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How many subscribers does MS need for other companies to follow?

20 million 6 13.33%
 
30 million 4 8.89%
 
40 million 6 13.33%
 
50 million 13 28.89%
 
60 million 2 4.44%
 
70 million 1 2.22%
 
80 million 0 0%
 
90 million 1 2.22%
 
150 million + 12 26.67%
 
Total:45

Spot the odd one out

Normalised growth (Xbox is at 1.6, Netflix is at 20)

YoY Rev growth (Prime, Netflix, Spotify at 20-30%, Xbox at single digits)

All on one graph

So no Gamepass is not the Netflix of gaming. Not even close. Until it starts growing like actual successful sub services (Prime, Spotify, Netflix), Xbox is still following the console platform business model Playstation uses.

And the reason Gamepass hasn't taken off like Netflix is because the economics and creative distribution in videogames is worlds apart to music or tv.



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Can you post your sources for the horribly sorted data in these graphs? Why does the Netflix graph show about 14-15 years when it has been around for almost 25? Why does the Xbox graph seem to stop at around 8 years when it’s been around for 20?

Also why are you expecting a service that has been around for four years to be as big as fucking Netflix ?

What console warrior forum did you find these graphs at?



src said:

Playstation makes $26B a year. Tiil Xbox comes anywhere close (it hasn't, in fact Sony predicts they'll take more marketshare this gen), Sony won't care. Neither will Nintendo.

Gamepass craters software sales. Its unclear if it is even profitable. To be profitable it essentially turns every game in F2P (+ sub cost), where the microtransaction spend by total users has to be greater than the sales revenue they would get by spending $60 to buy the game.

For SP games, that have very little to no MTX, they are subsidised by the MTX revenue of multiplayer games.

I think total PSN revenue is nearing $10B, so pubs from PS alone are getting $30B+ in revenue a year. Good luck trying to achieve that with Gamepass.

If each PS plus subscriber is paying the full $60.00 a year, and there are 46 million PS plus subscribers year-round, that would make $2.7bn, not $10bn. That's the ballpark number you should be comparing Game Pass revenue to. 

In fact, the gross revenue number from PS Plus is $3.5 billion (presumably thanks to those who pay $9.99 monthly), compared with $13.8 billion for software and $7 billion in hardware, to make , as you say, $24.8 billion total sales revenue. These would be the more appropriate numbers to compare to MS's position.

But this is all fluff which is mostly besides the point. Companies will be enticed to either copy or not copy Microsoft's strategy based on net profits and expectations of future net profits. Specifically the present value of all future profits. Nintendo and Sony will presumably have their own estimates about what their net profits would be when either following suit or doubling down on their present strategies, based on how gamers continue to respond to GP and what kind of deals MS are able to start brokering for it. Gamepass is conceived as a disruptive product and has positioned itself as a great value offering on PC as well as console, makes it inherently unpredictable. But it's growing like a rocket, and that's in a market where paying for online multiplayer is becoming increasingly untenable. 

So the choice for Sony might be between emulating aspects of game pass or find themselves scrambling to find a subscription service they can pivot PS Plus users onto when that racket eventually runs out of track. It should go without saying though that for Sony, generating half of all PS revenue through software, will protect and grow that revenue as a priority notwithstanding some enormous strategic pressure. Such strategic pressure might, for instance, be a consumer base which is increasingly used to playing games at zero marginal cost. The idea of paying £70 for a new game now baffles me. I wouldn't be so sure as you are that Sony will stay the course as they're a very large and pragmatic corporation which has read the market very well in the past, but this is all change and don't underestimate it. 

Another thing is those god-awful graphs, man. Why would you compare Xbox to Prime, Netflix or Spotify. Surely you'd compare Prime, Netflix or Spotify to game pass itself rather than the whole Xbox division including hardware and conventional software sales? Especially when gamepass is quite obviously an exercise in shifting software sales revenue into subscription revenue. It's a super futile comparison. 



Lmao that had me chuckle for a long time, brilliant work on spinning data, the trump administration would have won a second time with you on their team



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src said:

Spot the odd one out

Normalised growth (Xbox is at 1.6, Netflix is at 20)

YoY Rev growth (Prime, Netflix, Spotify at 20-30%, Xbox at single digits)

All on one graph

So no Gamepass is not the Netflix of gaming. Not even close. Until it starts growing like actual successful sub services (Prime, Spotify, Netflix), Xbox is still following the console platform business model Playstation uses.

And the reason Gamepass hasn't taken off like Netflix is because the economics and creative distribution in videogames is worlds apart to music or tv.

Where did you find this, Twitter or Reddit? I really hope you didn't waste your time making this because it's terrible. 



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Letting you know that gamepass ultimate in nz cost 19.95 nzd. I pay for that every month. The most basic from my friends telling me was like 7 to 8 nzd. I am not to sure on the basic cost price. Yes I do at times buy the discounted game if I know I can't finish the third party games before ms removes them.



wow, some of you guys in this thread are taking a dump on Gamepass when you clearly know little to nothing about it. Gamepass has many games on it that are NOT from Microsoft, a lot of those same games are on Switch and Playstation that you play and know full well they are not mobile or FTP games. To say that Gamepass is going to go to the way of free to play or Microtransaction hell just proves you have no idea what you are talking about nor have actually tried the service.

I will help you out, here a few games on Gamepass that have little to no microtransactions.

Hades
Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, X. X-2, XII, XIII, XIII-2, XIII: LR, XV
Every single Kingdom Hearts Game
Every Single Doom game including Doom 64
DragonQuest XI
Aragami 2
Psychonauts 2
Katamari Damacy Reroll
Lumines Remastered
The entire Yakuza Series
Elder Scrolls III, IV, V

And many many more games that have little to no microtranctions. Gamepass isnt Satan in human flesh, so stop demonizing it. The games that are on gamepass (apart form 1st party games) will not be on there forever, some games come and go quickly, others stay around for a bit of time. So there is a lot of incentive to buy games that are on gamepass, especially RPG's and multiplayer games as some of them take a while to complete and once they leave gamepass they wont be back, but while they are on gamepass there is a special discount for gamepass subscribers so a lot of people do buy them.



我是广州人

I feel that a video I made last month would actually fit in here very well.  I argue that PS Now is GamePass+XCloud.  The only difference is that Sony don't put out their games on day one on the service. 

But I argue that doing so doesn't make business sense.  The amount of money MS has to pour into GamePass to make it what it is will never make a profit.

As I say, apart from the day one thing, PS Now is the same thing.  You can download the games (you only HAVE to stream PS3 games), and the selection is really good.  Plus let me be really brutal and say that although MS do put their 1st party games on GamePass on day 1, they hardly have any 1st party games to begin with!



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

The better question is, how many gaming subscription services like GamePass can coexist at the same time? Because we've all seen the race for TV streaming, and how many services end up not making it. Plus, if the exclusivity wars start with videogame streaming (and they will) people will end up paying multiple services at once, which makes the point of streaming moot.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

LudicrousSpeed said:

Can you post your sources for the horribly sorted data in these graphs? Why does the Netflix graph show about 14-15 years when it has been around for almost 25? Why does the Xbox graph seem to stop at around 8 years when it’s been around for 20?

Also why are you expecting a service that has been around for four years to be as big as fucking Netflix 😂

What console warrior forum did you find these graphs at?

Aww is the reality of market data hurting your imagination?

Source of the numbers are from company FY reports. You can check the numbers yourself to verify, its all from there.

I think its apparent that you are in over your head with even the most basic financial analysis. Netflix started streaming in 2007.

Notice the word normalised. Gradients of Netflix, Spotify, Prime, even in their early years are evidently vastly different to Xbox.

smroadkill15 said:
src said:

Spot the odd one out

Normalised growth (Xbox is at 1.6, Netflix is at 20)

YoY Rev growth (Prime, Netflix, Spotify at 20-30%, Xbox at single digits)

All on one graph

So no Gamepass is not the Netflix of gaming. Not even close. Until it starts growing like actual successful sub services (Prime, Spotify, Netflix), Xbox is still following the console platform business model Playstation uses.

And the reason Gamepass hasn't taken off like Netflix is because the economics and creative distribution in videogames is worlds apart to music or tv.

Where did you find this, Twitter or Reddit? I really hope you didn't waste your time making this because it's terrible. 

Why? It clearly shows, Xbox's sub model isn't moving the needle, isn't growing like a successful sub service and most of all (which is why I suspect some are so taken back), Gamepass is not the Netflix of gaming lol

Netflix grew 10x in 10 years.