By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Sections you hate in games you love

Runa216 said:
DragonRouge said:

Heat Man level in Megaman 2.

Catwoman sections in Arkham City.

The stars in the winged cap stage in Super Mario 64.

The fu#$@ fishing mini game in Twilight Princess.

The "cubic puzzle" stage in God of War 3.

What was bad about Heat Man's stage? 

Isn't that the level where there's a long ass bridge of invisible platforms that you have to walk across, and there's one part where they try to trick you into falling and dying by breaking the pattern towards the end? Honestly not a super bad or hard part, it's pretty easy once you know what to do and given Mega man is based on repetition that's not such a bad thing. But man it's also so boring once you know what to do. It's such filler, like the kind of thing a Mario Maker level creator would do to pad out their level when they didn't know what else to do with it. 

Honestly, a lot of Megaman 2's levels can suck a big fat rotted dick. And I have to specify rotted to make sure it's known I mean that in a bad way. 



Around the Network
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Runa216 said:

What was bad about Heat Man's stage? 

Isn't that the level where there's a long ass bridge of invisible platforms that you have to walk across, and there's one part where they try to trick you into falling and dying by breaking the pattern towards the end? Honestly not a super bad or hard part, it's pretty easy once you know what to do and given Mega man is based on repetition that's not such a bad thing. But man it's also so boring once you know what to do. It's such filler, like the kind of thing a Mario Maker level creator would do to pad out their level when they didn't know what else to do with it. 

Honestly, a lot of Megaman 2's levels can suck a big fat rotted dick. And I have to specify rotted to make sure it's known I mean that in a bad way. 

Yeah, that is the level, but a lot of Mega Man's game design is constructed around trial and error and pattern recognition. The Whole point is to observe, to act, and to learn from your mistakes. you learn the pattern and speed in which the block pattern repeats, then you die once when the pattern swaps. you lose one life and you're now educated on what not to do next. That's how a lot of game design worked back then. 

And it's not like the levels were long or anything. Seriously, Mega Man levels from beginning to end were regularly like 2-5 minutes, so it's not like you're ever too far away from trying again. 

Sure, SOME of their levels and design choices were cheap and bullshit to make you die (really bad in MEga Man 1 and 3), but this is not one of those examples. I'd take this over like 90% of Mega Man 1 and Mega Man 3's level design any day.



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Runa216 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Isn't that the level where there's a long ass bridge of invisible platforms that you have to walk across, and there's one part where they try to trick you into falling and dying by breaking the pattern towards the end? Honestly not a super bad or hard part, it's pretty easy once you know what to do and given Mega man is based on repetition that's not such a bad thing. But man it's also so boring once you know what to do. It's such filler, like the kind of thing a Mario Maker level creator would do to pad out their level when they didn't know what else to do with it. 

Honestly, a lot of Megaman 2's levels can suck a big fat rotted dick. And I have to specify rotted to make sure it's known I mean that in a bad way. 

Yeah, that is the level, but a lot of Mega Man's game design is constructed around trial and error and pattern recognition. The Whole point is to observe, to act, and to learn from your mistakes. you learn the pattern and speed in which the block pattern repeats, then you die once when the pattern swaps. you lose one life and you're now educated on what not to do next. That's how a lot of game design worked back then. 

And it's not like the levels were long or anything. Seriously, Mega Man levels from beginning to end were regularly like 2-5 minutes, so it's not like you're ever too far away from trying again. 

Sure, SOME of their levels and design choices were cheap and bullshit to make you die (really bad in MEga Man 1 and 3), but this is not one of those examples. I'd take this over like 90% of Mega Man 1 and Mega Man 3's level design any day.

@bold yea, but I already agreed that's not the problem with it, right? The problem with it is that once you learn how to do it, it's just boring. Replaying that stage makes you realize 50% of it is a filler challenge that isn't even fun. Waiting for blocks to appear for 2 minutes straight isn't fun, it's bland. 

Also, Mega Man 1 has better level design than 2. Which I know is a controversial opinion, and there's definitely parts of 1 that are as bad as the worst of 2 (the annoying ass big robots that are basically invincible and put into the worst spots imaginable, a few of the checkpoints in the game starting you in the middle of enemy routes). But 1 is overall much more consistent. Actually there is one stage that 1 doesn't have anything near as bad which is that stage in Mega man 2 where you have to do near pixel-perfect dodges in order to dodge quick man's lasers without the time stopper powerup. Remember when the internet unanimously agreed the best thing about classic Mega Man was the ability to do things in different orders and still play the stages perfectly fine, with certain powerups just making the stage slightly easier or the final boss much easier? Remember when Mega Man 2 was like "fuck that lmao heres some lasers bitch".



More that come to mind:

- The fight with/escape from the long-armed woman in The Evil Within where you have to to ignite/extinguish the gas lines. Horribly frustrating when she can one-hit you and here's almost nowhere to avoid her in the enclosed spaces.

- All Ghillied Up in COD4. A boring and drawn out game of follow-the-leader where any deviation from the script is punished by death.

- The secret true final boss of Project Zero 2: Wii Edition. Not only is it basically pure luck as she one-hits you if she gets close enough and teleports around so that if she appears anywhere near you you're instantly killed, but every time you die you're booted back to the main menu and have to load your file and watch an unskippable cutscene. Fucking horrible design, in an otherwise great game.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Runa216 said:

Yeah, that is the level, but a lot of Mega Man's game design is constructed around trial and error and pattern recognition. The Whole point is to observe, to act, and to learn from your mistakes. you learn the pattern and speed in which the block pattern repeats, then you die once when the pattern swaps. you lose one life and you're now educated on what not to do next. That's how a lot of game design worked back then. 

And it's not like the levels were long or anything. Seriously, Mega Man levels from beginning to end were regularly like 2-5 minutes, so it's not like you're ever too far away from trying again. 

Sure, SOME of their levels and design choices were cheap and bullshit to make you die (really bad in MEga Man 1 and 3), but this is not one of those examples. I'd take this over like 90% of Mega Man 1 and Mega Man 3's level design any day.

@bold yea, but I already agreed that's not the problem with it, right? The problem with it is that once you learn how to do it, it's just boring. Replaying that stage makes you realize 50% of it is a filler challenge that isn't even fun. Waiting for blocks to appear for 2 minutes straight isn't fun, it's bland. 

Also, Mega Man 1 has better level design than 2. Which I know is a controversial opinion, and there's definitely parts of 1 that are as bad as the worst of 2 (the annoying ass big robots that are basically invincible and put into the worst spots imaginable, a few of the checkpoints in the game starting you in the middle of enemy routes). But 1 is overall much more consistent. Actually there is one stage that 1 doesn't have anything near as bad which is that stage in Mega man 2 where you have to do near pixel-perfect dodges in order to dodge quick man's lasers without the time stopper powerup. Remember when the internet unanimously agreed the best thing about classic Mega Man was the ability to do things in different orders and still play the stages perfectly fine, with certain powerups just making the stage slightly easier or the final boss much easier? Remember when Mega Man 2 was like "fuck that lmao heres some lasers bitch".

what are you even on about? I just went back and played megaman 1-6 through the legacy collection and 2 was the only one where I didn't have to stop to use the rewind feature every 10 seconds. 1 and 3 were terrible for it (Well, 3's post-game but pre-wily stages were bad, the rest was alright). Like, every single level in Mega Man 1 I had some feeling of 'well that's just not fair' at least a dozen times. Too many levels outright had requirements you couldn't possibly know. 

And what about the lasers? They're hard, for sure, but I can get through those segments without dying pretty much every time and always have. Like HEat Man's stage, you die from your mistake once and learn from it. Next time you really shouldn't have too much difficulty knowing where to go and what to do. In mega man 1, there's an enemy that is in every stage that, if he hits you, he takes like 40% of your health. the only way to avoid damage is to kill him fast enough (nearly impossible even with the legacy collection's quick shot feature) or to slide under his jump. but only his high jump. And only if you time it perfectly and/or know it's coming. and it's completely random. (I literally sat there for half an hour just rewinding the game and watching his patterns over and over and over again to see if I could determine a pattern and it was literally never consistent.)

Mega Man 2: Challenging instant-kill problems that are consistent and readable, requiring you to learn and adapt. 

Mega Man 1: random shit you have little to no control over that will harshly punish you sometimes no matter how good you are. 

Don't even TRY to tell me these are the same. That one enemy in particular, the one right at the end of Cutman's stage (it's like a jackhammer robot) that has two jumps - one high and one low - is virtually impossible to avoid taking damage unless you get lucky and it HAPPENs to chose to do its high jump right when you're next to it. And it keeps jumping towards you. and you can't know what jump it's doing until it's doing it. Maybe there's some subtle hint that I couldn't find, but I was scanning its every pixel over and over again literally hundreds of times in a row with no discernable pattern or readable tells. 

"Replaying that stage makes you realize 50% of it is a filler challenge that isn't even fun." What even is this? You're selectively applying logic to a thing you don't like that could literally be broadly applied to like 99% of all gameplay actions and design choices in any game. I could apply this very same logic of everything being filler or repetitive to pretty much any screen on any mega man game (or any screen of any game ever, really). I get that you don't like this particular style of challenge but come on. Your logic really doesn't hold up, like at all. Your examples do not tell the tale you wish to tell. 



My Console Library:

PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Around the Network

I admire you guys for remembering so much shit of games you've played, I barely remember anything substantial from the last 3 I've touched.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Runa216 said:

what are you even on about? I just went back and played megaman 1-6 through the legacy collection and 2 was the only one where I didn't have to stop to use the rewind feature every 10 seconds. 1 and 3 were terrible for it (Well, 3's post-game but pre-wily stages were bad, the rest was alright). Like, every single level in Mega Man 1 I had some feeling of 'well that's just not fair' at least a dozen times. Too many levels outright had requirements you couldn't possibly know. 

And what about the lasers? They're hard, for sure, but I can get through those segments without dying pretty much every time and always have. Like HEat Man's stage, you die from your mistake once and learn from it. Next time you really shouldn't have too much difficulty knowing where to go and what to do. In mega man 1, there's an enemy that is in every stage that, if he hits you, he takes like 40% of your health. the only way to avoid damage is to kill him fast enough (nearly impossible even with the legacy collection's quick shot feature) or to slide under his jump. but only his high jump. And only if you time it perfectly and/or know it's coming. and it's completely random. (I literally sat there for half an hour just rewinding the game and watching his patterns over and over and over again to see if I could determine a pattern and it was literally never consistent.)

Mega Man 2: Challenging instant-kill problems that are consistent and readable, requiring you to learn and adapt. 

Mega Man 1: random shit you have little to no control over that will harshly punish you sometimes no matter how good you are. 

Don't even TRY to tell me these are the same. That one enemy in particular, the one right at the end of Cutman's stage (it's like a jackhammer robot) that has two jumps - one high and one low - is virtually impossible to avoid taking damage unless you get lucky and it HAPPENs to chose to do its high jump right when you're next to it. And it keeps jumping towards you. and you can't know what jump it's doing until it's doing it. Maybe there's some subtle hint that I couldn't find, but I was scanning its every pixel over and over again literally hundreds of times in a row with no discernable pattern or readable tells. 

"Replaying that stage makes you realize 50% of it is a filler challenge that isn't even fun." What even is this? You're selectively applying logic to a thing you don't like that could literally be broadly applied to like 99% of all gameplay actions and design choices in any game. I could apply this very same logic of everything being filler or repetitive to pretty much any screen on any mega man game (or any screen of any game ever, really). I get that you don't like this particular style of challenge but come on. Your logic really doesn't hold up, like at all. Your examples do not tell the tale you wish to tell. 

This reply sounds so weirdly elitist, with such an unnecessary tinge of superiority complex, that I'm not even going to bother with it. ~I'm sorry for expressing a different opinion and trying to use my own personal experiences with something to extrapolate why someone else might not like a level in a videogame, Runa~



Metallox said:

I admire you guys for remembering so much shit of games you've played, I barely remember anything substantial from the last 3 I've touched.

Helps when for a lot of my examples I had to repeat them a zillion fucking times cos I kept dying/failing. :P



Runa216 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Isn't that the level where there's a long ass bridge of invisible platforms that you have to walk across, and there's one part where they try to trick you into falling and dying by breaking the pattern towards the end? Honestly not a super bad or hard part, it's pretty easy once you know what to do and given Mega man is based on repetition that's not such a bad thing. But man it's also so boring once you know what to do. It's such filler, like the kind of thing a Mario Maker level creator would do to pad out their level when they didn't know what else to do with it. 

Honestly, a lot of Megaman 2's levels can suck a big fat rotted dick. And I have to specify rotted to make sure it's known I mean that in a bad way. 

Yeah, that is the level, but a lot of Mega Man's game design is constructed around trial and error and pattern recognition. The Whole point is to observe, to act, and to learn from your mistakes. you learn the pattern and speed in which the block pattern repeats, then you die once when the pattern swaps. you lose one life and you're now educated on what not to do next. That's how a lot of game design worked back then. 

And it's not like the levels were long or anything. Seriously, Mega Man levels from beginning to end were regularly like 2-5 minutes, so it's not like you're ever too far away from trying again. 

Sure, SOME of their levels and design choices were cheap and bullshit to make you die (really bad in MEga Man 1 and 3), but this is not one of those examples. I'd take this over like 90% of Mega Man 1 and Mega Man 3's level design any day.

Bolded part:

That is how most game design still is today. Scripted event that don't trigger until you pass a certain point or do a certain action. In some FPS games this can be really telling because enemy soldiers are just hanging around until you pass a certain point when they suddenly go all aggro. Modern games have become better at hiding this but it still holds true in most cases. It's just that modern games a lot of the time are made so damn easy so you don't notice this because you rarely die and don't have to repeat play the same section. 

This has been a wish from me for a long time, that games would focus on AI/living world rather than shiny graphics so you don't have scripted events that play out the same every time. I remember this was a promise with S.T.A.L.K.E.R long before its release, about everything about this was axed before the game released. 

EDIT:// When talking about S.T.A.L.K.E.R I think the original plan for the game was that there was a competing faction in game that could actually finish the game if you lulled around to much or didn't interfere with them in game, this was also axed. To me this is great game design that puts ACTUAL urgency to progress. 

Last edited by Spindel - on 28 May 2021

DragonRouge said:

Heat Man level in Megaman 2.

Catwoman sections in Arkham City.

The stars in the winged cap stage in Super Mario 64.

The fu#$@ fishing mini game in Twilight Princess.

The "cubic puzzle" stage in God of War 3.

I always made sure I had "Item 2" for Heat Man's stage, I'd ride it over all those blocks, no skill required.



Signature goes here!