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Forums - Nintendo - Bayonetta OG Voice Actress Calls For Boycott of Bayonetta 3

Shatts said:
sc94597 said:

1. She said, "they gave me an insulting offer", then talked about how she wrote a letter to Kamiya, "and it is then that they offered me $4,000." Unless you think the initial offer was higher, I don't see how it could be interpreted any other way. 

Ok I checked the third video and she did say that, I missed it. However, we still don't know what it was, and it's odd she doesn't say what the "insulting offer" was when it would help her claim more. If it was really bad, I feel like she would have said it, initial offer could well be higher than $4000 and Kamiya could have lowered the price knowing his personality, and she's only saying the $4000 to make it look worse. I'm stretching a bit but I think it's not illogical

Even then, if it were four, 4 hour days like the first Bayonetta that'd mean she would be owed $4,166 according to the pay-schedule. And while it might be less or more depending on the hours it takes, it would make sense they'd estimate based on the last game. Once the game releases we'll know for sure if the line-count is similar. But yeah, it would be really interesting to know what the initial offer was. Hopefully somebody asks her and she responds. 



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I guess I could add to my earlier comment that I think video game voice actors in general deserve better benefits and compensation for the work they do than what the reality today is. The offer Taylor received is pathetic, and people who use their talents to bring some of the most iconic characters in video games to life should be given more respect. There are countless games I've played over the years where the impact of the story, characters, or a specific moment would have been far lesser had they not featured talented actors giving them the emotional gravitas with their voices.



What Taylor should have absolutely done - when she was breaking the NDA anyway - is reveal the amount of work that she was supposed to do. Without doing that, the entire discussion here is based on the assumption that Taylor would have had at minimum just as much work as in the previous two games. I can't help but be suspicious when someone breaks an NDA, but at the same time withholds such crucial information.

It's not hard to imagine a situation where a game does a plot twist and the supposed main character then takes a backseat, making room for a new playable character that takes the spotlight. Something like that has happened before in gaming. I have no idea if something like this occurs in Bayonetta 3, but likewise, nobody else knows for sure either. Another possibility is that main character has more screentime as a younger or older version of themself and the development decided that they wanted this different age to sound different, resulting in the hiring of a different voice actor.

When I first posted in this thread, I hadn't read the linked article and simply assumed that she is entitled. Now that I've read the article, I can safely say that she is entitled. When someone complains about the working conditions and pay of a high paid position in gaming - it's blatantly obvious that voice actors get more dollars per hour than the majority of the other workforce involved in video games - talks about critical thinking and then forgets about all the crunch on the developers' side and the deplorable situations in console manufacturing, then asks for the boycott of a video game because of who got hired as a voice actor and the gulf between legality and morality in the video game business... holy cow, is this incredibly selfish. Especially because it's so oblivious to the fact that the majority of video game consumers are people who get paid a lot less than voice actors in their own job.

Yeah, she's not going to see a lot of sympathy. And rightly so. "Please boycott the game you've been looking forward to for years and donate the money you would have spent on the game to a charity instead. Do it because one voice actress thinks that she should have got paid more."

To top this all off, the final piece of the puzzle is that her alleged replacement is a higher regarded voice actress. That's not exactly the situation where observers will assume that money was at the core of this whole issue.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

KLXVER said:
sc94597 said:

So the reason why there are unions that most voice actors join is to reduce the competitiveness (which otherwise brings the price down below subsistence levels) and makes sure voice-actors can make a bare minimum wage. They negotiated that $250 /hr (or more) as they understood the opportunity costs associated with voice acting. They don't want voice acting to be only viable as a part-time position. They have a say and should have a say in remuneration.

The post I responded to which you responded to my response of, associated remuneration and value solely with what the employers think it is. But that isn't how things are in most developed countries and it certainly isn't how most people think it should be.

The logical conclusion of associating remuneration with solely the employer's idea of value is the Gilded Age. That is what we had when that was the sole consideration.

Every person who loves doing something would like to do it as a full time job. Its just not viable in many cases. Would be great if we all could just do what we love for a living. Thats just not how it is. We can dream, but thats about it.

Agreed.  I would love to be a charter captain out on the water all day, but the pay is crap so I took a different career path, one that pays far better. 



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”

I keep seeing the commentary about "breaking the NDA." Did she break an NDA? In the United States discussing one's compensation or employment contract offers is a protected legal right that NDA's can rarely infringe upon. Is this different in the U.K? 



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Entitled bitch. My job is a harder than hers, it requires way more skills than hers, it took me a long time to acquire the set of skills I have now to actually be able to do what I do and I make no where near 250 dollars an hour. I don't even like Bayonetta, but now I consider buying the game because of her.



Shatts said:
DonFerrari said:

Yep. Let's pretend 150M of the IP worth is on gaming, 50M on movie, 300M on the pachinko. Yep I don't think the other two have anything with her (if it was also the model for the char itself and sustaining the IP on her perhaps that would justify a claim, and well if it were she would certainly be better paid or at least harder to dispose of).

Also even if the IP in gaming is worth 150M that doesn't mean she deserves more money, the subject is does the work she do is worth more than what they were offering (I do think it is), and that have more to do with level of production than revenue itself.

Agree, good point. Speaking of what u mentioned. People are expecting Bayo 3 to have more lines bcuz there's multiple Bayonettas, hence ppl r assuming it will be longer than Bayonetta 1's sessions, but we can't forget Viola (the new character). In previous games, Bayonetta was the only playable character and she was the only main character. However, this time Viola is also a playable character and looks like a lot of the plot has something to do with her. If the game is the same in length, I think the assumption that Bayo 3 has more lines for Hellena could possibly be wrong. Remember, she voiced for Bayo 1 and 2. That means the pay must have been good enough for her right? I'm starting to feel like they gave an offer less or equal to what was given for Bayo 1 and 2 (since wages are decided by the amount of work). She said that it was an insult her offer was $4k, bcuz she trained for 7 years or something. (This part doesn't even matter tbh, just because an athlete trained for 7 years for example, doesn't mean they will succeed and play for a big team. Same thing for voice actors, unfortunately what matters is the skill and worth of the actor.) But anyways, she believes it's an insult. However, the 7 years trained is presumably before Bayonetta 1 right? Or is she saying she trained 7 years in between 2014-2021 in preparation of Bayonetta 3 lol. I think the latter is unbelievable. So that means I think it's good to say she was given a decent amount for Bayonetta 1 & 2 that wasn't insulting to her. But bcuz there were less lines for Bayonetta 3, she was offered less. Just a theory.

I think the only problem (that haven't been fully answered yet) is perhaps the initial offer was much lower than even the amount she was paid for Bayoneta 1, and that sure would make her not happy and when asking for what she though she was worthy the counter propose was standard payment for regular char, and what made she go out and say was she thinking she was wronged on PG messaging. But yes no real proof given so we can't fully agree with her or PG.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

So I've been reading on how Japanese licensers often attempt to ignore or skirt Sagaftra rules in anime and game dubs.

Wondering if her initial low-ball offer was a case of that, and then Kamiya looked into it and that is why they raised it to $4,000.

She is in the U.K equity union too and their negotiated rates are £300 per hour in a standard game with the first hour paid at £600.

https://www.equity.org.uk/news/2021/december/uks-first-ever-agreement-for-voice-artists-engaged-on-video-game-recordings/#:~:text=Minimum%20fees%20are%20set%20according,(under%20%C2%A30.5m).

That's nearly $5,700 for 16 hours. 

If the Bayonetta script ends up being similar in size, so much for the idea she's been offered "market rate."

Last edited by sc94597 - on 18 October 2022

sc94597 said:
KLXVER said:

Every person who loves doing something would like to do it as a full time job. Its just not viable in many cases. Would be great if we all could just do what we love for a living. Thats just not how it is. We can dream, but thats about it.

Which is irrelevant to the original point. Again, the point isn't about if it is a full-time job or not, but whether or not it is fair compensation. Fair compensation isn't determined solely by the employer, according to most people's standards in developed societies since about the mid-19th century when working class people reacted to the excesses of Capitalism. 

To suggest what is "fair' is what the employer says is fair is a far-right wing view held mostly by right-wing "libertarians" and radical market liberals/neo-liberals. Attempting to normalize that position is harmful to working people. 

Never seem any right wing, no matter how extreme, saying that the fair wage is decided solely by employer. At most I have seem they say "if you think the wage is bad don't accept the work and look for another one", and this based on free market and finite resources as if company only pay the bare minimum they will only get the worse employees as his competitors will pay a little more to get the more talented. But that is besides the point.

It just seems klxver doesn't understand the difference between being full time employee that gets his Weekly wage (based on a year wage), that can be or not enough - another discussion -, and work you hire a specialist for a short time and those usually are much much higher in cost per hour but a lot lower on yearly cost. The basic idea is that most of those specialists won't be working full time all year (if they did that VA would be making 4k*50 = 200k a year, which is more than 4 times the average you pointed). Very few VAs will be fully occupied (and those certainly would be much more than 4k a week of payment).

It is very similar to other services you hire. When you hire a plumber you won't pay 15 USD/h of the work he do, or perhaps 5 USD to solve your issue as if you would fraction the minimum wage, nope they are going to request you a minimum fee plus a hourly fee that is much higher than weekly based wages.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

It is very similar to other services you hire. When you hire a plumber you won't pay 15 USD/h of the work he do, or perhaps 5 USD to solve your issue as if you would fraction the minimum wage, nope they are going to request you a minimum fee plus a hourly fee that is much higher than weekly based wages.

That is a good analogy. My roommate is a painting contractor. When he bids a job he doesn't know exactly how long it will take. Sometimes he can make as much as $200 /hr, but that's mostly the case when he works only a few hours on the job. The end result is what the customer pays for, not how long it takes him to get there. 

Same thing here with VA's. A game is a full package that is greater than the sum of its parts. A VA might contribute very little in time, but they contribute quite a bit in value, especially in cinematic games like Bayonetta. 

People here are saying, "I don't care about VA's", but I doubt the first cutscene of the first Bayonetta game would've pulled people in if everything was text boxes or bland monotone voices from development staff.