Pretty much. One of the worst aspects of video games in general is a specific section of the audience being unbearable self-entitled idiots who think that they are owed something by the developers simply because they happen to be fans of the games. That exact same thing that's going on with Bungie happened with Ron Gilbert and Return of Monkey Island because a group of "fans" thought the rational thing to do was to send personal attacks to developers when they didn't like some aspect of the game.

https://geekculture.co/return-to-monkey-island-developer-ron-gilbert-stops-game-updates-due-to-personal-attacks/

It is, yes. But I also don't really have any sympathy for the majority of development studios* when they keep doing ridiculous crap and trying to gouge money out of people using predatory practices. Like it's not something I'm ever going to do, for obvious reasons, but if people want to send angry messages to somebody like that Activision CEO then I'm not really going to criticise them doing it either.

*I say development studios because I know a lot of individual developers don't have any say over what their company does and aren't to blame.

I wonder where the "gamers are toxic we need to protect ourselves" problem ends and the "we need an excuse to blame our problems on, let's point to toxic fans" begins.
I blame social media. It polarizes absolutely everything.

1)

But you do realise current market is vastly different compared to what it was before the videogame market crash of the 80's?. Way back then, people got sick of being flooded with knockoff games, or the same game over and over again (other factors contributed but you get the picture), which in turn had people buying less and less until shit hit the fan.

Today's market is different, because the market has you, me and all the folks on this forum, most of which are core gamers, and then you have the mobile gamers, the uber casuals and a mixture of core and casual whales. Our segment is already dwarfed and small, and some of which I imagine are very aware of the bad practices that happen within the industry, but I can tell you with certainty that the whales either do not notice or do not care, and because that is the bigger group, the bad practices continue. 

You can stand by that point, it's yours to own, I'm not trying to take away from it, my main point was calling customers "entitled", because I've seen that thrown around a lot these days like a free coupon, and half the time it's tossed around without any regards to how the customers are even treated or regarded as (y'know, whales, the word that higher ups like to call the common gamer these days).

2) Most casuals don't go out of their way to review and often at times get wrapped up in the hype or simply from word of mouth like you and I can be. You'd be surprised as to how many people out there do not always sift through reviews to look for faults, pros & cons.

Exactly.  People are buying it.  Developers are selling products that people clearly want.  Just because I don't like them, well that doesn't mean anything.  A a developer doesn't owe me anything.  I am not entitled to have the games I want.  

Anybody who buys a product without researching, that is their problem.  Researching takes less than 2 minutes and can be done on a phone.

This has been a thing since time inmemoriam. people have always bought into bad practices and bad products for centuries and it hasn't changed, so what exactly is your point to all of this?. 

I am talking about a product you and I paid for, with what was advertised not being a reality, but you seem to shrug all of this off in favour of the dev/studio/publisher and CEO.

Casuals aren't going to research. You are 41yrs old, older than me and yet you do not understand that not everyone is going to put the time of day into researching everything they buy into.

My point is don't blame developers for selling products that people buy.  Business is business.

I haven't bought any game, ever, that wasn't as advertised.  I wait for reviews, read some forum impressions and make a decison.  I own hundreds of games...  there isn't a single game I own that has any 'pay to win' BS.  I'm doing my part.

And anybody who buys a product via being too lazy to do 2 minutes of research gets what they get.

My simple message is this.  anybody who owns a 'pay to win' game is part of the problem.  Consumers dictate the market.  

So you're saying we should excuse bad practices and instead just blame the customer instead, like the whole time?.

Just because you haven't bought into anything bad doesn't make life better for all. You aren't teaching anyone here with that advice, because I just told you the other day that there are plenty of folks out there who do not have the time of day to go skimming through reviews to see if something isn't riddled with shit.

You know what would make that less of a problem though?, devs and CEO's not putting in shit practices to begin with. 

You saw what happened with the video game crash, that wasn't the consumers fault, that was entirely on the devs and studios refusing to read the room.

You become a part of that same problem when you sit idly by going "told ya so", instead of taking the time out of your day to actively teach people to avoid such things and to also voice concern, which is why we see customers having these outbursts, because unlike you, some of them are sick of seeing it permeate throughout the industry.

I don't think you've thought this advice of yours through enough, because you're telling me that it's a one way street, when it clearly is not, otherwise life would be a living shithole if it truly was a one way street for everything by that logic. 

Yeah, pretty much.  It is called economics.  Companies make products people want.  If something is selling it is because people want it.  While I may not want it, perhaps you don't either, that doesn't mean somebody else doesn't.  It isn't my place to act toxic and force a market to focus only on my wants.  

As an example if people truly hate lootboxes and MTX...  buy Nintendo (or Indie games).  Let the market know what is acceptable and what isn't with your wallet.  Companies follow money, full stop.  

Except Nintendo ends up using all these as well and defended. Amibo locked DLC for me is something that no one else would get away with.

Yeah, pretty much.  It is called economics.  Companies make products people want.  If something is selling it is because people want it.  While I may not want it, perhaps you don't either, that doesn't mean somebody else doesn't.  It isn't my place to act toxic and force a market to focus only on my wants.  

As an example if people truly hate lootboxes and MTX...  buy Nintendo (or Indie games).  Let the market know what is acceptable and what isn't with your wallet.  Companies follow money, full stop.  

Then really you are a part of the problem if you feel it's fine to offload onto customers, calling them stupid, shitting all over them and white knighting CEO's who make the scummy decisions. 

It doesn't matter what people want, it's the principle and intentional actions behind it, but I feel like that's fallen completely on your deaf ears.

It's like you can see something bad happening around you, and though you do not participate in that void, you are still more than able to call that out for what it is, instead of blocking your ears and yammering about "don't like it, don't buy it", because we know that advice doesn't completely work out unless you are of the higher number.

Bad shit can still exist and people cannot always care, and that's what I am trying to get at here, but you seem to want to excuse this willingly in order to torch another group, in order to benefit the group who are making the bad choices to begin with.

Nintendo is not a paragon of hope vs Lootboxes, so I have no idea where you're getting that from. Nintendo are the ones who ruled with a fucking iron fist in the 80's and partially the 90's. There have been stories from devs and customers alike back then, about their actions and poor decisions.

Companies always follow money, because that's what everyone needs in order to survive, it's been a known concept for countless centuries. 

I've been wasting my time trying to get you to notice that this industry is a two way street, and you're gawking back at me with "it's all in economics", when it bloody well isn't, otherwise, why the fuck are devs and CEO's fired and lambasted for making bad decisions and speaking like shitlords publicly?, like has that ever once crossed your mind?. 

The fact you want to defend those at the top for just being greedy or scummy makes me question your general ethics viewpoint.