but I'm wondering this under the pretence that there's no risk to Hellena, not just that her offense is minor in comparison. If there's no risk to her, would there be no risk to that PG employee?

And I don't know if this information was on any contract, because they seemingly never left the negotiation stages. The only contract in question may be the NDA, which I don't think would include the details of their conversation.

And of course, this PG emplyee would not reveal if they were instructed to do so, but just felt that they could not sit in silence and watch as the company they love is smeared with lies, or something to that effect.

Last edited by Hiku - on 21 October 2022

Hiku said:
Machiavellian said:

That is not how that works.  Usually an NDA prevent you from conditions both parties agree on but companies are held to a higher standard when releasing personal information from non public figures. In other words, what P did could be against the law in a lot of countries while breaking and NDA is just something enforceable if the company want to take you to court and you have to pay damages specified in the NDA for the conduct.  The 2 situations are not the same.  I have also signed multiple NDAs for contracts.  If anything in the NDA goes against, local, state or federal statues then its pretty much null.

Right, but I'm still not clear on the answer for what I'm wondering here. In your response we're assuming that both parties took actions that could lead to court proceedings. And I'm not surprised companies are held to a higher stadard than individuals. But I was trying to rule out the idea that there may be no legal risk to Hellena Taylor by looking at how Platinum went about it, and posting this question: If what she did happens to be non-enforcable, with no risk of going to court over the NDA breach even if PG wanted to persue it, would a Platinum employee making the same type of video as her not be treated the same way?

For example, the PG translator for the negotiations makes a video and tells people what she was actually offered.

Because in that case it sounds as if the only difference is whether or not Hellena was contracted as an employee of the company at the time she made the statement?

Don't believe they're saying it would be non-enforceable, just that it might be depending on local law. For example, if there was a part of the contract saying "you are not to say anything if you are sexually harassed by Kamiya-san" that would almost certainly be against local law everywhere. 

The main difference in your theoretical situation would be that the translator did not sign the contract. They themselves are probably not covered by the NDA with Taylor, although they probably have their own NDA with Platinum. Taylor could not sue them personally for breach of contract, probably, but Platinum could, probably.  But, Taylor could probably sue the translator for public disclosure of private facts or something along those lines (assuming for simplicity's sake that Taylor never said anything publicly about the negotiations). Or defamation if what they said was not true. 

Taylor could also probably sue Platinum games, on a theory of respondeat superior, where an employee is held liable for the actions of its employees, or if Platinum negligently supervised or trained the translator. You can try to argue that the translator was acting on behalf of platinum, that they did not do enough to make sure translators respected NDAs, or so on. There is a lot of nuance there, so it's impossible to say what would happen. 

Not sure if that answered your question, but there probably isn't a clean answer, cause there are a lot of overlapping areas of law and legal theories here. 



sc94597 said:
Hiku said:

Right, but I'm still not clear on the answer for what I'm wondering here. In your response we're assuming that both parties took actions that could lead to court proceedings. And I'm not surprised companies are held to a higher stadard than individuals. But I was trying to rule out the idea that there may be no legal risk to Hellena Taylor by looking at how Platinum went about it, and posting this question: If what she did happens to be non-enforcable, with no risk of going to court over the NDA breach even if PG wanted to persue it, would a Platinum employee making the same type of video as her not also be off the hook?

For example, the PG translator for the negotiations makes a video and tells people what she was actually offered.

Because in that case it sounds as if the difference is whether or not Hellena was contracted as an employee of the company at the time she made the statement?

In most jurisdictions sharing other people's offers is more harshly punished than sharing one's own (which in some jurisdictions, but not the U.K from what I gather) is a full legal right which an NDA can't enforceably infringe. 

Things become more complicated though if they are protecting themselves or the company's image from a lie. I doubt this would be a simple case, but Platinum probably has a higher risk in the situation.

Platinum wouldn't need to leak documents to defend itself, because in fact they harm themselves more that way, they would only need to deny Taylor's claim, it isn't in court to need to present evidence (and also doesn't have the legal protections of a case).

Hiku said:
DonFerrari said:

I would say that saying how much you were offered would be considered a very minor offense compared with the possibility of company intentionally leaking a full contract to jornal with intention of that being used to defend itself and take out credibility of the other party even more because they are using a roundabout way, so I would say it could be included intent to break the law.

Right but I'm wondering this under the pretence that there's no risk to Hellena, not just that her offense is minor in comparison. If there's no risk to her, would there be no risk to that PG employee?

And I don't know if this information was on any contract, because they seemingly never left the negotiation stages. The only contract in question may be the NDA, which I don't think would include the details of their conversation.

And of course, this PG emplyee would not reveal if they were instructed to do so, but just felt that they could not sit in silence and watch as the company they love is smeared with lies, or something to that effect.

To PG Employee probably wouldn't be a risk against Hellena (as Hellena would likely sue the company not an individual employee), the employee could them be fined, fired or sued by the company because of leaking documents.

There was possibly a MOU signed with the NDA as well. But sure we won't know the details.

If there was a judgement and the employee was discovered there wouldn't be much he could do to lie.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."