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Forums - Politics Discussion - Gina Carano - Disney fired her, what does that solve?

shikamaru317 said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

Disney are such fucking hypocritcs, yes they can cast and fire everyone but the hipocrisie for this company that only money is important , trying to be all justice and we love black people and gina is a racist etc. that goes all out the window when money enters the picture and then its " lets make this black character irrelevant because we dont want to upset china !!! "

About Gina , she posted that stupid shit yes, then what ? you want her dead? Living under a bridge? to never work again ?

Yeah, it's hypocrisy for sure. I mean this is the same Disney that was ok with Liu Yifei posting support for the Hong Kong police on Chinese social media site Weibo, police who at the time were cracking down on pro-democracy protests and shooting out the eyes of pro-democracy demonstrators with rubber bullets amongst many other examples of brutality. The same Disney who thanked the government of the Xinjiang Autonomous region for allowing them to film Mulan there, a government that is currently being criticized for human rights abuses against the Uyghur people, including rape, torture, and forced sterilization. The same Disney who constantly props up Finn as example of a well-written black character, despite the fact that they they purposefully lessened his role in the trilogy and shrunk him on the Chinese movie posters so that the movies would perform better at the Chinese box office. The same Disney who was ok with the fact that Gina's co-star tweeted that Trump supporters were basically Nazis, and who posted a fake pic of children in Israel claiming the pic was of children at the US detention centers on the Mexican border. The same Disney that reportedly dropped Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow on Pirates of the Carribean due to Amber Heard's allegations against him, and is reportedly now considering Amber Heard for both a role on Star Wars: The Acolyte and the live-action remake of Tangled, despite evidence that it was in fact her who was abusing him, despite his other past lovers coming to his defense, despite evidence that she fabricated her evidence against him. 

You know that hypocrisy and growth are not necessarily the same thing, right? Like, it's not hypocritical to have an opinion/belief, then change that opinion/belief as time goes on, right? Like, They fucked up with Johnny Depp, but maybe after seeing that fuckup they decided not to let it happen again and thus canned Carano's ass. 

You need to stop conflating the two. Someone (or a corporation) acting different in similar situations based on a combination of the subtle details and the passage of time is not hypocrisy, and certain folks out there (Read: All reactionaries) would do well to remember that. 

I don't want to Thanos the entire world's population anymore like I did when I was 13. I still think that humans are a pox upon the land, but I don't wanna kill everyone to save the planet anymore. Does that make me a hypocrite? No, it means I grew up. You don't get to judge a person or corporation's growth based on what's convenient to your beliefs or opinions on a matter. Gina Carano absolutely deserves to be fired and yes, ostracized from the industry for the things she said and the opinions she has. Johnny Depp's cancellation should have no bearing on that fact. 

If I started going around spewing racial slurs and other bigoted language, using my power and influence to push those ignorant agendas, and generally doing harm to minority groups, Any company has the right to not hire me based off that, ESPECIALLY if that company is one of the biggest media corporations in our history, a company that is famously protective of its image (And has a founder who is known to be antisemitic). You don't get to decide what's right or wrong for a company simply because you don't find her statements abhorrent. They get to make that decision, and they made the right one regardless of what they did or didn't do in other past examples like James Gunn or Johnny Depp or anyone else they shit-canned for whatever reason. 



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If I started going around spewing racial slurs and other bigoted language, using my power and influence to push those ignorant agendas, and generally doing harm to minority groups, Any company has the right to not hire me based off that, 

Forgive me if I misunderstand, are you saying Gina used racial slurs and bigoted language?  Please quote her or yours is a non point. I’m hearing she said awful things, but not hearing her say anything awful. Just people beating up for stuff not said. 



sundin13 said:
LurkerJ said:

And he compared what's happening to illegal immigrants to the holocaust not long ago. The holocausts/nazis comparisons are misused in general, it's just another way to dumb the conversation. 

It isn't simply that a comparison was made, it is the substance of the comparison. Comparing American Concentration Camps for Immigrants/Refugees and their children to Nazi Concentration Camps is perhaps a touch extreme, but it isn't too out there of a comparison.

Comparing Conservatives being disliked for their shitty opinions to the demonization campaign of the Nazis against the Jews (which led to genocide fyi) is bizarre, and it is fundamentally idiotic to compare criticism for actions and words to demonization of an individual or a group for their immutable characteristics. If you want to make a sounder comparison, pointing to the conservative demonization of Hispanics, Middle Easterners or Homosexuals would be much more apt.

Immigrants children held in Obama/Trump temp cages because their parents broke the law (while being fed and care for) vs children who are gassed to death. 

I'd say it's too out there and it's extreme, not to mention, trivializing the reality of what happened in those Nazi concentration camps just to push political agenda is unethical. In a vacuum, his tweet is hilariously dumb and can be perceived as offensive, and by the left standards, should be apologized for. The hell I care how it compares to another dumb Hollywood idiot posts and holocaust comparisons, my original post specifically said these are misused and overused to dumb down issues, I don't understand why I am being explained which comparison is worse. 

As for the rest of your post, I am not sure I want to indulge because "which comparison is more comparable to Gina's" was never the point, but genuine question, do American conservatives really demonize Hispanics and middle easterners? is that a thing? Examples on each? 

Besides the point, @JWeinCom but which posts of Pedro's were far more troubling? 



JWeinCom said:
Chris Hu said:

So pretty much nothing happened and the closest we came to actual have real war with the Soviet Union was during the Cuban Missile crisis but thanks for proving my original point anyway.

Nothing happened?! Something certainly did. We got one of the best German pop songs of all time out of this.

I'm puzzled how this relates to cancel culture in any way though. Seems pretty unreasonable to claim that was the sole or even a main cause of the cold war.

My original point was that identity politics is what fuelled the Russian Revolution and all of the chaos and mayhem that ultimately occurred in it's wake. The Ukrainian famine, the death and suffering of tens of millions of people. And nearly a full scale nuclear war, thus the end of life as we know it. That's the end game. Death, destruction and suffering. Someone with little knowledge of history said that my claim that identity politics almost ended the world was wrong and I posted about an event that proves I was correct.



sundin13 said:
TonsofPuppies said:

So... no, then?

I'm not really sure what you are looking for. I generally avoid sourcing opinion/editorial content unless the situation specifically calls for it, which is the type of content which PJW posts. If you are involved in an online discussion, posting someone else's argument doesn't really benefit anyone. If I have previously heard an argument that I agree with, I will just make the argument myself, providing sources as necessary. When sources are called for, I attempt to provide primary sources (ex. Scientific articles or specific pieces of legislation being discussed) and fact based sources (ex. Reuters is usually pretty good about avoiding editorializing). Sometimes it is difficult to find strictly fact based sources, so I will highlight the specific areas of a source that I am utilizing which deal in the facts instead of editorializing. When doing so, I favor print sources over video sources as it is far less time consuming for someone to read it over and parse the relevant information from the whole. 

The reason I posted the PJW video is because he's making the exact argument I've been making. He's saying the exact same thing I've been saying in this thread and provides examples of each of his points in the video. I don't really feel the need to re-write the script of his video and post it here, because in the end, it's the exact same argument. In my opinion, this is a situation that does call for it, because the man is simply right. lol I'd actually be interested in hearing you refute his point(s), if you disagree after hearing them. I think what you're doing is detrimental to yourself, by simply refusing to listen to someone because they've had bad takes in the past. As I said earlier, even a broken clock is right twice a day. There is no one, no matter how good or bad they are as a person, who is right or wrong 100% of the time. What have you got to lose?



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Runa216 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Yeah, it's hypocrisy for sure. I mean this is the same Disney that was ok with Liu Yifei posting support for the Hong Kong police on Chinese social media site Weibo, police who at the time were cracking down on pro-democracy protests and shooting out the eyes of pro-democracy demonstrators with rubber bullets amongst many other examples of brutality. The same Disney who thanked the government of the Xinjiang Autonomous region for allowing them to film Mulan there, a government that is currently being criticized for human rights abuses against the Uyghur people, including rape, torture, and forced sterilization. The same Disney who constantly props up Finn as example of a well-written black character, despite the fact that they they purposefully lessened his role in the trilogy and shrunk him on the Chinese movie posters so that the movies would perform better at the Chinese box office. The same Disney who was ok with the fact that Gina's co-star tweeted that Trump supporters were basically Nazis, and who posted a fake pic of children in Israel claiming the pic was of children at the US detention centers on the Mexican border. The same Disney that reportedly dropped Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow on Pirates of the Carribean due to Amber Heard's allegations against him, and is reportedly now considering Amber Heard for both a role on Star Wars: The Acolyte and the live-action remake of Tangled, despite evidence that it was in fact her who was abusing him, despite his other past lovers coming to his defense, despite evidence that she fabricated her evidence against him. 

You know that hypocrisy and growth are not necessarily the same thing, right? Like, it's not hypocritical to have an opinion/belief, then change that opinion/belief as time goes on, right? Like, They fucked up with Johnny Depp, but maybe after seeing that fuckup they decided not to let it happen again and thus canned Carano's ass. 

You need to stop conflating the two. Someone (or a corporation) acting different in similar situations based on a combination of the subtle details and the passage of time is not hypocrisy, and certain folks out there (Read: All reactionaries) would do well to remember that. 

I don't want to Thanos the entire world's population anymore like I did when I was 13. I still think that humans are a pox upon the land, but I don't wanna kill everyone to save the planet anymore. Does that make me a hypocrite? No, it means I grew up. You don't get to judge a person or corporation's growth based on what's convenient to your beliefs or opinions on a matter. Gina Carano absolutely deserves to be fired and yes, ostracized from the industry for the things she said and the opinions she has. Johnny Depp's cancellation should have no bearing on that fact. 

If I started going around spewing racial slurs and other bigoted language, using my power and influence to push those ignorant agendas, and generally doing harm to minority groups, Any company has the right to not hire me based off that, ESPECIALLY if that company is one of the biggest media corporations in our history, a company that is famously protective of its image (And has a founder who is known to be antisemitic). You don't get to decide what's right or wrong for a company simply because you don't find her statements abhorrent. They get to make that decision, and they made the right one regardless of what they did or didn't do in other past examples like James Gunn or Johnny Depp or anyone else they shit-canned for whatever reason. 

This singular word (reactionaries) tells me exactly the kind of person you are. You claim to have grown up, but you think people should be cancelled and ostracized for their opinions? Hilarious. Like I said earlier in this thread, people with your way of thinking should be very very careful, because one day, your currently accepted opinions may not be acceptable anymore and you will likely be the victim of the cancel culture mob that you've been so happy to unleash on others. The left always eat their own and it's a glorious sight to see.

For the record, I'd be totally fine with Disney taking a no politics stance when it comes to their employees. In fact, that's exactly the stance I want from my mega corporations. I don't care about your politics. Just sell me the product and keep your mouth shut, unless you're promoting said product. Politics is inherently divisive and thus, bad for business, regardless of what side of the spectrum those politics fall on. So if Disney had a policy like this and fired Gina for violating it, I would 100% support that.

That's not the case though. Disney doesn't have a "no politics" policy. Disney doesn't care about their employees posting political takes to their social media accounts, so long as those takes fall in line with the currently mainstream left-wing narrative. Even if the take also makes comparisons to Nazism, which is apparently "abhorrent", it's okay, as long as the take goes against conservatives / right wingers. It's blatant hypocrisy and watching the pronouns-in-bio, orange-man-bad, fake-communist Twitter crowd (as well as many in this thread) do all kinds of mental gymnastics to "prove" that it isn't, is hilarious and pathetic.

Hypocrites defending hypocrites is all this is. The type of people who are pretending to be offended on behalf of the 6 million murdered Jews during WWII when in reality, they don't actually care at all and are simply standing on the graves of millions of dead innocents as a means to push their warped ideology forward. The type of people who screech that it is inappropriate and offensive to make Nazi comparisons, because Nazism is the peak of human evil and thus should not be compared lightly, yet at the same time are perfectly happy to call anyone who doesn't agree with them (basically anyone who isn't far-left) a Nazi. Rules for thee, but not for me. That's the modern left in a nutshell.

Last edited by TonsofPuppies - on 21 February 2021

Pretty harsh tbh. Too many people care about every second of a Celebrity's life instead of focusing on what really should matter to them.

This is television enjoy the fantasy worlds that actors create. Forget about their personal lives and social media as how does it add value to your life? You have one life to live and it goes quick. All that shit in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant.



 

 

LurkerJ said:
sundin13 said:

It isn't simply that a comparison was made, it is the substance of the comparison. Comparing American Concentration Camps for Immigrants/Refugees and their children to Nazi Concentration Camps is perhaps a touch extreme, but it isn't too out there of a comparison.

Comparing Conservatives being disliked for their shitty opinions to the demonization campaign of the Nazis against the Jews (which led to genocide fyi) is bizarre, and it is fundamentally idiotic to compare criticism for actions and words to demonization of an individual or a group for their immutable characteristics. If you want to make a sounder comparison, pointing to the conservative demonization of Hispanics, Middle Easterners or Homosexuals would be much more apt.

Immigrants children held in Obama/Trump temp cages because their parents broke the law (while being fed and care for) vs children who are gassed to death. 

I'd say it's too out there and it's extreme, not to mention, trivializing the reality of what happened in those Nazi concentration camps just to push political agenda is unethical. In a vacuum, his tweet is hilariously dumb and can be perceived as offensive, and by the left standards, should be apologized for. The hell I care how it compares to another dumb Hollywood idiot posts and holocaust comparisons, my original post specifically said these are misused and overused to dumb down issues, I don't understand why I am being explained which comparison is worse. 

Many of the children who were split up from their parents were children of individuals who were applying for asylum at the US border which is an entirely legal and internationally encouraged process.

As for whether "American conservatives demonize Hispanics and Middle Easterners", you may want to look up someone named "Donald Trump". Lots of enlightening stuff there, from his proposed "Muslim Ban" to his comments about how Mexico wasn't sending their best but was sending drug dealers and rapists over the border.

TonsofPuppies said:
sundin13 said:

I'm not really sure what you are looking for. I generally avoid sourcing opinion/editorial content unless the situation specifically calls for it, which is the type of content which PJW posts. If you are involved in an online discussion, posting someone else's argument doesn't really benefit anyone. If I have previously heard an argument that I agree with, I will just make the argument myself, providing sources as necessary. When sources are called for, I attempt to provide primary sources (ex. Scientific articles or specific pieces of legislation being discussed) and fact based sources (ex. Reuters is usually pretty good about avoiding editorializing). Sometimes it is difficult to find strictly fact based sources, so I will highlight the specific areas of a source that I am utilizing which deal in the facts instead of editorializing. When doing so, I favor print sources over video sources as it is far less time consuming for someone to read it over and parse the relevant information from the whole. 

The reason I posted the PJW video is because he's making the exact argument I've been making. He's saying the exact same thing I've been saying in this thread and provides examples of each of his points in the video. I don't really feel the need to re-write the script of his video and post it here, because in the end, it's the exact same argument. In my opinion, this is a situation that does call for it, because the man is simply right. lol I'd actually be interested in hearing you refute his point(s), if you disagree after hearing them. I think what you're doing is detrimental to yourself, by simply refusing to listen to someone because they've had bad takes in the past. As I said earlier, even a broken clock is right twice a day. There is no one, no matter how good or bad they are as a person, who is right or wrong 100% of the time. What have you got to lose?

Again, feel free to make the argument yourself and if I think it is worth responding to, I will do so. I am not interested in debating someone who isn't here. And again, it isn't about them being wrong in the past, it is about them demonstrating a lack of intellectual honesty and lack of care for how right they are. 

Cobretti2 said:

Pretty harsh tbh. Too many people care about every second of a Celebrity's life instead of focusing on what really should matter to them.

This is television enjoy the fantasy worlds that actors create. Forget about their personal lives and social media as how does it add value to your life? You have one life to live and it goes quick. All that shit in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant.

The conservative response to the coronavirus including the pushback against masks which Gina participated in very much affects my life and the lives of everybody else in this country. It is kind of hard to say that they're just words when you see that the impact of these words is literally killing people. Personally, I'd love to be out living my life, but unfortunately we are in the middle of a pandemic which is exacerbated by conservative rhetoric.



LurkerJ said:

sundin13 said:

It isn't simply that a comparison was made, it is the substance of the comparison. Comparing American Concentration Camps for Immigrants/Refugees and their children to Nazi Concentration Camps is perhaps a touch extreme, but it isn't too out there of a comparison.

Comparing Conservatives being disliked for their shitty opinions to the demonization campaign of the Nazis against the Jews (which led to genocide fyi) is bizarre, and it is fundamentally idiotic to compare criticism for actions and words to demonization of an individual or a group for their immutable characteristics. If you want to make a sounder comparison, pointing to the conservative demonization of Hispanics, Middle Easterners or Homosexuals would be much more apt.

Immigrants children held in Obama/Trump temp cages because their parents broke the law (while being fed and care for) vs children who are gassed to death. 

I'd say it's too out there and it's extreme, not to mention, trivializing the reality of what happened in those Nazi concentration camps just to push political agenda is unethical. In a vacuum, his tweet is hilariously dumb and can be perceived as offensive, and by the left standards, should be apologized for. The hell I care how it compares to another dumb Hollywood idiot posts and holocaust comparisons, my original post specifically said these are misused and overused to dumb down issues, I don't understand why I am being explained which comparison is worse. 

As for the rest of your post, I am not sure I want to indulge because "which comparison is more comparable to Gina's" was never the point, but genuine question, do American conservatives really demonize Hispanics and middle easterners? is that a thing? Examples on each? 

Besides the point, @JWeinCom but which posts of Pedro's were far more troubling? 

https://www.rt.com/usa/449368-disney-producer-threatens-maga-kids/

TonsofPuppies said:
JWeinCom said:

Nothing happened?! Something certainly did. We got one of the best German pop songs of all time out of this.

I'm puzzled how this relates to cancel culture in any way though. Seems pretty unreasonable to claim that was the sole or even a main cause of the cold war.

My original point was that identity politics is what fuelled the Russian Revolution and all of the chaos and mayhem that ultimately occurred in it's wake. The Ukrainian famine, the death and suffering of tens of millions of people. And nearly a full scale nuclear war, thus the end of life as we know it. That's the end game. Death, destruction and suffering. Someone with little knowledge of history said that my claim that identity politics almost ended the world was wrong and I posted about an event that proves I was correct.

No, you didn't prove that identity politics almost ended the world. Because you proved neither that the world almost ended (it's quite possible that anyone viewing the warning would have identified it as a false positive), that identity politics were the primary cause of the Bolshevik Revolution, or that a nuclear arms race would not have occurred without the Soviet Union. 

Even if we were to grant that identity politics however you define them were a motivator in the Bolshevik revolution, it does not follow that they themselves are proximate causes for any particular event that followed. The end of the Romanov dynasty was undeniably a factor in the Bolshevik Revolution, but it would be pretty weird to say the fall of the Romanov dynasty leads to nuclear disaster. Nationalism was a key part of the rise of the Nazi party, but it does not logically follow that genocide is the "end game" of nationalism. America was founded by puritans, that doesn't mean puritanism caused the my lai massacre. Etc.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 21 February 2021

TonsofPuppies said:

This singular word (reactionaries) tells me exactly the kind of person you are. You claim to have grown up, but you think people should be cancelled and ostracized for their opinions? Hilarious. Like I said earlier in this thread, people with your way of thinking should be very very careful, because one day, your currently accepted opinions may not be acceptable anymore and you will likely be the victim of the cancel culture mob that you've been so happy to unleash on others. The left always eat their own and it's a glorious sight to see.

For the record, I'd be totally fine with Disney taking a no politics stance when it comes to their employees. In fact, that's exactly the stance I want from my mega corporations. I don't care about your politics. Just sell me the product and keep your mouth shut, unless you're promoting said product. Politics is inherently divisive and thus, bad for business, regardless of what side of the spectrum those politics fall on. So if Disney had a policy like this and fired Gina for violating it, I would 100% support that.

That's not the case though. Disney doesn't have a "no politics" policy. Disney doesn't care about their employees posting political takes to their social media accounts, so long as those takes fall in line with the currently mainstream left-wing narrative. Even if the take also makes comparisons to Nazism, which is apparently "abhorrent", it's okay, as long as the take goes against conservatives / right wingers. It's blatant hypocrisy and watching the pronouns-in-bio, orange-man-bad, fake-communist Twitter crowd (as well as many in this thread) do all kinds of mental gymnastics to "prove" that it isn't, is hilarious and pathetic.

Hypocrites defending hypocrites is all this is. The type of people who are pretending to be offended on behalf of the 6 million murdered Jews during WWII when in reality, they don't actually care at all and are simply standing on the graves of millions of dead innocents as a means to push their warped ideology forward. The type of people who screech that it is inappropriate and offensive to make Nazi comparisons, because Nazism is the peak of human evil and thus should not be compared lightly, yet at the same time are perfectly happy to call anyone who doesn't agree with them (basically anyone who isn't far-left) a Nazi. Rules for thee, but not for me. That's the modern left in a nutshell.

Not gonna lie, it's actually impressive how insensitive and ignorant this post right here is. Like, it's so far removed from any real empathy or reality that I don't even know where to start correcting you. 



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