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Forums - Sony Discussion - Days Gone vs Ghost of Tsushima, sales vs expectations of Sony

twintail said:
Qwark said:

Even if Days Gone made enough money, we don't know how the sequel was actually pitched, which is also something to consider. Besides it's not like Sony is closing the studio. They are making a new open world game and they definitely use some of the tech and experience they got while making Days Gone.

Pretty much the most important piece of info we know nothing about.

Yes a sequel was pitched, John Garvin the Creative director and lead writer on Days Gone said the lack of full price sales was to blame for the lack of a sequel.   

We need to remember that World Wide Studios base their greenlighting of sequels off multiple factors and criteria some that we are aware of but also lesser known factors,I will badly demonstrate this by using this hypothetical scenario, where Game A does well and sells x amount and a sequel is greenlit then Game B does well and sells a similar amount but doesn't get an immediate sequel, questions are raised and the answer turns out to be simply one of bad timing where game B fell into a scenario where there was a scheduling squeeze and Game A had taken the last remaining opportunity, so in the meantime game B may either be put on to help with other work or rather than wait in hope for a sequel spend the time on pitching a new game, but no matter the outcome and the reasoning behind it, to the public it is still a black and white case that doesn't add up.

returning to some of those other factors, we have factors like how well the launch phase went when the games are selling at full price, then there's return on investment not just singularly but also against other games because the investment pool being finite means that there is competition for that money , sure the blockbuster games subsides that pool enabling more games to be made Shuey when head of WWS said  that besides their development costs being returned to the pool an amount of profit was also put back into development from each AAA block buster provided funding for around 7 other games per blockbuster but the pool is still finite. so in the end the simple fact is the reason for games being greenlit or not isn't always black and white.

Last edited by mjk45 - on 06 January 2022

Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

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On David Jaffe's livestream, Jeff Ross said the local management at Sony Bend didn't want to do a sequel to Days Gone, and they didn't even push the pitch to the higher ups at SIE. It seems like the expansion of Sony Bend created tension between the old guard and new talent, which caused many of the original team to depart the studio after the release of Days Gone.



Considering the high sales of the game, I think Sony should give a sequel reconsideration. The fact that 9+ million people have played/bought the game means that the sequel could do a lot better at the full retail price than the first game did.



twintail said:
ironmanDX said:

Agreed but it's what I had at the top of my head.

Tomb raider is a better one. Sold 10 million, square weren't happy. Made a trilody anyway. 

What about the rest of the post?

Another apples to oranges example. Both Mass Effect and Tomb Raider are big existing IPs which could easily continue. Days Gone is a brand new IP. Very big difference. 

There's also no way that 8 million sales means an 8 million userbase, unless you expect everyone who bought the game to be have loved it enough for a sequel, which they may or may not even have bought at full price.

Maybe a DG2 could have been something big. But that pitch was back in 2019 when commercial and critical reception wasn't incredibly hot. With the game having a 6 year development cycle from a studio whose previous console release was a PSP to PS2 port 9 years prior, it's not hard to see why Sony may not have been very gung ho about jumping into a sequel.

Not like it matters: they're working on a new open world IP so Sony clearly has faith that they can deliver with a clean slate.

I already agreed to the point of the playerbase, which appears to be over 9 million. 

I said if only 4 million bought it at full or near full price it surely would be enough to warrant a sequel. 

Tomb Raider was a milked franchise that had gone through a rough decade by the time the reboot come out. It was starting from a worse place than a new ip. Sony new IPs, especially the 3rd person story driven ones are almost always good sellers. Been that way since the ps3.

So yeah... The comparison is surely in the favour of Days Gone. 



6 years of development time and sells less than a lot of their other AAA titles. That and being on two full platforms on top of getting mixed reviews. A large sum of  sales were also at discounted prices. While GoT has stay pretty much remained close to full price since launch; on PS platforms and will sell more throughout the duration of the PS5 life and when it eventually makes it way to PC. And has good critical acclaim.

For Sony it probably made sense to just drop it and I can't really blame them. Days Gone released buggy and lacks the polish of what people expect from Sony first party. Imo I'm glad as I wasn't fond of the Days Gone and much prefer that Bend worked on something else - which they are.

Last edited by hinch - on 07 January 2022

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twintail said:
PotentHerbs said:

On David Jaffe's livestream, Jeff Ross said the local management at Sony Bend didn't want to do a sequel to Days Gone, and they didn't even push the pitch to the higher ups at SIE. It seems like the expansion of Sony Bend created tension between the old guard and new talent, which caused many of the original team to depart the studio after the release of Days Gone.

Well John Garvin was let go because he couldn't adjust to having a bigger team. He admitted himself in his interview with Jaffe that he would lose his temper often, and that this didn't change even after undergoing training to control himself better. 

It's unfortunate, but Bend couldn't remain a small team forever. 

Can't be small and keep doing big AAA, even more when you see the results you were getting before increasing and improving.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Kyuu said:

Jeff Ross is a clown confirmed.

Seems like a buffon that when what he wanted didn`t got its way decide to complain to anyone wishing to listen.

And from what we have been hearing David Jaffe have been doing the same after he left Santa Monica.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

eh, good for them I guess, or not, i dunno. Days Gone was hella boring, generic, and uninspired. Game is better off with no sequel.



TheTitaniumNub said:

eh, good for them I guess, or not, i dunno. Days Gone was hella boring, generic, and uninspired. Game is better off with no sequel.

Disagree with your opinion on the game =p but agree with no need for sequel.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Leynos said:

We live in a stupid era of gaming. On one hand, 800K of SMTV is a massive success. 8 million of this game is a failure to Sony. While this is more of a reason why I think Meta is a cancer and should be abolished. (tho DG seemed like the most mediocre generic game out there) but Meta is more harmful than anything. A lot of good games suffer in sales because of a stupid number. Then we have other AAA devs saying certain games that sold in the millions were a sales failure.

Kill Metacritic as it's a useless site.
Publishers need to not dump so much money into one game. How we get Anthems and Avengers. Put some of that into smaller projects and then 1 million will be a success. Not saying you can't have larger projects but they don't need the inflated budgets they often do have.

Noooo. We here on a sales site should know better.

Development cost: SMTV did not cost anywhere near as much as Days Gone. A game that took 2 years to development a sells 1.5mill is great. A game that took 5 years to make and only sells 3mill ... eh. Even if its profitable I'm more was expected for a game eating that much time and money up.

Time to make back cost/reach: SMT4 a niche game, came out in 2013 and it was announced in summer 2015 that game hit 600k. SMTV5 still a niche game, did that and more in 2 months. Days Gone, based on the popular game elements(open world, zombies) was most likely expected to do its numbers now much sooner than it actually did not counting any discounts.

Reminds of me Mega Man ZX: Advent - Keiji Inafune made public announcement stating that in order for the ZX series to continue, Advent needed to sell 100k copies and it did, sooo what where's the sequel? He meant it needed to be done before CAP's next final report. There was specific time period.