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Forums - Gaming Discussion - CD Projekt Red Apologizes For Hiding Base Console Performance- Offers Refunds

 

Will you be asking for a refund?

Yes 14 35.00%
 
No 26 65.00%
 
Total:40
SvennoJ said:
shikamaru317 said:

I would hardly call them scumbags. Yes, they made some poor choices:

  • Deciding not to cancel base PS4 and XB1 versions when the systems clearly can't handle the game
  • Choosing to not show the base PS4 and XB1 versions before release
  • Holding back console reviews until after release
  • Deciding not to delay the game a 4th time, just so they could hit a Christmas release

However, look at all of the good CD Projekt does:

  • The only developer/publisher I know of that still puts goodies into a standard physical version, like the good old days when physical games had manuals and such in the case, before publishers decided to cut them to save 50 cents per copy (Cyberpunk standard edition includes a map, world compendium, postcards, stickers, digital soundtrack, digital art booklet, and digital cyberpunk 2020 sourcebook)
  • Cyberpunk is getting a wave of free DLC's in 2021, just like Witcher 3 got in 2015
  • Cyberpunk's upcoming multiplayer game will be free for everybody who bought Cyberpunk 2077
  • The game itself is still great, in spite of the bugs and performance issues
  • No singleplayer lootboxes
  • Now they have apologized (something that few AAA developers and publishers do when they make a mistake), are offering help to get refunds, and have made a commitment to patch the bugs and optimize the last gen console versions

To call them scumbags isn't really fair. They are still better than most of the big publishers like EA, Activision, Take-Two/2K, Ubisoft, Square Enix, and more.

Still the apologist?

Didn't RDR2 come with a map? I'm pretty sure it did.

A wave of free DLCs is pretty standard nowadays with games releasing incomplete.

The multiplayer that was initially supposed to be part of the game?

The game is good, yet far from finished, there are literally still place holders in the game.

No lootboxes, that's a plus now?

I wouldn't call that an apology, more like begging to pls give them a chance, we'll whip the dev team some more to get patches out asap. Otherwise try get a refund from your retailer first, if that doesn't work you can email us, only for a week, and we might do something. (no clue what)


Some poor choices, deliberately misleading their customer base, which they so respect, while mandating crunch upon crunch to get that lovely pre-order money in the bank.


They don't care about you, just your money, like every other company. But they'll manipulate you as much as possible into defending their every move no matter how bad.

Deciding not to cancel base PS4 and XB1 versions when the systems clearly can't handle the game

Are you for real? It was targeted for PS4 and XB1 and CDPR has specifically stated that, as well as that it would look great on ps4 and XBox One.
What CDPR has shown is that they clearly can't handle a project this size.

Can you name another game besides Fallout 4, RDR2, Witcher 3, and Cyberpunk that included anything in the case except maybe a PS+/XBL code in the last decade? I can't think of any. And CD Projekt even gives you the soundtrack for free, that usually costs you $20 or so for most games. I have listened to my free Witcher 3 soundtrack so many times over the last few years. 

Some games get free DLC, some don't. Few get as many as Witcher 3 got, 16 pieces of free DLC in the first year as I recall, ranging from questlines to alternate outfits for the main characters. And they have promised a similar free DLC campaign for Cyberpunk. 

The multiplayer being included with the base game was only ever rumored as far as I know. Besides, name me some other 100+ hour singleplayer games that also include free MP? I can only think of 1, RDR2. It's incredible value for $60, in an age where some games are increasing to $70, and where many games are like 20-30 hours or less for that price.

I haven't encountered any placeholders personally, everything seems done to me, based on my 20+ hours so far. Some bugs and glitches, but all minor, nothing that has impacted my enjoyment. 

How is no singleplayer lootboxes, in a world where many other publishers put them in their games, not a positive?

I definitely read it as an apology, and many others did as well, most of the most liked replies to their tweet were positive from what I saw.

PS4 and XB1 can't handle the game. I have one word for you, Jaguar. Red Engine is very CPU intensive in big cities, just look at Novigrad performance on Witcher 3, DF has used it as a PC CPU benchmark game for 5 years now, because Novigrad is very CPU intensive. And Cyberpunk's Night City is much larger and denser than Novigrad. I don't see this game ever hitting locked 30 fps on PS4/XB1 due to Jaguar CPU's, it will improve some on these patches, but the game should never have been targeted at PS4/XB1, especially after the delay from 2019 to 2020, which is why I said they made a mistake by not cancelling the current gen versions. Here is Novigrad framerate on Switch, which has an even weaker CPU than Jaguar: https://youtu.be/hUHNowimzDA?t=802

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 14 December 2020

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shikamaru317 said:

Can you name another game besides Fallout 4, RDR2, Witcher 3, and Cyberpunk that included anything in the case except maybe a PS+/XBL code in the last decade? I can't think of any. And CD Projekt even gives you the soundtrack for free, that usually costs you $20 or so for most games. I have listed to my Witcher 3 soundtrack so many times over the last few years. 

Some games get free DLC, some don't. Few get as many as Witcher 3 got, 16 pieces of free DLC in the first year as I recall, ranging from questlines to alternate outfits for the main characters. And they have promised a similar free DLC campaign for Cyberpunk. 

The multiplayer being included with the base game was only ever rumored as far as I know. Besides, name me some other 100+ hour singleplayer games that also include free MP? I can only think of 1, RDR2. It's incredible value for $60, in an age where some games are increasing to $70, and where many games are like 20-30 hours or less for that price.

I haven't encountered any placeholders personally, everything seems done to me, based on my 20+ hours so far. Some bugs and glitches, but all minor, nothing that has impacted my enjoyment. 

How is no singleplayer lootboxes, in a world where many other publishers put them in their games, not a positive?

I definitely read it as an apology, and many others did as well, most of the most liked replies to their tweet were positive from what I saw.

PS4 and XB1 can't handle the game. I have one word for you, Jaguar. Red Engine is very CPU intensive in big cities, just look at Novigrad performance on Witcher 3, DF has used it as a PC CPU benchmark game for 5 years now, because Novigrad is very CPU intensive. And Cyberpunk's Night City is much larger and denser than Novigrad. I don't see this game ever hitting locked 30 fps on PS4/XB1 due to Jaguar CPU's, it will improve some on these patches, but the game should never have been targeted at PS4/XB1, especially after the delay from 2019 to 2020, which is why I said they made a mistake by not cancelling the current gen versions.

Witcher 3 was not all that great at release either, they had to make up some goodwill there.

How many free pieces of DLC did Driveclub get? No Man's sky, GT Sport? Substantial, game changing DLC.

Cyberpunk is not a 100+ hour single player game, you can finish the story in 10 hours apparently.
Many games get tacked on multiplayer nowadays, Far Cry 3 already did.

The police is a big place holder, spawning in with no AI to chase you really. However there are also actual Missing_Vendor_Name tags and empty shops around, while assets get re-used a lot. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-more-time-i-spend-in-cyberpunk-2077s-world-the-less-i-believe-in-it/
It simply wasn't finished yet.

There are seemingly only about six books published in Night City, and everyone owns multiple copies of them, leaving them in piles around their homes. Any time you see sheets of paper on a desk or stuck to a wall, it's the same handful of nonsensical documents—including, oddly enough, a deed to buy a mango farm. I've seen this mango farm contract all over Night City, and every time I do—along with all the other recycled assets—it just feels smaller and smaller.

Not adding something bad, doesn't mean it makes it good, concerning loot boxes.

Apologies are not conditional, don't shift blame and don't ask you to wait for things to get better.

They knew from the start what XBox One and PS4 are capable of. If they made their engine too incompatible with the base consoles, it's purely on them. TW3 runs on the Switch, this can run on the base consoles. Plus they would have known long ago whether it would be feasible or not, yet deliberately continued to mislead until after release when the truth came out.



The mistake they made is thinking that crunch could solve the horrible planning and feature creep they got themselves into. By this time last year it would have been obvious that there was no way to get it out on time and needed another full year at least without a worldwide virus disruption.

It can all be fixed and likely will. That's the one thing CDPR has left, they polished up TW3 to one of the best RPGs out there. It will take time. The current code base is most likely a mess of last minute fixes, patches, place holders, scrapped features and shortcuts to get it out of the door. It certainly can run on the base consoles but it will require time to balance things, create lower poly assets, lower res textures, optimize scenes, pre-bake lighting, reflections and shadows where possible etc.

This is not a Kickstarter project, but somehow a lot of people treat it like such. About 8 million of them.



DroidKnight said:
Leynos said:

CDPR has turned into scumbags. I will get this game when the GOTY edition comes out on PS5 and it's used for less than $20.

It will probably get an Ultimate edition or Complete edition, a GOTY edition is probably out the window.

It's just a phrase meaning the same thing. All shit is on DISC regardless of whatever the fuck is slapped on the box.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Baddman said:

I'm seeing a lot of folks on twitter complaining about Sony refusing to refund Cyberpunk and telling them to wait for the January update

Yup, Sony is adding more issues to the ongoing shitshow.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

SvennoJ said:
shikamaru317 said:

Can you name another game besides Fallout 4, RDR2, Witcher 3, and Cyberpunk that included anything in the case except maybe a PS+/XBL code in the last decade? I can't think of any. And CD Projekt even gives you the soundtrack for free, that usually costs you $20 or so for most games. I have listed to my Witcher 3 soundtrack so many times over the last few years. 

Some games get free DLC, some don't. Few get as many as Witcher 3 got, 16 pieces of free DLC in the first year as I recall, ranging from questlines to alternate outfits for the main characters. And they have promised a similar free DLC campaign for Cyberpunk. 

The multiplayer being included with the base game was only ever rumored as far as I know. Besides, name me some other 100+ hour singleplayer games that also include free MP? I can only think of 1, RDR2. It's incredible value for $60, in an age where some games are increasing to $70, and where many games are like 20-30 hours or less for that price.

I haven't encountered any placeholders personally, everything seems done to me, based on my 20+ hours so far. Some bugs and glitches, but all minor, nothing that has impacted my enjoyment. 

How is no singleplayer lootboxes, in a world where many other publishers put them in their games, not a positive?

I definitely read it as an apology, and many others did as well, most of the most liked replies to their tweet were positive from what I saw.

PS4 and XB1 can't handle the game. I have one word for you, Jaguar. Red Engine is very CPU intensive in big cities, just look at Novigrad performance on Witcher 3, DF has used it as a PC CPU benchmark game for 5 years now, because Novigrad is very CPU intensive. And Cyberpunk's Night City is much larger and denser than Novigrad. I don't see this game ever hitting locked 30 fps on PS4/XB1 due to Jaguar CPU's, it will improve some on these patches, but the game should never have been targeted at PS4/XB1, especially after the delay from 2019 to 2020, which is why I said they made a mistake by not cancelling the current gen versions.

Witcher 3 was not all that great at release either, they had to make up some goodwill there.

How many free pieces of DLC did Driveclub get? No Man's sky, GT Sport? Substantial, game changing DLC.

Cyberpunk is not a 100+ hour single player game, you can finish the story in 10 hours apparently.
Many games get tacked on multiplayer nowadays, Far Cry 3 already did.

The police is a big place holder, spawning in with no AI to chase you really. However there are also actual Missing_Vendor_Name tags and empty shops around, while assets get re-used a lot. https://www.pcgamer.com/the-more-time-i-spend-in-cyberpunk-2077s-world-the-less-i-believe-in-it/
It simply wasn't finished yet.

There are seemingly only about six books published in Night City, and everyone owns multiple copies of them, leaving them in piles around their homes. Any time you see sheets of paper on a desk or stuck to a wall, it's the same handful of nonsensical documents—including, oddly enough, a deed to buy a mango farm. I've seen this mango farm contract all over Night City, and every time I do—along with all the other recycled assets—it just feels smaller and smaller.

Not adding something bad, doesn't mean it makes it good, concerning loot boxes.

Apologies are not conditional, don't shift blame and don't ask you to wait for things to get better.

They knew from the start what XBox One and PS4 are capable of. If they made their engine too incompatible with the base consoles, it's purely on them. TW3 runs on the Switch, this can run on the base consoles. Plus they would have known long ago whether it would be feasible or not, yet deliberately continued to mislead until after release when the truth came out.



The mistake they made is thinking that crunch could solve the horrible planning and feature creep they got themselves into. By this time last year it would have been obvious that there was no way to get it out on time and needed another full year at least without a worldwide virus disruption.

It can all be fixed and likely will. That's the one thing CDPR has left, they polished up TW3 to one of the best RPGs out there. It will take time. The current code base is most likely a mess of last minute fixes, patches, place holders, scrapped features and shortcuts to get it out of the door. It certainly can run on the base consoles but it will require time to balance things, create lower poly assets, lower res textures, optimize scenes, pre-bake lighting, reflections and shadows where possible etc.

This is not a Kickstarter project, but somehow a lot of people treat it like such. About 8 million of them.

I agree Witcher 3 wasn't the best at release, and we all saw how well they patched it over time, that is one reason why people are more forgiving of Cyberpunk issues on release, we know they will fix it eventually, unlike say Bethesda with Skyrim, where you need to download an unofficial fan patch from the mod store to have a good experience, 9 years later. 

All 3 of those games are games with multiplayer. Name a singleplayer game that got as much free DLC as Witcher 3 please. I can't think of any, though I could be missing something. 

It'll be 100+ hours for me because I am doing all content in the game. I'm already over 20 hours and I have only done like 90% of the side content in the Watson district and the prologue main story missions (up until the point when Johnny shows up), there is still alot of main missions, I think 4 more districts of side content, and the wasteland outside the city side content for me to do, pretty sure I will hit over 100 hours. It's not as big as Witcher 3, where a competitionist run could hit over 150 hours, but it's still very big.

I can't say that I pay enough attention to world clutter while playing a game to notice that everybody owns a deed to a mango farm. If I was that nitpicky with games I wouldn't enjoy any of them probably.

They didn't know the final specs of PS4 and XB1 when Red Engine 3 was designed, which is why Witcher 3 got downgraded after it's initial gameplay trailers and early screenshots. I remember an interview where a CD Projekt dev said they were expecting closer to 3 tflops with a good mid-range laptop CPU for PS4 and Xbox One, instead they got 1.3 and 1.8 tflops with Jaguar tablet class CPU cores. As for Red Engine 4, which Cyberpunk uses, it was built with next-gen performance in mind from what I've read. This game was never going to run well on base PS4 and XB1, the writing was on the wall. 

Witcher 3 runs on Switch, but it does so with a very low resolution, paired back graphics settings that are lower than PC low settings in some cases I think, and drops as low as 20 fps in Novigrad. I will be impressed if they can actually get Cyberpunk on PS4 and XB1 up to at least 25-30 fps without lowering the resolution and graphics settings even lower than they already are. 



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Peh said:
Baddman said:

I'm seeing a lot of folks on twitter complaining about Sony refusing to refund Cyberpunk and telling them to wait for the January update

Yup, Sony is adding more issues to the ongoing shitshow.

They knew what they where doing giving this non apology, not even talking with sony and microsoft and trying to shift blame , now fanboys and hater will get this as a excuse to start to shit on console makers for this and the talk will shift with cdp laughing with their pockets full, they are pure scum.



 

shikamaru317 said:
DroidKnight said:

It will probably get an Ultimate edition or Complete edition, a GOTY edition is probably out the window.

CD Projekt never call their editions GOTY anyway. Witcher 3 won GOTY and they called it the Complete Edition, while Witcher 1 and 2 were called Enhanced Edition when they released. However, a publisher can call it a GOTY edition if it even wins a single GOTY award from a single outlet, I've seen it happen before. 

Umm...



Some funny memes I saw on twitter:



Bristow9091 said:
shikamaru317 said:

CD Projekt never call their editions GOTY anyway. Witcher 3 won GOTY and they called it the Complete Edition, while Witcher 1 and 2 were called Enhanced Edition when they released. However, a publisher can call it a GOTY edition if it even wins a single GOTY award from a single outlet, I've seen it happen before. 

Umm...

Hmm, wonder if that is Europe only. In the US I see:



EnricoPallazzo said:

Wow it seems people think it is better for them to not apologize at all.

The issue isn't if they apologize or not.  The issue is that they knew the console version was in a bad state, and they didn't show it beforehand.