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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bayonetta OG Voice Actress Calls For Boycott of Bayonetta 3

Hiku on 21 October 2022
sc94597 said:
Hiku said:

Right, but I'm still not clear on the answer for what I'm wondering here. In your response we're assuming that both parties took actions that could lead to court proceedings. And I'm not surprised companies are held to a higher stadard than individuals. But I was trying to rule out the idea that there may be no legal risk to Hellena Taylor by looking at how Platinum went about it, and posting this question: If what she did happens to be non-enforcable, with no risk of going to court over the NDA breach even if PG wanted to persue it, would a Platinum employee making the same type of video as her not also be off the hook?

For example, the PG translator for the negotiations makes a video and tells people what she was actually offered.

Because in that case it sounds as if the difference is whether or not Hellena was contracted as an employee of the company at the time she made the statement?

In most jurisdictions sharing other people's offers is more harshly punished than sharing one's own (which in some jurisdictions, but not the U.K from what I gather) is a full legal right which an NDA can't enforceably infringe. 

Things become more complicated though if they are protecting themselves or the company's image from a lie. I doubt this would be a simple case, but Platinum probably has a higher risk in the situation.

Ah, that makes sense. 

One reason I asked if they'd also be off the hook if Hellena was, is because a punishment more harsh than nothing could still end up having to be nothing, if there's nothing enforacle about it. But I guess that would depend on the details of the NDA they signed, and/or the laws of the countries that apply.

Can you not have clauses in an NDA that say something to the effect of, if the other party discloses any of the information that falls under NDA, they relenquish any confidentiality priveledges, and the company will be in its full right to also disclose the details?

Because if that's possible, it seems like a no brainer to include that in these types of NDA's?

JWeinCom:

Don't believe they're saying it would be non-enforceable, just that it might be depending on local law. For example, if there was a part of the contract saying "you are not to say anything if you are sexually harassed by Kamiya-san" that would almost certainly be against local law everywhere. 

The main difference in your theoretical situation would be that the translator did not sign the contract. They themselves are probably not covered by the NDA with Taylor, although they probably have their own NDA with Platinum. Taylor could not sue them personally for breach of contract, probably, but Platinum could, probably.  But, Taylor could probably sue the translator for public disclosure of private facts or something along those lines (assuming for simplicity's sake that Taylor never said anything publicly about the negotiations). Or defamation if what they said was not true. 

Taylor could also probably sue Platinum games, on a theory of respondeat superior, where an employee is held liable for the actions of its employees, or if Platinum negligently supervised or trained the translator. You can try to argue that the translator was acting on behalf of platinum, that they did not do enough to make sure translators respected NDAs, or so on. There is a lot of nuance there, so it's impossible to say what would happen. 

Not sure if that answered your question, but there probably isn't a clean answer, cause there are a lot of overlapping areas of law and legal theories here. 

@JWeinCom 
Yes, I didn't expect there to be a clear answer, but I was looking for some insight like this, so thanks for that.
Though since you work in law as well, I'd ask you the same question as above.

Can you not have clauses in an NDA that say something to the effect of, if the other party discloses any of the information that falls under NDA, they relenquish any confidentiality priveledges, and the company will be in its full right to also disclose the details?

Because if that's possible, it seems like a no brainer to include that in these types of NDA's?

Last edited by Hiku - on 21 October 2022

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DonFerrari on 21 October 2022
Hiku said:
sc94597 said:

In most jurisdictions sharing other people's offers is more harshly punished than sharing one's own (which in some jurisdictions, but not the U.K from what I gather) is a full legal right which an NDA can't enforceably infringe. 

Things become more complicated though if they are protecting themselves or the company's image from a lie. I doubt this would be a simple case, but Platinum probably has a higher risk in the situation.

Ah, that makes sense. 

One reason I asked if they'd also be off the hook if Hellena was, is because a punishment more harsh than nothing could still end up having to be nothing, if there's nothing enforacle about it. But I guess that would depend on the details of the NDA they signed, and/or the laws of the countries that apply.

Can you not have clauses in an NDA that say something to the effect of, if the other party discloses any of the information that falls under NDA, they relenquish any confidentiality priveledges, and the company will be in its full right to also disclose the details?

Because if that's possible, it seems like a no brainer to include that in these types of NDA's?

JWeinCom:

Don't believe they're saying it would be non-enforceable, just that it might be depending on local law. For example, if there was a part of the contract saying "you are not to say anything if you are sexually harassed by Kamiya-san" that would almost certainly be against local law everywhere. 

The main difference in your theoretical situation would be that the translator did not sign the contract. They themselves are probably not covered by the NDA with Taylor, although they probably have their own NDA with Platinum. Taylor could not sue them personally for breach of contract, probably, but Platinum could, probably.  But, Taylor could probably sue the translator for public disclosure of private facts or something along those lines (assuming for simplicity's sake that Taylor never said anything publicly about the negotiations). Or defamation if what they said was not true. 

Taylor could also probably sue Platinum games, on a theory of respondeat superior, where an employee is held liable for the actions of its employees, or if Platinum negligently supervised or trained the translator. You can try to argue that the translator was acting on behalf of platinum, that they did not do enough to make sure translators respected NDAs, or so on. There is a lot of nuance there, so it's impossible to say what would happen. 

Not sure if that answered your question, but there probably isn't a clean answer, cause there are a lot of overlapping areas of law and legal theories here. 

@JWeinCom 
Yes, I didn't expect there to be a clear answer, but I was looking for some insight like this, so thanks for that.
Though since you work in law as well, I'd ask you the same question as above.

Can you not have clauses in an NDA that say something to the effect of, if the other party discloses any of the information that falls under NDA, they relenquish any confidentiality priveledges, and the company will be in its full right to also disclose the details?

Because if that's possible, it seems like a no brainer to include that in these types of NDA's?

There are several rights you can't sign off no matter the contract, there are clauses that are considered abusive because it privileges one side or let one side take more advantage of its power, you have group contracts, etc... and a lot of those cases a bunch of the clauses are null and void whenever brought to court and they are in the contract more to instill fear on the other party.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Vodacixi on 21 October 2022

After all that has transpired since my last comment in this thread... I have no shame in eating my words in favor of Hellena Taylor if what Bloomberg and J. Schreier say is true. Screw her if Platinum actually wanted to give her 15k+.

However, whathever ends up happening, I will not regret believing and supporting Hellena Taylor. I will always support potential victims. Specially if what they are bringing up seems legit (which I think it was). I rather be fooled a thousand times for being nice than being skeptical all the time and then having regrets.



Hiku on 21 October 2022


DonFerrari on 21 October 2022
Hiku said:

So they are acknowledging the leak?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari on 21 October 2022
Vodacixi said:

After all that has transpired since my last comment in this thread... I have no shame in eating my words in favor of Hellena Taylor if what Bloomberg and J. Schreier say is true. Screw her if Platinum actually wanted to give her 15k+.

However, whathever ends up happening, I will not regret believing and supporting Hellena Taylor. I will always support potential victims. Specially if what they are bringing up seems legit (which I think it was). I rather be fooled a thousand times for being nice than being skeptical all the time and then having regrets.

So if what Schreier says is true PG is the victm so shouldn't you regret supporting the actual perpetrator?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Vodacixi on 21 October 2022
DonFerrari said:
Vodacixi said:

After all that has transpired since my last comment in this thread... I have no shame in eating my words in favor of Hellena Taylor if what Bloomberg and J. Schreier say is true. Screw her if Platinum actually wanted to give her 15k+.

However, whathever ends up happening, I will not regret believing and supporting Hellena Taylor. I will always support potential victims. Specially if what they are bringing up seems legit (which I think it was). I rather be fooled a thousand times for being nice than being skeptical all the time and then having regrets.

So if what Schreier says is true PG is the victm so shouldn't you regret supporting the actual perpetrator?

No. I did what I thought was correct at the time. Zero regrets.

Also, PG is a company. A fairly big one. I generally don't really feel bad for companies.



DonFerrari on 21 October 2022
Vodacixi said:
DonFerrari said:

So if what Schreier says is true PG is the victm so shouldn't you regret supporting the actual perpetrator?

No. I did what I thought was correct at the time. Zero regrets.

Also, PG is a company. A fairly big one. I generally don't really feel bad for companies.

I hardly think it is the right thing to take sides and blindly believe just because someone called oneself a victim, to many reputations and even lives were lost because of false claims and accusations of crime.

And let's say the impact on sales was quite substantial and a lot of people were fired you wouldn't feel bad at all because they worked for a company?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Vodacixi on 21 October 2022
DonFerrari said:
Vodacixi said:

No. I did what I thought was correct at the time. Zero regrets.

Also, PG is a company. A fairly big one. I generally don't really feel bad for companies.

I hardly think it is the right thing to take sides and blindly believe just because someone called oneself a victim, to many reputations and even lives were lost because of false claims and accusations of crime.

I would say far more lives were destroyed or lost because people called out for help and nobody believed them or cared about them. But anyway... If someone asks me for help and I feel he/she is vulnerable, they will get my help. I don't really think "What if they are lying?". No, I just try to help. I think it's very normal. Maybe they're lying. Maybe bad stuff happens because of that lie. But I don't think I should feel bad for it. It's not my fault for believing them. It's the fault of the person who orchestrated the whole thing.

I don't know, it all seems very clear in my head xD



Leynos on 21 October 2022
Vodacixi said:
DonFerrari said:

I hardly think it is the right thing to take sides and blindly believe just because someone called oneself a victim, to many reputations and even lives were lost because of false claims and accusations of crime.

I would say far more lives were destroyed or lost because people called out for help and nobody believed them or cared about them. But anyway... If someone asks me for help and I feel he/she is vulnerable, they will get my help. I don't really think "What if they are lying?". No, I just try to help. I think it's very normal. Maybe they're lying. Maybe bad stuff happens because of that lie. But I don't think I should feel bad for it. It's not my fault for believing them. It's the fault of the person who orchestrated the whole thing.

I don't know, it all seems very clear in my head xD

As clear as swamp water.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!