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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Power On: The Story of Xbox

mjk45 said:
EricHiggin said:

If XB1 took the same kind of step that PS3 took, beyond gaming, then ya, PS4 and now PS5 being far closer to PC's in their capability wouldn't be out of the question by any means. 

Maybe SNY would've stopped at media and left PC's alone, but that seems kinda unlikely. Where would they have grown from that point? MS got into console, entertainment, digital online (bundle) services, so why wouldn't SNY had tried to offer what PC OS and software could?

Nin got too cocky with the Wii, which led to the Wii U, that was a marketing disaster, which didn't turn out great.

SNY got too cocky about becoming the future of computing, starting with PS2 but mostly with PS3, which didn't turn out great.

MS got too cocky with 360, then trying to do what PS3 did with XB1, though cheaper, yet at the gamers expense, which didn't turn out great.

I guess the real question is, could SNY actually have succeeded in an all in one computing device even if MS didn't enter the console market?

Based on the outcome of PS3 and XB1, was it really the push beyond gaming and pricing that was the problem? Without MS, would SNY have had to retreat to a PS4 like gaming focused console regardless?

I'd say if SNY were to have pushed for that, without MS in the picture, they would've likely had little choice but to offer multiple tiered SKU's like MS has started to do.

MS move into consoles didn't stop the rise of the all in one device replacing the PC it simply wasn't going to happen in that form it was a combination of Bill's crystal ball gazing being off and him believing Kens hyperbolic statements about the PS2 and it's multimedia capabilities while the public didn't follow on till it received a more compelling case and that arrived with smart phones.

mjk45 said:
Azzanation said:

I haven't seen the documentary, however it wasn't just Sony that pushed MS into the Console market. They were in it way before Sony and even Sega. They were pushed out by the ever popular Commadore 64 which dominated the market at the time. MS always wanted to stay in the market and the moment Sega dropped out, they saw their prime opportunity. Sega was helping drive MS software and without Sega, no one was doing it in the console industry. The Xbox was created in house so they don't have to rely on outsourcing their software. This explains why MS wanted to buy Nintendo etc. The Xbox named after Direct X was Microsoft's return to the industry.

Yes they supplied software, but from a hardware standpoint it was Bills fear of the one machine to rule them an all in every home that opened the door but those at MS at the time advocating for MS owned hardware Xbox, not to dissimilar to those early advocates at Sony would have helped it gain impetus.

We need to remember this was a scenario that held sway among many in the tech industry at that time where smart devices were still a fair way from being realised.

Well the documentary isn't exactly the most in depth or accurate. MS surely took their sweet time. It's not like money was the problem.

XBOX wasn't created overnight. They were planning years before Sega (Dreamcast) was down and out of the hardware scene.

So XB GP isn't on devices other than XB consoles? MS doesn't want (day 1 XBGS) GP outsourced to as many third party devices as possible?

Which makes you wonder if MS planned on having the only machine to rule them all eventually as well? Why would they assume that about only SNY? Just because they somewhat confidently said something implying that? Everyone says a lot of things, seemingly confident, and then don't do them, or even 180.

Now if Apple had followed through with their console ambitions, then MS entering the market would make way more sense. Not that it made zero sense to begin with, just not as much sense. Which is likely why they were hesitant initially. Instead Apple focused heavily on smart phones, competing with BB, and kept MS from ever getting a foothold in that market.



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SegaHeart said:

What the ? Hideo kojima first game ever Metal gear solid was first created on Microsoft first console MSX2 in 1987 I didn't know that? I have many questions? Why did Microsoft abadonned their MSX consoles? Also Why is Microsoft ignoring the MSX exsistance? and say Xbox was their first console ? MSX sold 7 million in japan alone it outsold N64 in Japan and xbox 360 and Xbox original and Xbox One combined  all in japan? Maybe Microsoft should call the Xbox in japan MSX3?

The MSX was a very popular computer and had many variants, even making a MSX2 and MSX3. It all changed when the C64 released and made the MSX obsolete. MS never made the hardware, they supplied the software to these MSX machines and hired manufactures like Panasonic, Daewoo and Sony to create the computers. The Xbox console was the first time MS actually created the hardware internally instead of outsourcing to another brand like they did with Sega with the Dreamcast running Windows CE. MS and Bills vision was always about the software and supplying as many devices as possible. Xbox changed that.

mjk45 said:
Azzanation said:

I haven't seen the documentary, however it wasn't just Sony that pushed MS into the Console market. They were in it way before Sony and even Sega. They were pushed out by the ever popular Commadore 64 which dominated the market at the time. MS always wanted to stay in the market and the moment Sega dropped out, they saw their prime opportunity. Sega was helping drive MS software and without Sega, no one was doing it in the console industry. The Xbox was created in house so they don't have to rely on outsourcing their software. This explains why MS wanted to buy Nintendo etc. The Xbox named after Direct X was Microsoft's return to the industry.

Yes they supplied software, but from a hardware standpoint it was Bills fear of the one machine to rule them an all in every home that opened the door but those at MS at the time advocating for MS owned hardware Xbox, not to dissimilar to those early advocates at Sony would have helped it gain impetus.

We need to remember this was a scenario that held sway among many in the tech industry at that time where smart devices were still a fair way from being realised.

I am sure Bill had fears but i don't believe it was solely on Sony. I believe they were more worried about companies abandoning the Windows tools and they needed a way to compete for the 3rd parties by offering an alternate option. Direct X was being left behind while Nintendo and Sony were using their own tools and moving the industry away from Windows Gaming. MS supply software and DX is part of their business model. This is where MS got the name from. Xbox exists to push MS tools. Without Xbox, companies would continue to further themselves from the Windows architecture.

It was true that while companies were worried about others dominating the living room, they completely turned a blind eye on Smart phones and Apple hit everyone by surprise and credit to where credit is due. Apple were right. The Smart Phone was the way to go and become the next step in human evolution. Imagine the world without Smart Phones today. 



Azzanation said:
SegaHeart said:

What the ? Hideo kojima first game ever Metal gear solid was first created on Microsoft first console MSX2 in 1987 I didn't know that? I have many questions? Why did Microsoft abadonned their MSX consoles? Also Why is Microsoft ignoring the MSX exsistance? and say Xbox was their first console ? MSX sold 7 million in japan alone it outsold N64 in Japan and xbox 360 and Xbox original and Xbox One combined  all in japan? Maybe Microsoft should call the Xbox in japan MSX3?

The MSX was a very popular computer and had many variants, even making a MSX2 and MSX3. It all changed when the C64 released and made the MSX obsolete. MS never made the hardware, they supplied the software to these MSX machines and hired manufactures like Panasonic, Daewoo and Sony to create the computers. The Xbox console was the first time MS actually created the hardware internally instead of outsourcing to another brand like they did with Sega with the Dreamcast running Windows CE. MS and Bills vision was always about the software and supplying as many devices as possible. Xbox changed that.

mjk45 said:

Yes they supplied software, but from a hardware standpoint it was Bills fear of the one machine to rule them an all in every home that opened the door but there were also those at MS at the time advocating for an MS owned hardware Xbox, not to dissimilar to those early advocates at Sony who would have helped it gain impetus.

We need to remember this was a scenario that held sway among many in the tech industry at that time where smart devices were still a fair way from being realised.

I am sure Bill had fears but i don't believe it was solely on Sony. I believe they were more worried about companies abandoning the Windows tools and they needed a way to compete for the 3rd parties by offering an alternate option. Direct X was being left behind while Nintendo and Sony were using their own tools and moving the industry away from Windows Gaming. MS supply software and DX is part of their business model. This is where MS got the name from. Xbox exists to push MS tools. Without Xbox, companies would continue to further themselves from the Windows architecture.

It was true that while companies were worried about others dominating the living room, they completely turned a blind eye on Smart phones and Apple hit everyone by surprise and credit to where credit is due. Apple were right. The Smart Phone was the way to go and become the next step in human evolution. Imagine the world without Smart Phones today. 

 This was before the struggle years this was Sony the Japanese electronics giant  with a reputation of successful products that seemingly could do no wrong   coming off the PS1 with Ken spruiking the PS2's multimedia credentials a year before its debut, in a successful bid to stop any Dreamcast momentum there   weren't any other real contenders for the multimedia gaming console space at that time.

Last edited by mjk45 - on 19 December 2021

Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

snyps said:

I’m definitely going to watch this. Looking amazing.

It’s really funny how MS thought Sony was the rival for personal computing dominance when in fact, Sony is still a media format company. 20 years later, does anyone use PS for computer stuff? Meanwhile, Apple finally took back the personal computing space right in your pocket.

Yes, Ballmer was so busy trying to crush Sony he didn't see either iOS or Android coming, and poof! Mobile market was lost, and years later the big Mac comeback in the PC market too, not to mention the Chromebook niche for PC users that don't need PC games or MS Office.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:
snyps said:

I’m definitely going to watch this. Looking amazing.

It’s really funny how MS thought Sony was the rival for personal computing dominance when in fact, Sony is still a media format company. 20 years later, does anyone use PS for computer stuff? Meanwhile, Apple finally took back the personal computing space right in your pocket.

Yes, Ballmer was so busy trying to crush Sony he didn't see either iOS or Android coming, and poof! Mobile market was lost, and years later the big Mac comeback in the PC market too, not to mention the Chromebook niche for PC users that don't need PC games or MS Office.

I’m not sure I would characterize Apple’s presence in desktop as a “big comeback”. macOS has about a 15% global market share on consumer desktops, compared to about 75% for Windows. It’s still very much a boutique luxury brand and likely always will be 

I still have yet to watch this documentary, but did it say that Ballmer was obsessed with crushing Sony? It was my understanding that there was never serious company wide buy-in from Microsoft to try and become a dominant force in the console space until about 2018 or so when Phil Spencer was promoted to Microsoft’s executive leadership circle. Not that they weren’t trying to sell consoles, but their investment into first party software for example was paltry compared to their competitors and I think it was the decisive reason Xbox couldn’t pull away from PS3 in gen 7, despite having what In my opinion was the better designed piece of hardware 



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aTokenYeti said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Yes, Ballmer was so busy trying to crush Sony he didn't see either iOS or Android coming, and poof! Mobile market was lost, and years later the big Mac comeback in the PC market too, not to mention the Chromebook niche for PC users that don't need PC games or MS Office.

I’m not sure I would characterize Apple’s presence in desktop as a “big comeback”. macOS has about a 15% global market share on consumer desktops, compared to about 75% for Windows. It’s still very much a boutique luxury brand and likely always will be 

I still have yet to watch this documentary, but did it say that Ballmer was obsessed with crushing Sony? It was my understanding that there was never serious company wide buy-in from Microsoft to try and become a dominant force in the console space until about 2018 or so when Phil Spencer was promoted to Microsoft’s executive leadership circle. Not that they weren’t trying to sell consoles, but their investment into first party software for example was paltry compared to their competitors and I think it was the decisive reason Xbox couldn’t pull away from PS3 in gen 7, despite having what In my opinion was the better designed piece of hardware 

Yes. The reason the direct x team convinced gates and balmer to enter the console market is Sony said PlayStation 2 would replace the PC. This was printed in journalism back in 2000. I think they were just flush with cash and being paranoid. I’m sure they eventually realized they read the situation wrong, but by that point they were already all in and could afford to keep doubling down. 



Alby_da_Wolf said:
snyps said:

I’m definitely going to watch this. Looking amazing.

It’s really funny how MS thought Sony was the rival for personal computing dominance when in fact, Sony is still a media format company. 20 years later, does anyone use PS for computer stuff? Meanwhile, Apple finally took back the personal computing space right in your pocket.

Yes, Ballmer was so busy trying to crush Sony he didn't see either iOS or Android coming, and poof! Mobile market was lost, and years later the big Mac comeback in the PC market too, not to mention the Chromebook niche for PC users that don't need PC games or MS Office.

And not to mention Steam! I’m really glad Microsoft didnt monopolize games on windows? That would have been a more strategic and profitable focus for them. I’m glad Steam took over that space. From what I can tell, Valve has done a wonderful job. Xbox is my preferred games console but I don’t want Microsoft to be any kind of a monopoly. 



aTokenYeti said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Yes, Ballmer was so busy trying to crush Sony he didn't see either iOS or Android coming, and poof! Mobile market was lost, and years later the big Mac comeback in the PC market too, not to mention the Chromebook niche for PC users that don't need PC games or MS Office.

I’m not sure I would characterize Apple’s presence in desktop as a “big comeback”. macOS has about a 15% global market share on consumer desktops, compared to about 75% for Windows. It’s still very much a boutique luxury brand and likely always will be 

I still have yet to watch this documentary, but did it say that Ballmer was obsessed with crushing Sony? It was my understanding that there was never serious company wide buy-in from Microsoft to try and become a dominant force in the console space until about 2018 or so when Phil Spencer was promoted to Microsoft’s executive leadership circle. Not that they weren’t trying to sell consoles, but their investment into first party software for example was paltry compared to their competitors and I think it was the decisive reason Xbox couldn’t pull away from PS3 in gen 7, despite having what In my opinion was the better designed piece of hardware 

Ballmer was obsessed with power in general, but in the particular case of PC OS market, the whole MS management, but Ballmer more than any other MS exec, considered MS near monopoly on it a sort of divine right, his war against Linux reached ridiculous levels (and he didn't see that outside x86 architecture, without the strength of combined Windows-x86 legacy and existing near-monopoly, Windows was helpless). Actually his war against Sony Playstation ended up being quite milder than his bombastic words, again because in console market MS didn't enjoy a pre-existing position of strength.

(*) edited typo

Last edited by Alby_da_Wolf - on 20 December 2021

Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!