Blood_Tears said:
Hmmm it seems like the majority of the Xbox fanbase in the UK doesn't seem to care for physical boxed games anymore, regardless of Gamepass or not. |
Yeah and you have to consider that 1/3rd of Xbox Series owners have to be digital only with the Series S and some folks on the Xbox One have the all digital version.
Last edited by jason1637 - on 11 May 2021
| Kyuu said: Resident Evil 7's UK split at launch was apparently "almost" two thirds on PS4, so around 65%~ for the PS ecosystem vs RE8's 80%. Ridiculously onesided considering this is Xbox's 2nd biggest market. I know digital not being counted and the shortages may be playing some role, but this is too much to ignore. Not that I see the point of securing exclusives that wouldn't have sold very well on the competing platform anyway. The weirdest shit is Sony/Square making the Yuffie DLC exclusive on PS5; a move that shouldn't benefit either of them with the shortages in mind, but there it is. |
It's not ridiculously onesided. The move is towards digital anyways. In these sales split, I rarely see people mention how the physical sales not only almost always get smaller and smaller, but are also become a smaller share of the total sales.
RE8 physical is 40% smaller than RE7.
Hitman 3 physical was only 17% higher than Hitman 2 physical sales, yet IO Interactive have said total Hitman 3 sales are 300% higher than Hitman 2. Where did the rest of the 283% growth come from? Seeing how Hitman 3 vanished from the retail charts the following week, it's obvious it was digital.
Hitman 3 sold 300% better than Hitman 2 | PC Gamer
It's been confirmed by analysts that Xbox users are by far the most digital out of the big three. To quote: "Digital game sales on the Xbox One are far higher than they are on PlayStation or Nintendo systems, according to analyst Daniel Ahmad", and "I really need to stress how large the digital shares are on Xbox compared to other platforms." Xbox themselves have said GP users, on average, buy more games. Obviously, they will be geared towards digital purchases. Why would Xbox users, who's entire ecosystem is now so digital-focused, go out and buy physical discs?
Xbox One Has Higher Ratio Of Digital Game Sales Than Other Platforms – Analyst (gamingbolt.com)
Last edited by hiccupthehuman - on 11 May 2021
Yes yes, we all know Sony didn’t get any Squeenix timed exclusives until GamePass rolled out. And I’m sure they’re very unhappy that more people are ditching physical copies and going digital. Not only do they make more money off the sale, but that copy can’t then be traded in for credit, creating a used copy that Squeenix gets zero money from. They probably don’t like more money.
Kyuu said:
Thank you for sharing Daniel Ahmed's post (I wasn't really aware of it). But your old information is misleading for the following reasons: 1. Playstation's digital ratios saw a rapid growth from 37% in FY2018 (coinciding with the date of Daniel's post) to 65% in FY2020 (79% in Q4). So unless you have an evidence that Xbox had a similar growth and kept the advantage (which we didn't even know how big it was exactly) this evidence doesn't amount to much. Physical numbers are onesided as hell while digital is guesswork. |
1. Why would you expect Xbox to NOT have a similar rapid growth of digital sales? The entire industry is moving towards digital, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that this momentum towards digital would have suddenly slowed or stopped only for Xbox in 2018-2020. Xbox has been at the forefront of pushing digital: Xbox Play Anywhere (buy a game once and own it across Xbox, PC and soon Xcloud - only for digital games), the first manufacturer to produce a digital-only console, Game Pass, the Microsoft Rewards program that gives credit for game purchases (only for digital purchases), Quick Resume (digital games only), promotion of digital game sales at retailers like Wal-Mart and Best Buy, and XCloud. And of course, the pandemic, which has accelerated the shift to digital for everyone.
2. Once someone makes the switch to digital, they are likely to stay digital. The shift to digital has been onesided; the average customer goes from physical -> digital, not digital -> physical. Also, funny you mentioned RE8 and Nier: Replicant because the Microsoft Rewards program I mentioned earlier actually did have special deals for those games (it only applied to digital purchases, of course)
From their Q3 2021 earnings: "Xbox content and services revenue grew 34% driven by strength from third-party titles, Xbox Game Pass subscriptions, and first-party titles"
From their Q2 2021 earnings: "We exceeded $2 billion in revenue from third-party titles this quarter for the first time."
Sales revenue seem pretty good to me.
As I said, RE8 physical is down 40% from RE7. This should mean that RE8 is having a catastrophic launch, yet no one makes that argument. Why? Because everyone knows physical sales alone don't speak about a game's performance. Yet, those same physical sales are enough to talk doom and gloom about Xbox game sales performance. Hmmm... interesting.
Last edited by hiccupthehuman - on 11 May 2021
| Dulfite said: People always wanting to hate on Gamepass really annoy me. The program has saved me hundreds of dollars. It has allowed me to try and enjoy games I wouldn't have ever bought, and try and hate games I would have otherwise purchased regretfully. Microsoft is obviously paying these third parties well because if not, why would they put their games on Gamepass? And if MS is paying them well, then either they are making a lot of money off of an increasing subscriber base, or they are anticipating they will based on data they have collected so far. Gamepass is great for consumers, great for investors, great for developers. The only people I see hate on it are the ones who are obsessed with sales figures and treat them like they are everything. This is 2021 people, it's very much about subscription models, will one day be ALL about subscription models, and it will NEVER go back to ALL being about sales figures again. |
It's not hate, and the pass is a sweet deal for customers. The thing is, it seems a little *too* sweet, feels like something will have to give eventually. Some party will start thinking they could be making more money in this.
Can't believe this game sells that much.
Kyuu said:
Because how much higher can you get than 79%? lol. You said it yourself, the entire industry is moving towards digital, hence PS5 has a Digital Edition that undercuts the standard model by $100 without sacrificing specs. You'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that MS has a commanding and universal digital ratio lead for titles that aren't on Game Pass. The burden of proof is on you. I'm giving you hard data, you're responding with wild assumptions. We aren't stuck in January 2019 (to put things into perspective, Playstation's FY2018 digital ratio only grew by 5%~ over FY2017, the rapid growth began with FY2019). Nintendo and Playstation are growing as well, and unlike Microsoft, they don't shy away in reporting their gaming profits. "Losing market share" and "declining" aren't mutually inclusive. Even if we assume RE8 UK is representative of what's to come throughout the generation in every region and every game and every week (which it's NOT!!! Duh!), that wouldn't automatically disqualify Xbox + Game Pass from being a better selling and more successful and profitable platform than it was last generation. Sony's dominance in hardware and software doesn't tell the whole story. |
You're the one who implied that Xbox game sales were declining, and that Sony would secure more exclusives because of it, specifically JPN games. The burden of proof is on you to prove that Xbox game sales have plummeted. I have provided evidence that Xbox game sales were healthy.
Not to mention that the 79% split includes ALL DIGITAL CONTENT, which includes digital-only releases and add-on content. This is misleading data. Full game sales are not 79% digital. Concrete data from Games Industry for full game downloads for select PS games in the UK in 2020:
The Last of Us Part 2:
Total sales: 543,218
Total digital: 198,927 (36.6% digital)
Ghost of Tsushima:
Total sales: 373,472
Total digital: 180,949 (48.5% digital)
Spider-Man: Miles Morales:
Total sales: 400,636
Total digital: 127,007 (31.7% digital)
It's nowhere near 79%. None even reached 50%. And by the way, even Ghost of Tsushima had higher digital sales than normal, seeing as how physical printing of the game fell right during the peak of the pandemic and faced shortages. "PlayStation Japan has advised customers to buy the digital version of Ghost of Tsushima."
PlayStation Japan warns of Ghost of Tsushima stock shortage | GamesIndustry.biz
Not that hard to see the ratio of digital being greatly in favor of MS.
With regards to JPN games, I feel optimist that Xbox will have more JPN games than the previous gen. Weird coincidence that the best performance for the franchise comes from when it also releases simultaneously on Xbox.
SEGA's Shuji Utsumi told Famitsu that Yakuza 7 was the most successful title in the franchise worldwide
— Nibel (@Nibellion) May 12, 2021
He also stated that SEGA wants to "globally expand" ATLUS games by releasing them simultaneously worldwide and possibly on multiple platformshttps://t.co/NaEuCooXv7 pic.twitter.com/uF6YtLRTco
EDIT: woops repeat post
Last edited by hiccupthehuman - on 13 May 2021
Kyuu said:
You're asserting your guesswork as some sort of truth without providing the proof, whereas I'm not ashamed to admit that my predictions/deductions are pretty much educated guesses. My comment about the sales being "ridiculously onesided" concerned the retail numbers alone (fact), which I don't see digital sales having a significant enough impact on to turn it into a healthy split (guess). My other argument on AAA exclusive deals (especially from Japan) with Playstation was a deduction based on a number of hints, trends, and facts (3 AAA exclusives from Square alone already) among other information. It wouldn't be my fault if you're mixing my guesses with my facts; I may well be wrong in my expectations like everyone else could be. Whether or not Xbox share (hardware and/or software) is reduced, or even if the sales are declined, does not tell us enough about Xbox's level of success due to the Game Pass factor which remains a mystery in a way. I'm not very optimistic about Game Pass myself, but it is something of an unexplored territory, so anything can happen. Digital ratios do not apply on equal measures across all games, that was actually one of the points I emphasized on. But the 79% does show a huge growth (that should extend to AAA games in some capacity; common sense) since FY2018 which is the year you're basing your argument on. You are failing to provide a more recent evidence -let alone proof- that Xbox retains the digital ratio advantage it appears to have had in 2019, which let me reiterate, we don't know how big of an advantage it exactly was or how it applied to the different games, genres, regions and so on and so forth. I don't think this chart is helping your case at all. It suggests that single player focused games tend to have weaker digital ratios (which may be the case on Xbox too as implied by Valhalla, Odyssey, Jedi Order, and Avengers); the games you handpicked are therefore very misleading. You're also downplaying Ghost of Tsushima's ratio as though it's the only game to have possibly suffered physical shortages in some regions, just to push your narrative. You can't prove that games with high digital ratios (primarily multiplayer) didn't have a high digital ratio on Playstation as well. Do these UK numbers include PC sales? I sure hope they don't because that would obliterate your assumption as far as UK in concerned. Nothing whatsoever hints at the huge Xbox advantage you insist on. And just to make myself clear again "Digital ratios vary case by case". This is what your chart shows. Until someone confirms RE8's digital ratios, all you're doing is throwing a bunch of assumptions and expect me to nod. Yakuza 7 is neither a AAA game nor a massive seller, and it was a launch timed-exclusive for Xbox, which may have helped it stand out due to the weak Xbox launch lineup. But of course in an ideal world, multiplats in most cases will sell better than their exclusive counterpart. Unfortunately, that's not going to stop Sony from making big exclusivity deals like they already did with Square Enix. Don't be shocked if Monster Hunter World 2 skips Xbox for 6-24 months. I think 3rd party exclusives that aren't built around the hardware's unique features/specs are terrible for the industry, but who gives a shit about what I think? Certainly not Sony. |
"Nothing whatsoever hints at the huge Xbox advantage you insist on."
We have an analyst literally come out and say that digital sales on Xbox are higher as a proportion of their total game sales. Not me. An analyst. Also I never said that Xbox has an advantage in overall total game sales. What I said is that it doesn't make sense to judge the health of a game's sale performance on shrinking physical alone for both Xbox and PS (but primarily Xbox). Which I think is a very reasonable statement. You wrongfully say PS digital downloads for full games are at 79% ratio, and that Xbox digital sales ratio couldn't be that much higher, I prove you wrong. What more is there to say? Why are you dismissing an analyst's word from 2019 as if was like 5+ years ago?
"which I don't see digital sales having a significant enough impact on to turn it into a healthy split"
What do you mean by a "healthy split"? That sounds like Internet console warrior mindset. You really think third-party devs view their game sales like console warriors do? They care more about breaking even, having as much profits as possible, high player retention, word-of-mouth (which you do all these by being multiplat), reviews, etc. The ratio could be 99%/1% PS/Xbox but if that 1% on Xbox returns triple their investments, they'd be happy.
"You can't prove that games with high digital ratios (primarily multiplayer) didn't have a high digital ratio on Playstation as well."
You can't prove that games with low digital ratios didn't have a low digital ratios on Xbox as well. As you say, "digital ratios vary case by case", so can physical ratios vary case by case.
"You're also downplaying Ghost of Tsushima's ratio as though it's the only game to have possibly suffered physical shortages in some regions, just to push your narrative."
Which other game listed in there launched in that critical time period when lockdown/work-from-home started (end of March to end of summer), which would have had the greatest impact on printing production? The vast majority of the other games listed launched outside that window.
And don't get me wrong, I do believe that game sales on PS are more than game sales on Xbox in the UK. If you thought that I was trying to imply that Xbox sold more games than PS by making up through digital sales, then that was not my intention. My whole point, again, was that just using physical game sales to base success on a game's performance means nothing, and will continue to mean nothing going forward. And that Xbox is doing fine when it comes to game sales market share considered.
Also, yeah Japanese game sales are also higher by default on PS. And yeah, Sony secured some Square Enix Japanese exclusives. But don't get it wrong, Sony isn't funding the project, Square Enix didn't offer those games as exclusives for free because of the high sales, Sony secured those deals by paying for them. Because even if say those big AAA Japanese games have a 85%/15% split on PS/Xbox, that would essentially be a 15% profit for a game just tossed out the window. And for games costing in the 50-100 million $ in production, those can be break it or make it figures.
Back to Japanese games on Xbox. At this moment, there are more JPN games being announced/releasing for Xbox in this first year than in the entire Xbox One generation pre-GP. Nier Replicant just came out same day when Automata was timed, we have Judgment sequel coming day one when Judgment was exclusive, Octopath Traveler coming to Xbox first, Scarlet Nexus, Demon Slayer, Dragon Quest Builders just came out... I do not see the hints, trends or facts you are seeing of Jpn games jumping only on Sony (minus the ones where Sony has to pay for deals)
Last edited by hiccupthehuman - on 13 May 2021
There we go. From the UK monthly: Total RE8 sales split = PS: 58%, XB: 31%, PC: 11%
So when you do include digital sales, the RE8 console split is 65%/35% PS/XB, which is much more in line with the ~60%/40% PS/XB split in the UK.
As I had always said, digital sales on Xbox are higher, and balance things out.
Not that the split matters all that much, it's all about profits anyway. PC is "only" an 11% split, so according to the logic of some people here, developers will soon abandon PC gaming because of its "minuscule market share". When in reality even Sony is now jumping into PC gaming for the first time ever ;p.
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