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Forums - Sales - Famitsu sales: Week 43, 2021 - (18th Oct - 24th Oct)

Wyrdness said:
Zippy6 said:

It doesn't matter that much, you're the one getting upset about it and viewing it as some sort of attack.

xPhenom08x said:

This is just another thinly disguised way of making the Switch whatever we want to fit our agenda. It's a home console or WiiU successor when discussing it's eventual downfall or sales trajectory. It's a handheld or 3DS successor when discussing why it's outselling Playstation.

3DS still had a place in the market after the Switch had launched as a much cheaper device with a completely different library of games. Switch was a complete replacement of the WiiU. It succeeds both but it is a more direct replacement of the WiiU which it made irrelevant. That's the only point I'm making.

All Nintendo portables had a place after their successors arrived much like the 3DS the problem with your mode of logic is that it's looking at one thing and ignoring others every portable they had got support after their successor arrived before being phased out while every home platform outside of the SNES was stopped when their successor arrived because home platforms required more resources so what you're seeing now is no different to how things were before it's no indication of it being more of a successor to one than any other as it has followed the same path all the prior platforms in both markets have gone in succeeding their predecessor.

How so? Literally every Nintendo handheld has been backwards compatible with the previous one except the Switch. Making DS games post 3DS is still making content for the 3DS, even if it says DS on the box. I would consider buying a 3DS today, I would never buy a WiiU because there's zero reason to when the Switch exists.

3DS to Switch is unique from any other handheld transition in that is the first time games have continued to be developed and not be playable in any form on the handhelds successor.

Luigi's Mansion Remake, Pokemon Ultra Sun/Moon, Mario Sports Superstars, Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, Hey Pikmin, Metroid Samus Returns, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions, Mario Party: The Top 100, Kirby Battle Royale, Detective Pikachu, Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey.

Look at all these 3DS games released after the Switch launched that aren't playable on the Switch in any form to this day. WiiU to Switch was a hard cut-off complete and utter replacement immediately. 3DS to Switch was a soft transition.

It succeeds both but it is a harder WiiU replacement than 3DS replacement.

Last edited by Zippy6 - on 01 November 2021

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Zippy6 said:

How so? Literally every Nintendo handheld has been backwards compatible with the previous one except the Switch. Making DS games post 3DS is still making content for the 3DS, even if it says DS on the box. I would consider buying a 3DS today, I would never buy a WiiU because there's zero reason to when the Switch exists.

3DS to Switch is unique from any other handheld transition in that is the first time games have continued to be developed and not be playable in any form on the handhelds successor.

BC doesn't dictate whether a platform is the successor every PS console had BC until the PS4 after all, Switch not having BC is also plain common sense as the form factor is different with it not having two screens this means that straight BC can't happen as games that heavily require the second screen would be able to function, BC is just a feature WiiU had BC. 3DS to Switch is not the most unique transition from Nintendo either as the is also G&W to GB.

Using BC as a merit is like asking why isn't GB backwards compatible with Game and Watch games if it's a successor.

As for games released look at GBA games released in the two years following the DS launch the were over 100 games including Pokemon Emerald, Mario Party Advance, Mother 3, Minish Cap, Megaman Zero 4, Megaman BN 5, Fire Emblem The Sacred Stones, Warioware Twisted, Yoshi TT, Harvest Moon, M&L Sigma Star Saga etc... It's nothing new.

Fact is it succeeds both platforms the way they've always succeeded their predecessors in their respective markets, portables carried on for a bit while home consoles had support cut to focus on the new which is a given due to the difference in resources required games for portables used to be able to be made with tiny teams after all.

Last edited by Wyrdness - on 01 November 2021

Wyrdness said:
Zippy6 said:

How so? Literally every Nintendo handheld has been backwards compatible with the previous one except the Switch. Making DS games post 3DS is still making content for the 3DS, even if it says DS on the box. I would consider buying a 3DS today, I would never buy a WiiU because there's zero reason to when the Switch exists.

3DS to Switch is unique from any other handheld transition in that is the first time games have continued to be developed and not be playable in any form on the handhelds successor.

BC doesn't dictate whether a platform is the successor every PS console had BC until the PS4 after all, Switch not having BC is also plain common sense as the form factor is different with it not having two screens this means that straight BC can't happen as games that heavily require the second screen would be able to function. 3DS to Switch is not the most unique transition from Nintendo either as the is also G&W to GB.

Using BC as a merit is like asking why isn't GB backwards compatible with Game and Watch games if it's a successor.

I've never said Switch wasn't a successor to 3DS so I'm not using BC as a measure to dictate if it is a successor or not. It's a successor to both but more a direct replacement of the WiiU than the 3DS, even though it replaces them both.

I think it's best to leave it here otherwise we'll talk in circles for hours. Switch made the WiiU redundant, it didn't do the same to 3DS. Switch was priced like the WiiU, Switch shares more games with the WiiU, WiiU support was completely dropped with the launch of the Switch, etc etc.

Switch succeeds both WiiU and 3DS, but WiiU is the device that Switch directly replaced and made completely irrelevant and redundant in the process.



Zippy6 said:

I've never said Switch wasn't a successor to 3DS so I'm not using BC as a measure to dictate if it is a successor or not. It's a successor to both but more a direct replacement of the WiiU than the 3DS, even though it replaces them both.

I think it's best to leave it here otherwise we'll talk in circles for hours. Switch made the WiiU redundant, it didn't do the same to 3DS. Switch was priced like the WiiU, Switch shares more games with the WiiU, WiiU support was completely dropped with the launch of the Switch, etc etc.

Switch succeeds both WiiU and 3DS, but WiiU is the device that Switch directly replaced and made completely irrelevant and redundant in the process.

You don't get the point Switch making WiiU redundant is how Nintendo's home platforms have always operated, portables have always carried on after their successor your logic is looking at one thing to say it succeeds that one harder and ignoring that the other thing has always happened as well with successors. So in effect all you're just pointing out is how Switch carries on the same succession procedure for both platforms at the same time it doesn't show it replacing one harder than the other.



Don't worry wyrdness, Switch will go back to being 3DS's direct successor once the agenda swings back to calling it a handheld with tv out.



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Gotta say, I find this latest debate entertaining. LOL.



xPhenom08x said:

The funny part about this market confusion and late peak nonsense is the Switch sold more in its first year than WiiU did lifetime. The Switch also sold like 3 million its first year in Japan, ask Playstation how hard that is for home consoles. The market was never confused, that is just you. 3ds userbase was clearly already supporting Switch, it doesn't sell like it does in its first year with just Nintendo home console purchasers. It's first year is better than the PS4s first year. Will probably be too high for PS5s as well. This is the type of conclusion you come to when you are only interested in an agenda. Real market analysis would look at its performance and never entertain the idea of 3ds owners not buying a clearly portable platform from Nintendo(Switch) from the very beginning. 

What is the correlation between Switch outselling Wii U with anything I've said in my post? What's the correlation with Sony, PS4 sales or PS5 sales in Japan whatsoever? I'm curious, what "agenda" do I have exactly? You seem more aware of it that I do

Of course 3DS userbase was supporting Switch, but it wasn't a quick replacement. Switch is not BC to 3DS, unlike 3DS from DS or DS from GBA. It was not a hardware that made the hardware that came before irrelevant, that was still reasons to get a 3DS in early Switch life and late adopters of 3DS of course had many reasons to wait until the truth about what IPs were coming to Switch or not. 

Heck, I didn't even said that I don't think Switch is the replacement from 3DS, merely stated we should not expect the drops from Switch after Switch 2 launch being the same of 3DS, rather to expect DS-level YoY drops. 

Edit: This is actually WRONG, ignore it:

3DS was still moving 2.5 million in the year of 2019 when the system was already 8 years old. At 8 years old DS was selling a quarter of this number, and the DS sold about two times more than 3DS. This was because 3DS was a complete direct replacement, after the first price it made DS virtually irrelevant. Switch came later on 3DS life than 3DS came into DS life and somehow 3DS managed to keep resilient sales, if Nintendo strategy for next gen is merely similar to Sony I will not be surprised if Switch see a 75% decrease YoY just as PS4 is likely to suffer

Last edited by IcaroRibeiro - on 01 November 2021

xPhenom08x said:
Farsala said:

Whether it be direct or indirect, the Switch is still the successor to both the 3DS and the Wii U.

However, support for the Wii U dropped long before the 3DS and moved to the Switch, so that is why I want to differentiate them.

Something like Super Mario Odyssey was in the works for at least 3 years, if not more. Meanwhile in 2017 3DS got Fire Emblem, Metroid, Pokemon, Yoshi etc.

So again, then 3DS is the indirect successor to DS because it still got exclusive games after 3DS see Pokemon.

Before the Switch, it is really quite easy. Handheld to handheld is direct successor, home console to home console is direct successor.

Only questions we might have are which consoles are the 3DS and PS Vita's successors? For 3DS it is clearly the Switch. But I argue it is more indirectly compared with the Wii U.

xPhenom08x said:
Zippy6 said:

It doesn't matter that much, you're the one getting upset about it and viewing it as some sort of attack.

xPhenom08x said:

This is just another thinly disguised way of making the Switch whatever we want to fit our agenda. It's a home console or WiiU successor when discussing it's eventual downfall or sales trajectory. It's a handheld or 3DS successor when discussing why it's outselling Playstation.

3DS still had a place in the market after the Switch had launched as a much cheaper device with a completely different library of games. Switch was a complete replacement of the WiiU. It succeeds both but it is a more direct replacement of the WiiU which it made irrelevant. That's the only point I'm making.

I am not upset at all, this is hilarious. I have only pointed out exactly what this really is. When discussing the Switch's eventual downfall or collapse that's when it's a home console or WiiU/Wii successor. Look at his post, he conveniently brings up direct/indirect when talking about the Switchs trajectory. If it follows 3DS which had a gradual declines then Switch does over 30 million easily. Something he disagrees with so in order to explain his stance or stick to his agenda, the Switch is now just an indirect successor. When explaing why the Switch is kicking playstations ass in Japan, he will call it 3DS's successor. It all depends on the agenda for the day!

What predecessor doesn't have what 3DS had? It was a cheaper option with it'd own library of games. You used 3Ds backward compatibility to wiggly out of DS to 3DS, so now do the same with PS3 to PS4.

I have no agenda here, I just like to talk about sales. Most of the time, I like to use past consoles as reference. The reason I use the DS over the 3DS is because people are expecting >30m, something the DS could do while the 3DS couldn't by a long shot.

When I quoted Tbone51, I didn't necessarily disagree with him. I wanted to add some more food for thought. It appears to have sparked an entirely different conversation though, which is fine.



Actually the 8th fiscal year for both DS and 3DS are almost the same 2.35m to 2.55m.



Does anyone know what kind of famitsu sales to expect from MP Superstars? It's Mario so i'd expect Sales to be consistent rather than explosive, so are we looking at 200k physical opening?