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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware June 20-26 - Switch Sells 376K, PS5 Sells 226K, XS Sells 136K

yo33331 said:
Mandalore76 said:

The Lite Model does not account for 90% of Switch's weekly sales.  You have no basis to say that only 10% of Switch owners are home console gamers.    Nintendo's own data disputes your claim.

The hybrid model regularly outsells it to the point that a scalper's market exists for the hybrid over 4 years into its lifespan even when the Lite is in steady supply.  Lite model sales have only seen an increased ratio over the hybrid when the hybrid has been supply constrained.

Again, those research is from 2017, it's not relevant anymore. When Nintendo make a new one from this year or next year, then we will talk.

Also as I already said don't take the lite model as the all handheld buyers choice. Many many people love to buy the full package just to be on the safe side.

I've seen it in person. So from that 35M Switches sold since the Lite launched possibly at least 20-25M are primary using it and buying it for handheld use.

You have any data or our data is a fairy tale and make belief?



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yo33331 said:
Mandalore76 said:

The Lite Model does not account for 90% of Switch's weekly sales.  You have no basis to say that only 10% of Switch owners are home console gamers.    Nintendo's own data disputes your claim.

The hybrid model regularly outsells it to the point that a scalper's market exists for the hybrid over 4 years into its lifespan even when the Lite is in steady supply.  Lite model sales have only seen an increased ratio over the hybrid when the hybrid has been supply constrained.

Again, those research is from 2017, it's not relevant anymore. When Nintendo make a new one from this year or next year, then we will talk.

Also as I already said don't take the lite model as the all handheld buyers choice. Many many people love to buy the full package just to be on the safe side.

I've seen it in person. So from that 35M Switches sold since the Lite launched possibly at least 20-25M are primary using it and buying it for handheld use.

So, the supposed 90% of handheld only users are paying an extra $100 for the docked feature that they don't even use (or even more than that for those who buy the scalper units whenever the hybrid is out of stock)? 



yo33331 said:
Agente42 said:

You have any data or our data is a fairy tale and make belief?

What is the way in your opinion to get data from every single person in the moment of buying the console for what exact reason it is buying it ? because the raw sold numbers of Lite isn't the accurate way.

Your data is OK for 2017. It's not relevant anymore. As I already said in 2017 or even 2018, most of the buyers of the system in general are the hardcore fans, the more casual users often buys console after it's second year. We have around 80M more people since this research made in 2017.

When nintendo comes out again now or next year and gives official info, then we will talk.

so you don't have any data and your arguments are supported only by your beliefs? ok... 

forget this.



yo33331 said:
Mandalore76 said:

So, the supposed 90% of handheld only users are paying an extra $100 for the docked feature that they don't even use (or even more than that for those who buy the scalper units whenever the hybrid is out of stock)? 

No. They are paying for better battery, bigger screen, and most of them also really don't know every single difference between the two, so some of them are also paying just to be on the safe side to get the better version of the thing. Also the full version have extra ability - to be played home. They may take it for handheld however combined with the bigger battery and screen and also the few times they may use the home use of the console it makes it enough reason to get the expensive one.

Out of the dozen or so Switch users I know in real life, only one of them doesn't play it on their T.V., while the rest play handheld and home console.

While anecdotal evidence is the lowest form of evidence, your line of reasoning sounds logical, but one can make anything sound logical. The data that we have at this time suggests that most people play a mix of at home and T.V.

Also Nintendo Life Poll form a little less than a year ago has

23% handheld more than 80% of the time

37% on T.V. more than 80% of the time

34% uses fairly equally (30-70% T.V.)

This has 18807 Votes

This uptick could be due to covid-19 forcing people to be home, however even then it is used as a home console and people did pay for the ability to play it on tv and did use it as such.

Last edited by badskywalker - on 12 July 2021

yo33331 said:
Mandalore76 said:

So, the supposed 90% of handheld only users are paying an extra $100 for the docked feature that they don't even use (or even more than that for those who buy the scalper units whenever the hybrid is out of stock)? 

No. They are paying for better battery, bigger screen, and most of them also really don't know every single difference between the two, so some of them are also paying just to be on the safe side to get the better version of the thing. Also the full version have extra ability - to be played home. They may take it for handheld however combined with the bigger battery and screen and also the few times they may try the home feature of the console it makes it enough reason to get the expensive one.

Wouldn't a handheld only gamer prefer the more compact, truly portable version?  The hybrid screen is only 0.9" larger, and 4.3 ounces bulkier than the Lite.  If these are handheld only gamers, than they would be used to the DS and 3DS screens (4.88" XL model) which were even smaller than the Lite.  The handheld only crowd, especially when it comes to dedicated handheld gaming, are not the spare no expense crowd you make them out to be.  The more expensive data plan enabled Vita was the worst selling unit of its line.  The launch price of the 3DS had to be pricecut in less than a year, because the handheld only crowd was balking at paying $249 for a handheld only system.  But, we're to believe this same crowd is eager to shell out $100 extra for features they have no interest in?



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badskywalker said:
yo33331 said:

No. They are paying for better battery, bigger screen, and most of them also really don't know every single difference between the two, so some of them are also paying just to be on the safe side to get the better version of the thing. Also the full version have extra ability - to be played home. They may take it for handheld however combined with the bigger battery and screen and also the few times they may use the home use of the console it makes it enough reason to get the expensive one.

Out of the dozen or so Switch users I know in real life, only one of them doesn't play it on their T.V., while the rest play handheld and home console.

While anecdotal evidence is the lowest form of evidence, your line of reasoning sounds logical, but one can make anything sound logical. The data that we have at this time suggests that most people play a mix of at home and T.V.

Also Nintendo Life Poll form a little less than a year ago has

23% handheld more than 80% of the time

37% on T.V. more than 80% of the time

34% uses fairly equally (30-70% T.V.)

This has 18807 Votes

This uptick could be due to covid-19 forcing people to be home, however even then it is used as a home console and people did pay for the ability to play it on tv and did use it as such.

You have consumers buying games like consoles and not like handheld. The Switch strength is the dynamics of portables and consoles. You have the real researches show the hybrid uses and the guy negates all based only his opinion. Ok... the best is to ignore and await real data. 



yo33331 said:
badskywalker said:

Also Nintendo Life Poll form a little less than a year ago has

23% handheld more than 80% of the time

37% on T.V. more than 80% of the time

34% uses fairly equally (30-70% T.V.)

This has 18807 Votes

This is only 18807 people out of how many owners ? close to 90M. This is just 0.02% of all switch owners. It's not enough.

Also just because you have friends that play more handheld doesn't mean whole world is the same.

I've talked with many of the customers in the store that I worked in and they are playing primary in handheld mode.

Yeah, but its also the main evidence we have, you have presented nothing but anecdotal, while I have presented both anecdotal and an actual statistic, you are swatting all evidence away because it isn't large enough of a data pool. .02% of data (And at the time it was 70 Million, not the 90 Million you claim) is still greater than your provided .000012% assuming you talked to 10 people.

Plus when there is only three options we are statistically much more like to start getting the true numbers when we hit well below this number.  Kind of like how it is possible to hit 9/10 tails or higher,  much more often than getting at least 65/100 tails, 1.07% vs .18%. Statistically speaking I am much more likely to be right, even if a hundred people tell you a percentage the statistics simply suggests that the Nintendo Life poll is more likely to be correct. I'm not saying these numbers are accurate, I'm saying statistically the margin of error is less than your belief and your knowledge of some customers.

As for the the friends thing I did specifically say anecdotal evidence is the lowest form of evidence in science, fascinatingly you followed it up with what? Anecdotal evidence.

Edit:Wording

Last edited by badskywalker - on 12 July 2021

yo33331 said:

Okay there is no point in arguing you are here only nintendo fans and all of you are defending the switch obviously ..
I am not bitching switch's fate or something like that and I haven't been one from those who said year after year the switch will fall of a cliff.
I am just saying that In my opinion 2020/2021 is the peak period for the system and the 2022 is starting it's downfall. And I think that because of several factors (the age of the system, the saturation point, the new consoles with full stock for next year, and the price ) Switch will drop to around 15M units. This is my prediction, that's it. We will see the answer of this by next year. There is no point in arguing now. If it is so special and so home and handheld then it have to do Wii + DS numbers which is equal to 255M. Come on I dear you. Cuz if many people buy it for home use and many other for handheld it have to at least beat the DS numbers right ? It won't even manage to do that let alone 255M.

curl-6 said:

You may not be impressed and that's fair enough, but it is not "very close" really; Switch has over 6 times as much useable RAM and GPU technology a decade more modern. Obviously as a device that has to function as a portable it cannot offer a generational jump in raw power but the Switch's performance as a console is still significantly ahead of PS3 and 360.

Take Crysis. Switch compared to PS3/360 has a higher resolution, higher framerate, more foliage, better effects work for water, motion blur, and depth of field, plus the addition of SVOGI which is a form of ray traced global illumination. The gap over PS3/360 is quite clear.

Crysis is one game. I've seen many many games on switch and watched most of the analysis on digital foundry and it's not good.

Yes it has some games ported that are even not available on the PS3 and 360 however they are not great. Bad framerates, cutting corners with graphics with resolutions. It's bad in comparison to home console like PS4/PS5/XBOX.

That's why I am saying it's more close to PS3 and 360 than the next console. therefore switch is not just 1 generation behind. graphical and in performance.

It's almost 2 generations behind.

I am not doubting it's technology or that it has more ram.

Just the final execution is more like PS3 on the go than PS4 or xbox.

Kakadu18 said:

Bold: alot of people apparently. All statistics we have, that other people here already showed you point to many people are playing docked a significant part of the time.

'Who would do what I wouldn't' is your argument. You're very clever.

Yes I am clever. It's not only me, I've worked in a store and many many people bought the home consoles for home use, and almost all of switch buyers bough it because they will be playing it in handheld. The statistic is only one, research from 2017. The start of the console life, when normally the most buyers are hardcore fans. For every console not only switch. Always the first 1 to 2 years majority of the buyers are it's die hard hardcore fans and gamers.

Let Nintendo do one new research now and show it. Then we will talk.

SKMBlake said:

Well according to this logic, the PS4 Pro would be the best selling PS4 since launch, but it isn't, the PS4 Pro + Slim sales were like 1/4 or even 1/5 for the PS4 Pro.

But yes, people are more willing to buy the full PS5 rather than the PS5 DE, and the Series X rather than the Series S

Well now there is a difference. The PS4 pro were only giving PS4 users a little higher resolution nothing more. And also for that experience you are required to have 4K TV.

Also how do you know what is the ratio to slim and pro ? there were only 1 statistic back from 2017. PS4 sold 50M since then.

About the PS5 and XBOX, yes, most people are buying the expensives models. Of course always will have people that will just buy the base model. But those with the full package are often way more.

Otter said:

Does PS5 have Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Pokemon, Breath of the Wild?

Anecdotally I know way more people who use the Switch as fun casual gaming device with friends, than those who use it primarily as a portable. Nintendo also puts a heavy emphasis on this in their marketing. Trying to deduce the proportion of gamers who buy it for portability based on its spec doesn't really get you anywhere. In real life no cares that Mario Kart 8 is not in 4k. 

No it, does not have them.

Wii U had them and was home console only. And how many people bough it ? how many ? not even 14M. Pathetic ..

Just because some people buy the switch and decide to use it's extra ability as a home console sometimes, doesn't mean that the people have bought it specifically for this. But if it couldn't do handheld than many many users would not buy it. That's like to say that people buys smartphones because to watch videos or browse the internet. They just use those extras because they are there. But even if they were not they would buy it again. Because they need it's primary function - phone.

WiiU had an endless array of problems that led to it's failure, being a home console is not one of them.



yo33331 said:

Wii U had them and was home console only. And how many people bough it ? how many ? not even 14M. Pathetic ..

I mean if this is the core of your argument, Switch is almost outselling Wii U and 3DS combined and even if your cliff theory is anything close to reality (which I don't believe it is) Switch lifetime sales would be 130 MI, a 40 million surplus. And this of course not counting double ownership. Indeed I'm convinced the majority Wii U owners are hardcore Nintendo fans who also owned a 3DS, but let's pretend there is no double ownership for a second

Let's say 100% of Switch userbase is from former 3DS owners (not true yet, but will likely be true eventually) and they exclusively play undocked (doubt to be true, but let's pretend). That's 76 million against a supposed 130 million Switch LTS. Considering 100% of Wii U owners bought a Switch why do you think the surplus of 40 million are all from other handhelds users and not from home console users? 

I mean, last generation handhelds sold a mere 16 million outside 3DS (Vita)

Meanwhile home consoles sold 165 million outside Wii U (PS4+Xbox)

Isn't clear home console market number of customers is just... you know... bigger and more likely to buy a Switch than a pretty such nonexistent handheld market?



yo33331 said:

What about DS ? Where are all the DS buyers ? Switch is not making 154M.

Also as I said in my previous comment, if switch is so special and one of a kind, and there is so many gamers bought it for home use, and another many gamers bought it for handheld why not switch make Wii + DS numbers ? 255M where are they ? common I want to see them. It won't even reach DS total lifetime sales let alone 255M.

What about Wii buyers? They don't exist? They become PS4 and Xbone owners? They stopped gaming? 

You are REALLY forgetting double ownership. Handheld gamers can also be home console gamers, those are not disjoint groups. Switch is not used for handheld purposes only, nor for home console purposes only. It's used for both