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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Power On: The Story of Xbox

SKMBlake said:

Well yes and no, they designed a full working console for Nintendo that didn't materialize over fee disputes. So using their prototype, removing the SNES cartridge part, and making an actual console isn't the same, I mean they spent money on the prototype.

No I know that, but you have to remember, that's business.

In said business, you don't and aren't really meant to take personal offence to a disagreement or a dissolving of a partnership, but Sony did, and I've seen it in Japanese culture that when one is offended, they tend to take action, usually in an aggressive or passive aggressive manner, even if it is over fee disputes (which you should really solve in court, not create an entirely new brand, designed entirely to utterly demolish your previous partner). 

Sony coming in with that price announcement that was made infamous, was definitely stemming from a passive aggressive nature, not "hey, we're here to do our own thing", it was more like "fuck that Nintendo, fuck anyone else who gets in my way, I'm going to crush everyone, here's my price drop". Like it was funny, it made people clap and cheer, but I definitely saw the aggression there.

Last edited by Chazore - on 16 December 2021

Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

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it was very entertaining but didnt feel any emotion since I am not a xbox fan. the only part I felt some emotion was when they explain the cause of the red ring of death. it reminded me of my first xb360 that only lasted 4 months. I guess from that moment never felt much for xbox.



Chazore said:
SKMBlake said:

I watched the first 2 episodes, I am in the middle of the third one and...

This is exactly why I don't enjoy the "Xbox brand":
- the main target was to respond to Sony's claim about the PS2 replacing PC in living rooms
- then it became all about beating Sony in their own field
- and then it was about entering in the lucrative gaming business to make money out of it, with unlimited funds from the richest company in the world

And yes, we heard about Samus the passionnate nerd who build up a prototype that could boot Windows in 3 seconds, but yeah, overall they made obvious why the Xbox brand isn't loved as much as Nintendo.

I mean, their goals and reason for entering the market aren't something to remember fondly, but tbh, I don't believe Sony's should be either, because if you remember, they only entered the market in a big way because they felt "betrayed" by another Japanese company (Nintendo), which they took Japanese levels of offence to (because that's just like the Japanese to go all Samurai period levels of pissed off, seriously, I'm not joking, history tells you how easy it was to offend them), and decided they wanted to crush their would-be partner.

The part about "replacing PC's" isn't exactly something fond to look back on, considering that was Sony wanted to crush another market.

MS's entrance wasn't noble, but neither was Sony's. Nintendo is remembered fondly because they were there when the market crashed, to pick up the pieces, while the other two were so hell bent on destroying each other and PC gaming (which is hilarious, when you look at PC gaming now, and how the other two, besides Nintendo, have adhere to the market they once sought to do away with/left behind).

That's not actually true, though. Ken Kutaragi was passionate about gaming. He worked on the SNES sound chip in secret and when he finally presented it to execs, most wanted to end the project, because gaming was seen as a fad within the company. He was able to convince the CEO to allow him to continue working with Nintendo on the chip, which eventually led to the idea of partnering for the Nintendo Play Station.

When Nintendo suddenly pulled out of the deal in favor of a (failed) partnership with Phillips, I'm sure they were upset, but most execs still just wanted to end the project. Kutaragi was, once again, able to convince the CEO about the potential of gaming, and the PlayStation was born.

So, it was born out of passion, not to just get back at Nintendo. Here's a pretty good documentary about it:



thismeintiel said:

That's not actually true, though. Ken Kutaragi was passionate about gaming. He worked on the SNES sound chip in secret and when he finally presented it to execs, most wanted to end the project, because gaming was seen as a fad within the company. He was able to convince the CEO to allow him to continue working with Nintendo on the chip, which eventually led to the idea of partnering for the Nintendo Play Station.

When Nintendo suddenly pulled out of the deal in favor of a (failed) partnership with Phillips, I'm sure they were upset, but most execs still just wanted to end the project. Kutaragi was, once again, able to convince the CEO about the potential of gaming, and the PlayStation was born.

So, it was born out of passion, not to just get back at Nintendo. Here's a pretty good documentary about it:

I know you see it as passion, but that's like saying Nintendo are the kindest company on earth (yet they ruled with an iron fist, especially with the Nintendo seal of approval logic). 

I don't see it as passion, especially when hearing it from a CEO of a company (a company that like MS, isn't without faults, arrogance and bad dealing here and there), because I know it's really about money at the end of the day. 

While you can use the passion angle, it doesn't exactly hold true to this day, when you're paying £10 extra for upgrades, the data leak fiasco, the exclusivity deals and much more.

Also I really don't like to think that someone could imagine "passion" being used in the same ideal as wanting to replace PC's, like to me that's not passion, that's more of wanting others to change to what they want as their ideal, not mine (and well, because they're a big company, do they care about what my ideal is?, no, which doesn't come off as passionate either, when you look at the big picture).  

We could say MS was "passionate" about what they wanted to do with Xbox, but then we got GFWL on PC, and was that something passionate or born from it, even if you heard a CEO or some journo saying such?. 

Last edited by Chazore - on 16 December 2021

Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Signalstar said:
d21lewis said:

So I'm an Xbox guy. I can't deny it anymore. I love them.

You're dead to me.

we should do him in but I'm afraid he's un killable



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

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Chazore said:
SKMBlake said:

I watched the first 2 episodes, I am in the middle of the third one and...

This is exactly why I don't enjoy the "Xbox brand":
- the main target was to respond to Sony's claim about the PS2 replacing PC in living rooms
- then it became all about beating Sony in their own field
- and then it was about entering in the lucrative gaming business to make money out of it, with unlimited funds from the richest company in the world

And yes, we heard about Samus the passionnate nerd who build up a prototype that could boot Windows in 3 seconds, but yeah, overall they made obvious why the Xbox brand isn't loved as much as Nintendo.

I mean, their goals and reason for entering the market aren't something to remember fondly, but tbh, I don't believe Sony's should be either, because if you remember, they only entered the market in a big way because they felt "betrayed" by another Japanese company (Nintendo), which they took Japanese levels of offence to (because that's just like the Japanese to go all Samurai period levels of pissed off, seriously, I'm not joking, history tells you how easy it was to offend them), and decided they wanted to crush their would-be partner.

The part about "replacing PC's" isn't exactly something fond to look back on, considering that was Sony wanted to crush another market.

MS's entrance wasn't noble, but neither was Sony's. Nintendo is remembered fondly because they were there when the market crashed, to pick up the pieces, while the other two were so hell bent on destroying each other and PC gaming (which is hilarious, when you look at PC gaming now, and how the other two, besides Nintendo, have adhere to the market they once sought to do away with/left behind).

Like most thing's it isn't one or the other but a mixture, yes there was betrayal and honour involved, but also Ken and certain others who having  become involved through the sound chip and the failed partnership saw the promise and wanted to continue on despite internal opposition, most of the betrayal and honour story comes from Ken using it to convince the head of Sony to back it when it looked like it would be knocked back at a meeting.

Even then with the greenlight given, that opposition is part of the reason Sony music became the place that birthed the PlayStation, so the betrayal aspect was just a strategy used by Ken and not a Sony wide mindset.

The reason for MS entering the scene has been told many times by Bill Gates he said he was afraid that the PS2 would become or at least herald the ubiquitous all in one multimedia box that the world foresaw in the pre smart phone era, so it's success endangering windows, history has shown it was a misplaced fear brought about by Bill seeing the PS1 dominating and believing Ken's ambition for the PS2  so in conclusion everything can be laid at Crazy Kens door its all his fault.

Last edited by mjk45 - on 17 December 2021

Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

Was a great documentary. I don’t care about the motivations or anything, it was interesting and told in an entertaining way with some cool people. I think anyone with an interest in gaming should watch it and it would be amazing if Nintendo and Sony did the same thing.

How did Mattrick agree to this? Dude almost single handedly sunk the brand. Gotta dock it points for too much Major Nelson. Even five seconds of Major Nelson is too much Major Nelson.

It was very cool to see coverage of Halo 2 and 3’s launches. Those were without a doubt the biggest game launches I remember ever happening. Especially 3, it was insanity. Maybe the only thing close is Perfect Dark.



SKMBlake said:

I watched the first 2 episodes, I am in the middle of the third one and...

This is exactly why I don't enjoy the "Xbox brand":
- the main target was to respond to Sony's claim about the PS2 replacing PC in living rooms
- then it became all about beating Sony in their own field
- and then it was about entering in the lucrative gaming business to make money out of it, with unlimited funds from the richest company in the world

And yes, we heard about Samus the passionnate nerd who build up a prototype that could boot Windows in 3 seconds, but yeah, overall they made obvious why the Xbox brand isn't loved as much as Nintendo.

I kinda accept that they're all just corporations trying to get our money. Nintendo is still my sentimental and nostalgic favorite but at this point I just gravitate towards whichever plastic box gives me the games and features I want. Emotions play a much smaller role in where I spend my money these days. Still enjoy the story and anything that talks about the history of gaming in general. 



SKMBlake said:
Chazore said:

, I don't believe Sony's should be either, because if you remember, they only entered the market in a big way because they felt "betrayed" by another Japanese company (Nintendo), which they took Japanese levels of offence to (because that's just like the Japanese to go all Samurai period levels of pissed off, seriously, I'm not joking, history tells you how easy it was to offend them), and decided they wanted to crush their would-be partner.

Well yes and no, they designed a full working console for Nintendo that didn't materialize over fee disputes. So using their prototype, removing the SNES cartridge part, and making an actual console isn't the same, I mean they spent money on the prototype.

Chazore said:
thismeintiel said:

That's not actually true, though. Ken Kutaragi was passionate about gaming. He worked on the SNES sound chip in secret and when he finally presented it to execs, most wanted to end the project, because gaming was seen as a fad within the company. He was able to convince the CEO to allow him to continue working with Nintendo on the chip, which eventually led to the idea of partnering for the Nintendo Play Station.

When Nintendo suddenly pulled out of the deal in favor of a (failed) partnership with Phillips, I'm sure they were upset, but most execs still just wanted to end the project. Kutaragi was, once again, able to convince the CEO about the potential of gaming, and the PlayStation was born.

So, it was born out of passion, not to just get back at Nintendo. Here's a pretty good documentary about it:

I know you see it as passion, but that's like saying Nintendo are the kindest company on earth (yet they ruled with an iron fist, especially with the Nintendo seal of approval logic). 

I don't see it as passion, especially when hearing it from a CEO of a company (a company that like MS, isn't without faults, arrogance and bad dealing here and there), because I know it's really about money at the end of the day. 

While you can use the passion angle, it doesn't exactly hold true to this day, when you're paying £10 extra for upgrades, the data leak fiasco, the exclusivity deals and much more.

Also I really don't like to think that someone could imagine "passion" being used in the same ideal as wanting to replace PC's, like to me that's not passion, that's more of wanting others to change to what they want as their ideal, not mine (and well, because they're a big company, do they care about what my ideal is?, no, which doesn't come off as passionate either, when you look at the big picture).  

We could say MS was "passionate" about what they wanted to do with Xbox, but then we got GFWL on PC, and was that something passionate or born from it, even if you heard a CEO or some journo saying such?. 

SNY seemingly had much more interest in gaming as per the business decision. Dishonorable Nintendo was just the missing Link to the PS brand.

It makes perfect sense because it's a form of entertainment. It fits extremely well with SNY's brand. The necessary console hardware as well.

MS planned for a partnership first. MS did have a tiny amount of gaming interest in mind, but the business decision was mostly to keep SNY in check.

This made sense because offering the gaming software API and OS, fit the MS brand extremely well. The future online infrastructure also.

If SNY wouldn't have indirectly verbally threatened MS business, they may have gotten away without having to compete with XBOX or even 360. Though if PS3 was allowed to match if not exceed PS2 sales due to lack of competition, MS may never have been able to stop SNY from taking a chunk of their business. We would almost certainly have an Apple/Samsung/Google like all encompassing ecosystem for SNY by the time PS4 launched in that case, and PS4 just may have been running a Windows competitor, SNY's or third party.

Overall moral of the story. Don't ever get too cocky.

Last edited by EricHiggin - on 17 December 2021

EricHiggin said:

SNY

Ugh