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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware July 4-10 - PS5 Sales Top 10 Million

curl-6 said:
trunkswd said:

Thank you. Being roughly 1 week off is pretty good. They do say over 10 million, so it is entirely possibly it crossed 10 million a handful of days earlier. I will adjust our PS5 numbers down a hair so it tops 10 million week ending July 17 rather than July 10. Right now we have PS5 BARELY above 10 million as of July 10. 

Congrats on the remarkably close tracking and the prompt adjustments as new data comes to light. Your work is much appreciated.

I've got the time right now to do adjustments fairly quickly. Whenever I am back in the UK with my SO, adjustments might not happen quite so fast depending on the day. 

What I want is our estimates to be as accurate as possible. 



VGChartz Sales Analyst and Writer - William D'Angelo - I stream on Twitch and have my own YoutubeFollow me on Twitter @TrunksWD.

Writer of the Gap Charts | Weekly Hardware Breakdown Top 10 | Weekly Sales Analysis | Marketshare Features, as well as daily news on the Video Game Industry.

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Seems like VGC is being very close to the right numbers. One week difference between when it reached 10M for me is pretty spot on.

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 29 July 2021

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

As HW power is a strong selling point for both PS5 and XS, I suspect that a thing that can damage both Sony and MS is the fact that multiplats must run also on the crippled XS base model so the HW power of the best Sony and MS models is quite considerably underused.

As Xbox Series S has a solid state drive and the same CPU as the X just at a slightly lower clockspeed, and graphics are highly scalable, it shouldn't be as big a anchor as raw Teraflops might suggest. Games can simply use lower graphics settings on the S and higher ones on X and PS5 in the same way that the PC versions of games are already designed to run on a wide range of hardware power specs.

Agree that graphics ar e scalable and CPU is just a little downclocked, the critically crippled part is RAM size, 10GB instead of 16GB is a >30% shrink, and in the mid and long term, with 16GB already cheaper enough per GB than 8GB to make a 16GB PC just a few euros more expensive than a 8GB one and so becoming the norm, multiplats will become less and less comfortable with less than 16GB RAM. Yes, you could cut a couple GB considering consoles lightweight OS and less services and additional SW running than on PC, you could cut another two GB limiting max RAM used by the less powerful GPU, but in a 16GB+ PC world, 12GB becomes the bare minimum for modern consoles, cutting another two GB wasn't a brilliant move, for a really puny cost reduction MS took a great risk of making devs start having problems too soon. And potential buyers could already be predicting the problem now.

trunkswd said:
curl-6 said:

[...]

MS Flight Sim runs pretty dang well on my Series S. We shouldn't be seeing too much any issues for many years with it. 

MS FS is MS exclusive and 1st party, so what's lost in HW specs can at least partially made up for with even more than adding platform optimisations and tweaks, it's tailor-made for MS platforms from the beginning.

Agente42 said:
trunkswd said:

MS Flight Sim runs pretty dang well on my Series S. We shouldn't be seeing too much any issues for many years with it. 

The Bethesda console exclusivity and Xbox series S maybe Microsoft better positioned this gen. And I believe total sales of the twins(Xbox and PS) stabilize, not more go down, because India market. Let's see...

Low market entry with Gamepass is a good proposition on stationary consoles. 

1st party exclusives will start having problems far later, with careful planning even after next gen launch, but 3rd party exclusives and even more multiplats won't be so lucky. The most power-hungry multiplats developed on PC first could eventually be forced to give up XS compatibility, or, if MS will ever allow it, split XS user base being XSX-compatible only and ditching XSS.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:
curl-6 said:

As Xbox Series S has a solid state drive and the same CPU as the X just at a slightly lower clockspeed, and graphics are highly scalable, it shouldn't be as big a anchor as raw Teraflops might suggest. Games can simply use lower graphics settings on the S and higher ones on X and PS5 in the same way that the PC versions of games are already designed to run on a wide range of hardware power specs.

Agree that graphics ar e scalable and CPU is just a little downclocked, the critically crippled part is RAM size, 10GB instead of 16GB is a >30% shrink, and in the mid and long term, with 16GB already cheaper enough per GB than 8GB to make a 16GB PC just a few euros more expensive than a 8GB one and so becoming the norm, multiplats will become less and less comfortable with less than 16GB RAM. Yes, you could cut a couple GB considering consoles lightweight OS and less services and additional SW running than on PC, you could cut another two GB limiting max RAM used by the less powerful GPU, but in a 16GB+ PC world, 12GB becomes the bare minimum for modern consoles, cutting another two GB wasn't a brilliant move, for a really puny cost reduction MS took a great risk of making devs start having problems too soon. And potential buyers could already be predicting the problem now.

trunkswd said:

MS Flight Sim runs pretty dang well on my Series S. We shouldn't be seeing too much any issues for many years with it. 

MS FS is MS exclusive and 1st party, so what's lost in HW specs can at least partially made up for with even more than adding platform optimisations and tweaks, it's tailor-made for MS platforms from the beginning.

Agente42 said:

The Bethesda console exclusivity and Xbox series S maybe Microsoft better positioned this gen. And I believe total sales of the twins(Xbox and PS) stabilize, not more go down, because India market. Let's see...

Low market entry with Gamepass is a good proposition on stationary consoles. 

1st party exclusives will start having problems far later, with careful planning even after next gen launch, but 3rd party exclusives and even more multiplats won't be so lucky. The most power-hungry multiplats developed on PC first could eventually be forced to give up XS compatibility, or, if MS will ever allow it, split XS user base being XSX-compatible only and ditching XSS.

Well from all we know considering the lower resolution also cuts a lot of the RAM need. So it would be similar balance as Series X from all we know.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Alby_da_Wolf said:
curl-6 said:

As Xbox Series S has a solid state drive and the same CPU as the X just at a slightly lower clockspeed, and graphics are highly scalable, it shouldn't be as big a anchor as raw Teraflops might suggest. Games can simply use lower graphics settings on the S and higher ones on X and PS5 in the same way that the PC versions of games are already designed to run on a wide range of hardware power specs.

Agree that graphics ar e scalable and CPU is just a little downclocked, the critically crippled part is RAM size, 10GB instead of 16GB is a >30% shrink, and in the mid and long term, with 16GB already cheaper enough per GB than 8GB to make a 16GB PC just a few euros more expensive than a 8GB one and so becoming the norm, multiplats will become less and less comfortable with less than 16GB RAM. Yes, you could cut a couple GB considering consoles lightweight OS and less services and additional SW running than on PC, you could cut another two GB limiting max RAM used by the less powerful GPU, but in a 16GB+ PC world, 12GB becomes the bare minimum for modern consoles, cutting another two GB wasn't a brilliant move, for a really puny cost reduction MS took a great risk of making devs start having problems too soon. And potential buyers could already be predicting the problem now.

You don't need as much RAM once you dial down the graphics settings. In a 1080p game you don't really need 4K textures for example, so you can save a bunch of memory there.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 30 July 2021

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

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curl-6 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Agree that graphics ar e scalable and CPU is just a little downclocked, the critically crippled part is RAM size, 10GB instead of 16GB is a >30% shrink, and in the mid and long term, with 16GB already cheaper enough per GB than 8GB to make a 16GB PC just a few euros more expensive than a 8GB one and so becoming the norm, multiplats will become less and less comfortable with less than 16GB RAM. Yes, you could cut a couple GB considering consoles lightweight OS and less services and additional SW running than on PC, you could cut another two GB limiting max RAM used by the less powerful GPU, but in a 16GB+ PC world, 12GB becomes the bare minimum for modern consoles, cutting another two GB wasn't a brilliant move, for a really puny cost reduction MS took a great risk of making devs start having problems too soon. And potential buyers could already be predicting the problem now.

You don't need as much RAM once you dial down the graphics settings. In a 1080p game you don't really need 4K textures for example, so you can save a bunch of memory there.

Once devs start considering 16GB the norm, they also start making less efforts to fit games in lower RAM size. Sure, scaling down graphics you save a lot of memory, and initially 10GB won't be a problem, actually for cross-gen games that must run on old gen too, with its 8GB, they will never be a problem, but they could become later for current gen-only games and even worse for current and next gen cross-gen games. 12GB is 50% larger than last gen RAM, but 10GB is just 25% larger. With better CPU and GPU even just those additional 2GB can make us feel the generation leap at the beginning of this gen, and graphics scalability will keep problems away from graphics on top end models too until the end of this gen life, but later it could arrive the moment when having to run in the base model's 10GB will force to underuse the CPU, as CPU usage scales down much less downscaling graphics, particularly levels size and its logic, not graphic detail, so game world management related to it, and gameplay don't scale down at all, neither do physics, except particle systems, that are managed by the GPU, anyway, as the CPU isn't parallel enough to do it efficiently and fast.
Anyhow, large game worlds with lots of details not limited to graphics, but also regarding items interactivity, will eventually become the worst enemy of systems with smaller main RAM, and most probably only exclusives will manage to keep the problem away for the whole gen.

@DonFerrari This is also at least a partial answer to your point, I totally agree that scalability will keep graphics out of troubles, the problem will be the RAM needed by the CPU for all the things that can't be scaled down.

Last edited by Alby_da_Wolf - on 31 July 2021

Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


Alby_da_Wolf said:
curl-6 said:

You don't need as much RAM once you dial down the graphics settings. In a 1080p game you don't really need 4K textures for example, so you can save a bunch of memory there.

Once devs start considering 16GB the norm, they also start making less efforts to fit games in lower RAM size. Sure, scaling down graphics you save a lot of memory, and initially 10GB won't be a problem, actually for cross-gen games that must run on old gen too, with its 8GB, they will never be a problem, but they could become later for current gen-only games and even worse for current and next gen cross-gen games. 12GB is 50% larger than last gen RAM, but 10GB is just 25% larger. With better CPU and GPU even just those additional 2GB can make us feel the generation leap at the beginning of this gen, and graphics scalability will keep problems away from graphics on top end models too until the end of this gen life, but later it could arrive the moment when having to run in the base model's 10GB will force to underuse the CPU, as CPU usage scales down much less downscaling graphics, particularly levels size and its logic, not graphic detail, so game world management related to it, and gameplay don't scale down at all, neither do physics, except particle systems, that are managed by the GPU, anyway, as the CPU isn't parallel enough to do it efficiently and fast.
Anyhow, large game worlds with lots of details not limited to graphics, but also regarding items interactivity, will eventually become the worst enemy of systems with smaller main RAM, and most probably only exclusives will manage to keep the problem away for the whole gen.

This isn't the first gen where consoles had different amounts of RAM, or just significantly different specs in general.

In the 6th gen Xbox had 64MB while Gamecube had 40MB and PS2 just 32MB. 

In the second half of the 8th gen games had to scale all the way from Xbox One X and PS4 Pro down to the base Xbox One.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Don't forget my boy Dreamcast with 16 MB in the 6th Gen. Yeah, extremely broad landscape for specs back then.



And that's the only thing I need is *this*. I don't need this or this. Just this PS4... And this gaming PC. - The PS4 and the Gaming PC and that's all I need... And this Xbox 360. - The PS4, the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360, and that's all I need... And these PS3's. - The PS4, and these PS3's, and the Gaming PC, and the Xbox 360... And this Nintendo DS. - The PS4, this Xbox 360, and the Gaming PC, and the PS3's, and that's all *I* need. And that's *all* I need too. I don't need one other thing, not one... I need this. - The Gaming PC and PS4, and Xbox 360, and thePS3's . Well what are you looking at? What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That's all I need.

Obligatory dick measuring Gaming Laptop Specs: Sager NP8270-GTX: 17.3" FULL HD (1920X1080) LED Matte LC, nVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M, Intel Core i7-4700MQ, 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3, 750GB SATA II 3GB/s 7,200 RPM Hard Drive

Alby_da_Wolf said:
curl-6 said:

You don't need as much RAM once you dial down the graphics settings. In a 1080p game you don't really need 4K textures for example, so you can save a bunch of memory there.

Once devs start considering 16GB the norm, they also start making less efforts to fit games in lower RAM size. Sure, scaling down graphics you save a lot of memory, and initially 10GB won't be a problem, actually for cross-gen games that must run on old gen too, with its 8GB, they will never be a problem, but they could become later for current gen-only games and even worse for current and next gen cross-gen games. 12GB is 50% larger than last gen RAM, but 10GB is just 25% larger. With better CPU and GPU even just those additional 2GB can make us feel the generation leap at the beginning of this gen, and graphics scalability will keep problems away from graphics on top end models too until the end of this gen life, but later it could arrive the moment when having to run in the base model's 10GB will force to underuse the CPU, as CPU usage scales down much less downscaling graphics, particularly levels size and its logic, not graphic detail, so game world management related to it, and gameplay don't scale down at all, neither do physics, except particle systems, that are managed by the GPU, anyway, as the CPU isn't parallel enough to do it efficiently and fast.
Anyhow, large game worlds with lots of details not limited to graphics, but also regarding items interactivity, will eventually become the worst enemy of systems with smaller main RAM, and most probably only exclusives will manage to keep the problem away for the whole gen.

@DonFerrari This is also at least a partial answer to your point, I totally agree that scalability will keep graphics out of troubles, the problem will be the RAM needed by the CPU for all the things that can't be scaled down.

Just to add one point, the system on Series takes less RAM than on X1 from what I saw so the available ram is more than 25% increase. But yes it is possible that the 10GB will impact every system by the end of the generation and hold out what is possible to do. If we save enough RAM on the graphics theoretically the CPU wouldn't be the biggest problem, at least that is what is expected on the drop on resolution and texture... But well if instead of near 4K for Series X we have a 1080p then it will be very hard to cut enough to Series S so that it doesn't impact everything else.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Once devs start considering 16GB the norm, they also start making less efforts to fit games in lower RAM size. Sure, scaling down graphics you save a lot of memory, and initially 10GB won't be a problem, actually for cross-gen games that must run on old gen too, with its 8GB, they will never be a problem, but they could become later for current gen-only games and even worse for current and next gen cross-gen games. 12GB is 50% larger than last gen RAM, but 10GB is just 25% larger. With better CPU and GPU even just those additional 2GB can make us feel the generation leap at the beginning of this gen, and graphics scalability will keep problems away from graphics on top end models too until the end of this gen life, but later it could arrive the moment when having to run in the base model's 10GB will force to underuse the CPU, as CPU usage scales down much less downscaling graphics, particularly levels size and its logic, not graphic detail, so game world management related to it, and gameplay don't scale down at all, neither do physics, except particle systems, that are managed by the GPU, anyway, as the CPU isn't parallel enough to do it efficiently and fast.
Anyhow, large game worlds with lots of details not limited to graphics, but also regarding items interactivity, will eventually become the worst enemy of systems with smaller main RAM, and most probably only exclusives will manage to keep the problem away for the whole gen.

This isn't the first gen where consoles had different amounts of RAM, or just significantly different specs in general.

In the 6th gen Xbox had 64MB while Gamecube had 40MB and PS2 just 32MB. 

In the second half of the 8th gen games had to scale all the way from Xbox One X and PS4 Pro down to the base Xbox One.

What you say is true, but this gen there is one thing that changed: until 8th gen even base models had a huge RAM size increase compared to previous gen.
But this gen full specced models offer a big, not huge increase, and XS base model offers an increase quite small, smaller than the typical mid-life RAM upgrade anyone would do to their PC. And PC-console multiplats are more than in the past, and since PC gaming dropped DOS, with PC development comes the developers attitude to put less work than in the past on RAM usage optimisation.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!