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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Gamers can be toxic to devs and vice versa

Norion said:
Chrkeller said:

Yeah, pretty much.  It is called economics.  Companies make products people want.  If something is selling it is because people want it.  While I may not want it, perhaps you don't either, that doesn't mean somebody else doesn't.  It isn't my place to act toxic and force a market to focus only on my wants.  

As an example if people truly hate lootboxes and MTX...  buy Nintendo (or Indie games).  Let the market know what is acceptable and what isn't with your wallet.  Companies follow money, full stop.  

I think this mindset is often valid but it isn't when outright harm can happen. A gambling mechanic like lootboxes really shouldn't be in something marketed towards kids for example. That's outright preying on children to make money.

Honestly I agree with both sides. Why can't we just agree that both sides are right with conditions in mind. I think there is a line where companies or customer shouldn't cross. I personally don't know any gambling lootboxes marketed towards kids but I agree that isn't right. Those games needs an ESBR rating of M or something. It's also not right to be toxic towards companies for the smallest things or push your ideal to the market. Like I said, this is common sense that people were supposed to learn as they mature...



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Shatts said:
Norion said:

I think this mindset is often valid but it isn't when outright harm can happen. A gambling mechanic like lootboxes really shouldn't be in something marketed towards kids for example. That's outright preying on children to make money.

Honestly I agree with both sides. Why can't we just agree that both sides are right with conditions in mind. I think there is a line where companies or customer shouldn't cross. I personally don't know any gambling lootboxes marketed towards kids but I agree that isn't right. Those games needs an ESBR rating of M or something. It's also not right to be toxic towards companies for the smallest things or push your ideal to the market. Like I said, this is common sense that people were supposed to learn as they mature...

I do generally oppose the idea of governments getting involved over this sort of thing but I would accept it being required for games with them to get an 18 rating since it is ridiculous that games with them can get the lowest age rating while others get a higher rating for just a bit of violence.



Clear label and appropriate ESRB is fair.



Shatts said:
Norion said:

I think this mindset is often valid but it isn't when outright harm can happen. A gambling mechanic like lootboxes really shouldn't be in something marketed towards kids for example. That's outright preying on children to make money.

Honestly I agree with both sides. Why can't we just agree that both sides are right with conditions in mind. I think there is a line where companies or customer shouldn't cross. I personally don't know any gambling lootboxes marketed towards kids but I agree that isn't right. Those games needs an ESBR rating of M or something. It's also not right to be toxic towards companies for the smallest things or push your ideal to the market. Like I said, this is common sense that people were supposed to learn as they mature...

A lot of smartphone games have MTX and Lootboxes while being rated for anyone.

I would imagine Fifa and some other EA games have both and are rated E as well.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Chrkeller said:

I don't know what to tell you other than I stand by my position and respect your counter position.  I have nothing else to say.

That's fine, but don't spit on me and others when we call out the bad practices and the like. I'm just letting you know this here and now.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

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Chazore said:
Chrkeller said:

I don't know what to tell you other than I stand by my position and respect your counter position.  I have nothing else to say.

That's fine, but don't spit on me and others when we call out the bad practices and the like. I'm just letting you know this here and now.

I think you need to re-read this thread with an open mind.  I have said multiple times that I respect your opinion and take no issues.  Meanwhile you have questioned me constantly including questioning my education (which ironically includes an advance degree).  So in terms of "spit" I have no idea why that is directed at me.  I suggest finding a mirror.  

You simply want me to change my mind, while refusing to change yours.  

I still respect your position, we both feel what we feel.  There is no reason to be upset here my friend.



Chrkeller said:

I think you need to re-read this thread with an open mind.  I have said multiple times that I respect your opinion and take no issues.  Meanwhile you have questioned me constantly including questioning my education (which ironically includes an advance degree).  So in terms of "spit" I have no idea why that is directed at me.  I suggest finding a mirror.  

You simply want me to change my mind, while refusing to change yours.  

I still respect your position, we both feel what we feel.  There is no reason to be upset here my friend.

I said that primarily because you seem to see this as a one way street in terms of bad practices, and you say it's all our own fault, and not the fault of the one who had willingly sown the seeds to begin with. That's what I don't agree with and see as being spit on.

It's not my fault, and I want these practices to stop, but me not buying those one or two games out there is going to stop that, which is why I'd rather educate on the bad practices over time.

If I changed my mind, I'd be joining you and nothing would change (though the difference in wanting to educate others would indeed change, as I wouldn't be doing that if it was all the consumers fault). 

I'm not upset, I'm just letting you know this now, because I've a feeling we are going to confront one another sometime in the future over this topic (which does get brought up via news outlets from time to time over the years). 

Also, what I meant by "spit", was dumping all fault onto the customer.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Chrkeller said:

I think you need to re-read this thread with an open mind.  I have said multiple times that I respect your opinion and take no issues.  Meanwhile you have questioned me constantly including questioning my education (which ironically includes an advance degree).  So in terms of "spit" I have no idea why that is directed at me.  I suggest finding a mirror.  

You simply want me to change my mind, while refusing to change yours.  

I still respect your position, we both feel what we feel.  There is no reason to be upset here my friend.

I said that primarily because you seem to see this as a one way street in terms of bad practices, and you say it's all our own fault, and not the fault of the one who had willingly sown the seeds to begin with. That's what I don't agree with and see as being spit on.

It's not my fault, and I want these practices to stop, but me not buying those one or two games out there is going to stop that, which is why I'd rather educate on the bad practices over time.

If I changed my mind, I'd be joining you and nothing would change (though the difference in wanting to educate others would indeed change, as I wouldn't be doing that if it was all the consumers fault). 

I'm not upset, I'm just letting you know this now, because I've a feeling we are going to confront one another sometime in the future over this topic (which does get brought up via news outlets from time to time over the years). 

Also, what I meant by "spit", was dumping all fault onto the customer.

OK.  I'm not worried about it.  I don't intend on changing my opinion because somebody doesn't like it.  Nor do I expect anybody to change their opinion because of others. 

Agreeing to disagree, which I said 30 posts ago, isn't that difficult.

Edit
I think the good news is there appears to be a 100% alignment on proper labelling.  Put a giant label on the game that clearly indicates MTX and/or lootboxes.  I view that like an ingredient list or nutritional label.  Consumers have a right to clear labelling.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 21 July 2022

Chrkeller said:
Chazore said:

I said that primarily because you seem to see this as a one way street in terms of bad practices, and you say it's all our own fault, and not the fault of the one who had willingly sown the seeds to begin with. That's what I don't agree with and see as being spit on.

It's not my fault, and I want these practices to stop, but me not buying those one or two games out there is going to stop that, which is why I'd rather educate on the bad practices over time.

If I changed my mind, I'd be joining you and nothing would change (though the difference in wanting to educate others would indeed change, as I wouldn't be doing that if it was all the consumers fault). 

I'm not upset, I'm just letting you know this now, because I've a feeling we are going to confront one another sometime in the future over this topic (which does get brought up via news outlets from time to time over the years). 

Also, what I meant by "spit", was dumping all fault onto the customer.

OK.  I'm not worried about it.  I don't intend on changing my opinion because somebody doesn't like it.  Nor do I expect anybody to change their opinion because of others. 

Agreeing to disagree, which I said 30 posts ago, isn't that difficult.

Edit
I think the good news is there appears to be a 100% alignment on proper labelling.  Put a giant label on the game that clearly indicates MTX and/or lootboxes.  I view that like an ingredient list or nutritional label.  Consumers have a right to clear labelling.  

Yep. Misleading is company fault, but if they are clear on it and people still want to purchase well it either consumer fault or they accept/approve the practice. And in nowhere you said it was Chazore fault, you said it was a collective consumer issue if they support companies with money while complaining with mouth. Companies only listen to their wallets.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."