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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Gamers can be toxic to devs and vice versa

I think this is simple and common sense people should have learned in their puberty. The problem is, not all people are past their puberty on the internet. Companies needs us, we need them to make stuff. There needs to be an extent of respect and understanding for each other just like any relationship. Without that we are just entering a cycle of negativity and people beefing at each other.



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Chrkeller said:

I couldn't care less what you think of me nor what your random guess is as to my education.  You disagree with my position, which is fine.  All the other noise is nothing more than noise.

The fact has not changed.  If people don't buy it, developers won't make it.

But you seem to care enough to make a stand and holding ground, which tells me that you care about not wanting to be moved from the hill you chose to sit upon. 

bad practices will exist, but it is up to us to educate the masses to avoid such pitfalls and for us to also call out devs/studios/CEO's for making bad decisions, this is how you properly communicate with one another, instead of staying silent with your wallet and doing nothing. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Chrkeller said:

I couldn't care less what you think of me nor what your random guess is as to my education.  You disagree with my position, which is fine.  All the other noise is nothing more than noise.

The fact has not changed.  If people don't buy it, developers won't make it.

But you seem to care enough to make a stand and holding ground, which tells me that you care about not wanting to be moved from the hill you chose to sit upon. 

bad practices will exist, but it is up to us to educate the masses to avoid such pitfalls and for us to also call out devs/studios/CEO's for making bad decisions, this is how you properly communicate with one another, instead of staying silent with your wallet and doing nothing. 

Just giving my position based on being a product developer for over a decade including consumer research.  

I fully respect your opinion.  And no, I don't plan on changing my position, given the decade+ experience on developing products.  Consumer acceptance is a massive piece of developing products for market launch.  Companies aren't just randomly selling products without knowledge of what consumers will and will not accept.  



Chrkeller said:

Just giving my position based on being a product developer for over a decade including consumer research.  

I fully respect your opinion.  And no, I don't plan on changing my position, given the decade+ experience on developing products.  Consumer acceptance is a massive piece of developing products for market launch.  Companies aren't just randomly selling products without knowledge of what consumers will and will not accept.  

Yes, but not everyone is like you, which is why one should strive to educate others on doing more research, instead of doing nothing and spitting at them from afar.

I know you don't plan on changing your position, but at the same time, it doesn't help that you dump all problems of the industry upon consumers and not devs/CEO's for making their own bad calls.

You can have all the experience you'd like to obtain btw, but that doesn't always make you right. I've seen smart minds make terrible decisions and even at times refuse to acknowledge said bad choices, but one must learn in order to progress after all. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Chrkeller said:

Just giving my position based on being a product developer for over a decade including consumer research.  

I fully respect your opinion.  And no, I don't plan on changing my position, given the decade+ experience on developing products.  Consumer acceptance is a massive piece of developing products for market launch.  Companies aren't just randomly selling products without knowledge of what consumers will and will not accept.  

Yes, but not everyone is like you, which is why one should strive to educate others on doing more research, instead of doing nothing and spitting at them from afar.

I know you don't plan on changing your position, but at the same time, it doesn't help that you dump all problems of the industry upon consumers and not devs/CEO's for making their own bad calls.

You can have all the experience you'd like to obtain btw, but that doesn't always make you right. I've seen smart minds make terrible decisions and even at times refuse to acknowledge said bad choices, but one must learn in order to progress after all. 

I don't know what to tell you other than I stand by my position and respect your counter position.  I have nothing else to say.



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Chrkeller said:
Chazore said:

So you're saying we should excuse bad practices and instead just blame the customer instead, like the whole time?.

Yeah, pretty much.  It is called economics.  Companies make products people want.  If something is selling it is because people want it.  While I may not want it, perhaps you don't either, that doesn't mean somebody else doesn't.  It isn't my place to act toxic and force a market to focus only on my wants.  

As an example if people truly hate lootboxes and MTX...  buy Nintendo (or Indie games).  Let the market know what is acceptable and what isn't with your wallet.  Companies follow money, full stop.  

I think this mindset is often valid but it isn't when outright harm can happen. A gambling mechanic like lootboxes really shouldn't be in something marketed towards kids for example. That's outright preying on children to make money.



Norion said:
Chrkeller said:

Yeah, pretty much.  It is called economics.  Companies make products people want.  If something is selling it is because people want it.  While I may not want it, perhaps you don't either, that doesn't mean somebody else doesn't.  It isn't my place to act toxic and force a market to focus only on my wants.  

As an example if people truly hate lootboxes and MTX...  buy Nintendo (or Indie games).  Let the market know what is acceptable and what isn't with your wallet.  Companies follow money, full stop.  

I think this mindset is often valid but it isn't when outright harm can happen. A gambling mechanic like lootboxes really shouldn't be in something marketed towards kids for example. That's outright preying on children to make money.

Honestly I agree with both sides. Why can't we just agree that both sides are right with conditions in mind. I think there is a line where companies or customer shouldn't cross. I personally don't know any gambling lootboxes marketed towards kids but I agree that isn't right. Those games needs an ESBR rating of M or something. It's also not right to be toxic towards companies for the smallest things or push your ideal to the market. Like I said, this is common sense that people were supposed to learn as they mature...



Shatts said:
Norion said:

I think this mindset is often valid but it isn't when outright harm can happen. A gambling mechanic like lootboxes really shouldn't be in something marketed towards kids for example. That's outright preying on children to make money.

Honestly I agree with both sides. Why can't we just agree that both sides are right with conditions in mind. I think there is a line where companies or customer shouldn't cross. I personally don't know any gambling lootboxes marketed towards kids but I agree that isn't right. Those games needs an ESBR rating of M or something. It's also not right to be toxic towards companies for the smallest things or push your ideal to the market. Like I said, this is common sense that people were supposed to learn as they mature...

I do generally oppose the idea of governments getting involved over this sort of thing but I would accept it being required for games with them to get an 18 rating since it is ridiculous that games with them can get the lowest age rating while others get a higher rating for just a bit of violence.



Clear label and appropriate ESRB is fair.



Shatts said:
Norion said:

I think this mindset is often valid but it isn't when outright harm can happen. A gambling mechanic like lootboxes really shouldn't be in something marketed towards kids for example. That's outright preying on children to make money.

Honestly I agree with both sides. Why can't we just agree that both sides are right with conditions in mind. I think there is a line where companies or customer shouldn't cross. I personally don't know any gambling lootboxes marketed towards kids but I agree that isn't right. Those games needs an ESBR rating of M or something. It's also not right to be toxic towards companies for the smallest things or push your ideal to the market. Like I said, this is common sense that people were supposed to learn as they mature...

A lot of smartphone games have MTX and Lootboxes while being rated for anyone.

I would imagine Fifa and some other EA games have both and are rated E as well.



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