By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Gamers can be toxic to devs and vice versa

Chrkeller said:
DonFerrari said:

My point was that Nintendo isn't a haven. They are most likely late to the party as they were for updates, DLC, MP then paid MP, etc. And they do have games on smartphone that have lootboxes and MTX in case you don't know.

But sure I agree gamers elect to support the bad practices be it by not caring, fomo or whatever. Myself I don't buy dlc and other things, my plus is for the free games and discounts since I also don't play online.

Fair enough and I believe we are aligned.  I wasn't trying to paint Nintendo as perfect, but rather was saying there are plenty of MTX and lootbox free games.  I did mention Indie games as well.  I have zero issue (across Nintendo, Sony and MS) finding great games that lack MTX and lootboxes.  I don't play mobile games, but I thought it was 'free' but than charged money to unlock the full game.  Even those I don't think have MTX and lootboxes.  But I don't care, because I don't play them anyway.

And applaud your stance for not supporting poor practices.  If more gamers did as such, these practices would go away.

Yep, I also wasn't saying you were hypocrite when I said people would defend Nintendo if they did those poor decisions, it was just a take that all fanbases here and anywhere tend to defend when one company do stuff and criticize when the other do, if it sounded like criticizing you I'm sorry.

And also agree with you that there are still plenty of game without the predatory practices on them for any genre I can remember/care so no one is obligated to buy the games that do have then, and even if they purchase those games they don't need to pay for the extra predatory practices.

Yes the smartphone games I remember from Nintendo that have MTX and lootboxes/gatcha are f2p (and were good games without p2w), you couldn't pay to have full game it was just the design of gatcha like games. But since you can play perfectly fine without paying I also have no issue there and f2p needs to finance themselves someway anyway.

And also I agree it is unnaceptable for almost any situation to have a full priced game having MTX and lootboxes even more if it interferes in the playing of the game.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
Chrkeller said:

Like I said we will have to agree to disagree.  I stand by my postion under the basis that consumers grossly underestimate their power and influence on the marketplace.  Gamers are not helpless victims.  

Yes but you invite yourself to direct confrontations from people like me in the future, simply because you have chosen to lump the uneducated with the educated and spitting on them in unison, while ignoring the root cause, which no offence, makes you look like the uneducated one. 

People can be stupid, that should go without saying, and educating them should also go without saying and is something we should all be doing, to help better others against bad practices. 

Devs and ceo's are not hapless victims either. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Chrkeller said:

Like I said we will have to agree to disagree.  I stand by my postion under the basis that consumers grossly underestimate their power and influence on the marketplace.  Gamers are not helpless victims.  

Yes but you invite yourself to direct confrontations from people like me in the future, simply because you have chosen to lump the uneducated with the educated and spitting on them in unison, while ignoring the root cause, which no offence, makes you look like the uneducated one. 

People can be stupid, that should go without saying, and educating them should also go without saying and is something we should all be doing, to help better others against bad practices. 

Devs and ceo's are not hapless victims either. 

I couldn't care less what you think of me nor what your random guess is as to my education.  You disagree with my position, which is fine.  All the other noise is nothing more than noise.

The fact has not changed.  If people don't buy it, developers won't make it.



DonFerrari said:
Chrkeller said:

Fair enough and I believe we are aligned.  I wasn't trying to paint Nintendo as perfect, but rather was saying there are plenty of MTX and lootbox free games.  I did mention Indie games as well.  I have zero issue (across Nintendo, Sony and MS) finding great games that lack MTX and lootboxes.  I don't play mobile games, but I thought it was 'free' but than charged money to unlock the full game.  Even those I don't think have MTX and lootboxes.  But I don't care, because I don't play them anyway.

And applaud your stance for not supporting poor practices.  If more gamers did as such, these practices would go away.

Yep, I also wasn't saying you were hypocrite when I said people would defend Nintendo if they did those poor decisions, it was just a take that all fanbases here and anywhere tend to defend when one company do stuff and criticize when the other do, if it sounded like criticizing you I'm sorry.

And also agree with you that there are still plenty of game without the predatory practices on them for any genre I can remember/care so no one is obligated to buy the games that do have then, and even if they purchase those games they don't need to pay for the extra predatory practices.

Yes the smartphone games I remember from Nintendo that have MTX and lootboxes/gatcha are f2p (and were good games without p2w), you couldn't pay to have full game it was just the design of gatcha like games. But since you can play perfectly fine without paying I also have no issue there and f2p needs to finance themselves someway anyway.

And also I agree it is unnaceptable for almost any situation to have a full priced game having MTX and lootboxes even more if it interferes in the playing of the game.

No worries.  I thought we had a really good discussion and I certainly didn't take offense.  



I think this is simple and common sense people should have learned in their puberty. The problem is, not all people are past their puberty on the internet. Companies needs us, we need them to make stuff. There needs to be an extent of respect and understanding for each other just like any relationship. Without that we are just entering a cycle of negativity and people beefing at each other.



Around the Network
Chrkeller said:

I couldn't care less what you think of me nor what your random guess is as to my education.  You disagree with my position, which is fine.  All the other noise is nothing more than noise.

The fact has not changed.  If people don't buy it, developers won't make it.

But you seem to care enough to make a stand and holding ground, which tells me that you care about not wanting to be moved from the hill you chose to sit upon. 

bad practices will exist, but it is up to us to educate the masses to avoid such pitfalls and for us to also call out devs/studios/CEO's for making bad decisions, this is how you properly communicate with one another, instead of staying silent with your wallet and doing nothing. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Chrkeller said:

I couldn't care less what you think of me nor what your random guess is as to my education.  You disagree with my position, which is fine.  All the other noise is nothing more than noise.

The fact has not changed.  If people don't buy it, developers won't make it.

But you seem to care enough to make a stand and holding ground, which tells me that you care about not wanting to be moved from the hill you chose to sit upon. 

bad practices will exist, but it is up to us to educate the masses to avoid such pitfalls and for us to also call out devs/studios/CEO's for making bad decisions, this is how you properly communicate with one another, instead of staying silent with your wallet and doing nothing. 

Just giving my position based on being a product developer for over a decade including consumer research.  

I fully respect your opinion.  And no, I don't plan on changing my position, given the decade+ experience on developing products.  Consumer acceptance is a massive piece of developing products for market launch.  Companies aren't just randomly selling products without knowledge of what consumers will and will not accept.  



Chrkeller said:

Just giving my position based on being a product developer for over a decade including consumer research.  

I fully respect your opinion.  And no, I don't plan on changing my position, given the decade+ experience on developing products.  Consumer acceptance is a massive piece of developing products for market launch.  Companies aren't just randomly selling products without knowledge of what consumers will and will not accept.  

Yes, but not everyone is like you, which is why one should strive to educate others on doing more research, instead of doing nothing and spitting at them from afar.

I know you don't plan on changing your position, but at the same time, it doesn't help that you dump all problems of the industry upon consumers and not devs/CEO's for making their own bad calls.

You can have all the experience you'd like to obtain btw, but that doesn't always make you right. I've seen smart minds make terrible decisions and even at times refuse to acknowledge said bad choices, but one must learn in order to progress after all. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Chazore said:
Chrkeller said:

Just giving my position based on being a product developer for over a decade including consumer research.  

I fully respect your opinion.  And no, I don't plan on changing my position, given the decade+ experience on developing products.  Consumer acceptance is a massive piece of developing products for market launch.  Companies aren't just randomly selling products without knowledge of what consumers will and will not accept.  

Yes, but not everyone is like you, which is why one should strive to educate others on doing more research, instead of doing nothing and spitting at them from afar.

I know you don't plan on changing your position, but at the same time, it doesn't help that you dump all problems of the industry upon consumers and not devs/CEO's for making their own bad calls.

You can have all the experience you'd like to obtain btw, but that doesn't always make you right. I've seen smart minds make terrible decisions and even at times refuse to acknowledge said bad choices, but one must learn in order to progress after all. 

I don't know what to tell you other than I stand by my position and respect your counter position.  I have nothing else to say.



Chrkeller said:
Chazore said:

So you're saying we should excuse bad practices and instead just blame the customer instead, like the whole time?.

Yeah, pretty much.  It is called economics.  Companies make products people want.  If something is selling it is because people want it.  While I may not want it, perhaps you don't either, that doesn't mean somebody else doesn't.  It isn't my place to act toxic and force a market to focus only on my wants.  

As an example if people truly hate lootboxes and MTX...  buy Nintendo (or Indie games).  Let the market know what is acceptable and what isn't with your wallet.  Companies follow money, full stop.  

I think this mindset is often valid but it isn't when outright harm can happen. A gambling mechanic like lootboxes really shouldn't be in something marketed towards kids for example. That's outright preying on children to make money.