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Forums - Sales Discussion - Spiderman (PS4) has sold over 20m units

pikashoe said:
toru_bozu said:

That's the thing. Didn't you originally said that, "Would Playstation as a platform be as big as it is without all of those 3rd party AAA titles?". So, why didn't it have the same affect on Xbox platform? Why it didn't reach that height of sales? Why only PS4? Xbox One also have AC, COD, FIFA, GTA and the big 3rd party AAA titles. But, why Xbox One "is the loser" and not PS4? Ever thought the reason probably because people prefer with Sony 1st party/ time exclusive titles? That's why PS4 platform propel more than 100+ million consoles & the 1st party titles sold gangbusters, not solely because of 3rd party titles that helping them and carrying the load as you said. Even you agreed, "3rd party games can't push all consoles to 100 million plus.". That's why Xbox One could not become the console with 100+ million install base instead of PS4, because they lack in exclusive titles that attract and entice many gamers (one of the reasons).

So, I agreed with PotentHerbs opinion. It is not a pathetic excuse and not as delusional as you attacked him. It is what it is. Sony titles indeed have big competition from other massive franchises. But, Spider-Man or other Sony titles can sell on its own. Obviously, there are other factors as well. But, it doesn't take the impressiveness of Spider-Man sold unit. Anyway, carry on. I'm just an onlooker and bemused 🙂

I think you aren't understanding what he said. He isn't saying that only 3rd party games sell Sony consoles. He is saying that they contribute to the hardware selling more. If you took gta, fifa, cod and other huge 3rd party games off of ps4 it is likely it would sell less. Which would mean that 1st party games have less people to sell to.

That is certainly true (but he pretends also that Nintendo IPs sells their consoles, which when you consider the historic isn't true, you can say that Nintendo can only depend on their games to sell their consoles but you can't say that they make the consoles sell as a blanket statement), and he also made the claim in a way that Sony games doesn't have much to do with the console selling well and that without the extra HW sale the sony games wouldn't sell well, in a way that there is more of a net positive of the increase in SW sales by HW sales than a negative of having more competition. Considering the Sony games improved a lot in sales from PS2 to PS3 and again on PS4 with lower HW sales than PS2 and also knowing that the total SW sold on a platform sure have a strong correlation with the total HW sold (tie ratio is fairly close between successful consoles, around 12 SW per HW) the sales of stablished IPs can be observed to not have had the same increase with HW, you can pick most PS or even Nintendo exclusives and see that sure the consoles that had more HW sales those titles also sold better but it is a very light correlation.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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pikashoe said:
toru_bozu said:

That's the thing. Didn't you originally said that, "Would Playstation as a platform be as big as it is without all of those 3rd party AAA titles?". So, why didn't it have the same affect on Xbox platform? Why it didn't reach that height of sales? Why only PS4? Xbox One also have AC, COD, FIFA, GTA and the big 3rd party AAA titles. But, why Xbox One "is the loser" and not PS4? Ever thought the reason probably because people prefer with Sony 1st party/ time exclusive titles? That's why PS4 platform propel more than 100+ million consoles & the 1st party titles sold gangbusters, not solely because of 3rd party titles that helping them and carrying the load as you said. Even you agreed, "3rd party games can't push all consoles to 100 million plus.". That's why Xbox One could not become the console with 100+ million install base instead of PS4, because they lack in exclusive titles that attract and entice many gamers (one of the reasons).

So, I agreed with PotentHerbs opinion. It is not a pathetic excuse and not as delusional as you attacked him. It is what it is. Sony titles indeed have big competition from other massive franchises. But, Spider-Man or other Sony titles can sell on its own. Obviously, there are other factors as well. But, it doesn't take the impressiveness of Spider-Man sold unit. Anyway, carry on. I'm just an onlooker and bemused 🙂

I think you aren't understanding what he said. He isn't saying that only 3rd party games sell Sony consoles. He is saying that they contribute to the hardware selling more. If you took gta, fifa, cod and other huge 3rd party games off of ps4 it is likely it would sell less. Which would mean that 1st party games have less people to sell to.

No, I perfectly understand what he said. That's why I said "not solely". 3rd party games do help, but he's downplaying Sony 1st party titles huge contribution which sold tremendously in a region of not only 10+ million but also 20+ millions, which in turn move many hardware as well. Why 3rd party is the reason PS4 sell more? Why not Sony 1st party? Sony games sold improved a lot especially compare to PS3. I can turn around that/ his statement which can stand true.

I'm not saying that only 1st party games sell Sony consoles. I'm saying that they contribute to the hardware selling more. If you took GoW, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, TLoU, Uncharted and other huge 1st party games off of ps4 it is likely it would sell less. Which would mean that 3rd/ 1st party games have less people to sell to.

Just look at Xbox One, they have GTA, FIFA, COD and other huge 3rd party games... but it not even reach half of PS4 total hardware, no need to mention it 1st party titles. DonFerarri sum up what I'm trying to say. Seeing xPhenom08x is banned, I have my opinion on this already.

DonFerrari said:
pikashoe said:

I think you aren't understanding what he said. He isn't saying that only 3rd party games sell Sony consoles. He is saying that they contribute to the hardware selling more. If you took gta, fifa, cod and other huge 3rd party games off of ps4 it is likely it would sell less. Which would mean that 1st party games have less people to sell to.

That is certainly true (but he pretends also that Nintendo IPs sells their consoles, which when you consider the historic isn't true, you can say that Nintendo can only depend on their games to sell their consoles but you can't say that they make the consoles sell as a blanket statement), and he also made the claim in a way that Sony games doesn't have much to do with the console selling well and that without the extra HW sale the sony games wouldn't sell well, in a way that there is more of a net positive of the increase in SW sales by HW sales than a negative of having more competition. Considering the Sony games improved a lot in sales from PS2 to PS3 and again on PS4 with lower HW sales than PS2 and also knowing that the total SW sold on a platform sure have a strong correlation with the total HW sold (tie ratio is fairly close between successful consoles, around 12 SW per HW) the sales of stablished IPs can be observed to not have had the same increase with HW, you can pick most PS or even Nintendo exclusives and see that sure the consoles that had more HW sales those titles also sold better but it is a very light correlation.

Yes, thank you 🙂 More or less what I want to say.

Last edited by toru_bozu - on 10 December 2020

toru_bozu said:
pikashoe said:

I think you aren't understanding what he said. He isn't saying that only 3rd party games sell Sony consoles. He is saying that they contribute to the hardware selling more. If you took gta, fifa, cod and other huge 3rd party games off of ps4 it is likely it would sell less. Which would mean that 1st party games have less people to sell to.

No, I perfectly understand what he said. That's why I said "not solely". 3rd party games do help, but he's downplaying Sony 1st party titles huge contribution which sold tremendously in a region of not only 10+ million but also 20+ millions, which in turn move many hardware as well. Why 3rd party is the reason PS4 sell more? Why not Sony 1st party? Sony games sold improved a lot especially compare to PS3. I can turn around that/ his statement which can stand true.

I'm not saying that only 1st party games sell Sony consoles. I'm saying that they contribute to the hardware selling more. If you took GoW, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, TLoU, Uncharted and other huge 1st party games off of ps4 it is likely it would sell less. Which would mean that 3rd/ 1st party games have less people to sell to.

Just look at Xbox One, they have GTA, FIFA, COD and other huge 1st party games... but it not even reach half of PS4 total hardware, no need to mention it 1st party titles. DonFerarri sum up what I'm trying to say. Seeing xPhenom08x is banned, I have my opinion on this already.

You clearly don't understand. No one is saying that Sony 1st party games don't help sell a lot consoles. What was being said is that if you took all the major 3rd party games away, PlayStation would sell less then it currently sells and that would have a negative effect on how much 1st party titles can sell. 

The reason Sony sells better than Xbox is mostly down to Sony having much better 1st party support. It is the combination of 1st and 3rd party that makes Sony consoles sell so well. 



pikashoe said:
toru_bozu said:

No, I perfectly understand what he said. That's why I said "not solely". 3rd party games do help, but he's downplaying Sony 1st party titles huge contribution which sold tremendously in a region of not only 10+ million but also 20+ millions, which in turn move many hardware as well. Why 3rd party is the reason PS4 sell more? Why not Sony 1st party? Sony games sold improved a lot especially compare to PS3. I can turn around that/ his statement which can stand true.

I'm not saying that only 1st party games sell Sony consoles. I'm saying that they contribute to the hardware selling more. If you took GoW, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, TLoU, Uncharted and other huge 1st party games off of ps4 it is likely it would sell less. Which would mean that 3rd/ 1st party games have less people to sell to.

Just look at Xbox One, they have GTA, FIFA, COD and other huge 1st party games... but it not even reach half of PS4 total hardware, no need to mention it 1st party titles. DonFerarri sum up what I'm trying to say. Seeing xPhenom08x is banned, I have my opinion on this already.

You clearly don't understand. No one is saying that Sony 1st party games don't help sell a lot consoles. What was being said is that if you took all the major 3rd party games away, PlayStation would sell less then it currently sells and that would have a negative effect on how much 1st party titles can sell. 

The reason Sony sells better than Xbox is mostly down to Sony having much better 1st party support. It is the combination of 1st and 3rd party that makes Sony consoles sell so well.

No one is a very strong word, you can say you didn't mean it, but yes that was the line Phenom was taking.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
pikashoe said:

You clearly don't understand. No one is saying that Sony 1st party games don't help sell a lot consoles. What was being said is that if you took all the major 3rd party games away, PlayStation would sell less then it currently sells and that would have a negative effect on how much 1st party titles can sell. 

The reason Sony sells better than Xbox is mostly down to Sony having much better 1st party support. It is the combination of 1st and 3rd party that makes Sony consoles sell so well.

No one is a very strong word, you can say you didn't mean it, but yes that was the line Phenom was taking.

I looked through his posts again. And nope that was not the line he was taking. He was clearly saying that 3rd party games contribute to PlayStation HW sales and that the extra HW sales that 3rd partys provide add more to 1st party sales than the competition from these same games takes away.

I understand that English may not be your 1st language so you may have misinterpreted what he meant. 



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pikashoe said:
DonFerrari said:

No one is a very strong word, you can say you didn't mean it, but yes that was the line Phenom was taking.

I looked through his posts again. And nope that was not the line he was taking. He was clearly saying that 3rd party games contribute to PlayStation HW sales and that the extra HW sales that 3rd partys provide add more to 1st party sales than the competition from these same games takes away.

I understand that English may not be your 1st language so you may have misinterpreted what he meant. 

Sure pika, and I understand that because you agree with him you may not have noticed the tone, personal accusations and the intention to downplay the sales of Sony exclusives. If you read this and other threads you'll see that at most Sony fans have been saying Sony is approaching Nintendo level of sales and this is shoot down with exaggerated comparison and "to reach Nintendo you have to sell this much...." and that quantity keeps changing to the point even most Nintendo titles doesn't qualify.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

pikashoe said:
toru_bozu said:

No, I perfectly understand what he said. That's why I said "not solely". 3rd party games do help, but he's downplaying Sony 1st party titles huge contribution which sold tremendously in a region of not only 10+ million but also 20+ millions, which in turn move many hardware as well. Why 3rd party is the reason PS4 sell more? Why not Sony 1st party? Sony games sold improved a lot especially compare to PS3. I can turn around that/ his statement which can stand true.

I'm not saying that only 1st party games sell Sony consoles. I'm saying that they contribute to the hardware selling more. If you took GoW, Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, TLoU, Uncharted and other huge 1st party games off of ps4 it is likely it would sell less. Which would mean that 3rd/ 1st party games have less people to sell to.

Just look at Xbox One, they have GTA, FIFA, COD and other huge 1st party games... but it not even reach half of PS4 total hardware, no need to mention it 1st party titles. DonFerarri sum up what I'm trying to say. Seeing xPhenom08x is banned, I have my opinion on this already.

You clearly don't understand. No one is saying that Sony 1st party games don't help sell a lot consoles. What was being said is that if you took all the major 3rd party games away, PlayStation would sell less then it currently sells and that would have a negative effect on how much 1st party titles can sell. 

The reason Sony sells better than Xbox is mostly down to Sony having much better 1st party support. It is the combination of 1st and 3rd party that makes Sony consoles sell so well. 

Man, I don't want to argue. Because you clearly don't understand what I'm saying. Not even a word I claim xPhenom08x say that "Sony 1st party games don't help sell a lot consoles". Downplaying =/= Don't sell a lot. I agree 3rd party do help but no more than what the 1st party contribute as well. In Sony case, more because of 1st party in my opinion.  Instead what xPhenom08x said is because of 3rd party titles like COD and GTA is the reason PS4 consoles selling better and help them carrying the load. Not even mentioning a single 1st party title there. Downplaying. Only 3rd party games busy doing the work, and help Spider-Man reaching bigger base. Reread my post again, I may not use the word 'combination' specifically but, your last paragraph is my point! So, we agree on that. With Sony quality 1st party titles, PS4 become as big as it is right now and selling better, not solely because of 3rd party AAA doing the considerable work.

xPhenom08x said:

Are you sure all of that competition doesn't help Spiderman more than it hurts? Sony fans love this pathetic excuse but never think of the alternative. Would Playstation as a platform be as big as it is without all of those 3rd party AAA titles? Does all of that not allow Spiderman to sell to a bigger base, which it wouldn't have if those 3rd party games weren't selling millions of consoles. Could Sony's first party might still sell 120 million consoles, allowing Spiderman to reach the heights it does reach? We will never see the day Sony has to support their own platform, so lets drop the bullshit competition nonsense. Spiderman would probably sell less than 5 million if Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto wasn't too busy selling consoles better. So maybe Sony's first party games should be more grateful 3rd parties help them carry the load.



toru_bozu said:
pikashoe said:

You clearly don't understand. No one is saying that Sony 1st party games don't help sell a lot consoles. What was being said is that if you took all the major 3rd party games away, PlayStation would sell less then it currently sells and that would have a negative effect on how much 1st party titles can sell. 

The reason Sony sells better than Xbox is mostly down to Sony having much better 1st party support. It is the combination of 1st and 3rd party that makes Sony consoles sell so well. 

Man, I don't want to argue. Because you clearly don't understand what I'm saying. Not even a word I claim xPhenom08x say that "Sony 1st party games don't help sell a lot consoles". Downplaying =/= Don't sell a lot. I agree 3rd party do help but no more than what the 1st party contribute as well. In Sony case, more because of 1st party in my opinion.  Instead what xPhenom08x said is because of 3rd party titles like COD and GTA is the reason PS4 consoles selling better and help them carrying the load. Not even mentioning a single 1st party title there. Downplaying. Only 3rd party games busy doing the work, and help Spider-Man reaching bigger base. Reread my post again, I may not use the word 'combination' specifically but, your last paragraph is my point! So, we agree on that. With Sony quality 1st party titles, PS4 become as big as it is right now and selling better, not solely because of 3rd party AAA doing the considerable work.

xPhenom08x said:

Are you sure all of that competition doesn't help Spiderman more than it hurts? Sony fans love this pathetic excuse but never think of the alternative. Would Playstation as a platform be as big as it is without all of those 3rd party AAA titles? Does all of that not allow Spiderman to sell to a bigger base, which it wouldn't have if those 3rd party games weren't selling millions of consoles. Could Sony's first party might still sell 120 million consoles, allowing Spiderman to reach the heights it does reach? We will never see the day Sony has to support their own platform, so lets drop the bullshit competition nonsense. Spiderman would probably sell less than 5 million if Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto wasn't too busy selling consoles better. So maybe Sony's first party games should be more grateful 3rd parties help them carry the load.

All he's saying here is that 3rd party's help the console reach a wider audience which in turn helps the 1st party games sell even more. Nothing he said implies that 1st party games don't help sell the console. What he said here was disputing the idea that 3rd party games hurt the sales of 1st party games. Even then he doesn't outright say that this is definitely the case. Just that it might be the case.



DonFerrari said:
pikashoe said:

I looked through his posts again. And nope that was not the line he was taking. He was clearly saying that 3rd party games contribute to PlayStation HW sales and that the extra HW sales that 3rd partys provide add more to 1st party sales than the competition from these same games takes away.

I understand that English may not be your 1st language so you may have misinterpreted what he meant. 

Sure pika, and I understand that because you agree with him you may not have noticed the tone, personal accusations and the intention to downplay the sales of Sony exclusives. If you read this and other threads you'll see that at most Sony fans have been saying Sony is approaching Nintendo level of sales and this is shoot down with exaggerated comparison and "to reach Nintendo you have to sell this much...." and that quantity keeps changing to the point even most Nintendo titles doesn't qualify.

You really need to stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is arguing in bad faith. I agree with some things he says and disagree with others. Even the guy he was talking to I agreed with some things he said. Even you on a rare occasion can say something I agree with. I don t keep an eye on everything he says but he didn't seem to be downplaying Sony sales. If what he says is considering downplaying then a lot of Sony fans in this thread are just as guilty.

I don't know what you consider Nintendo level sales. But for me it means that the ps4s top 10 best selling games needs to be on a similar level to the switches top 10 best selling games. Which at the moment is not the case. You can hold me to that. 

I'll agree that there are some obnoxious Nintendo fans but I find that Sony fans can be equally as bad.



pikashoe said:

You clearly don't understand. No one is saying that Sony 1st party games don't help sell a lot consoles. What was being said is that if you took all the major 3rd party games away, PlayStation would sell less then it currently sells and that would have a negative effect on how much 1st party titles can sell. 

The reason Sony sells better than Xbox is mostly down to Sony having much better 1st party support. It is the combination of 1st and 3rd party that makes Sony consoles sell so well. 

First party is one factor, but Sony also went to market earlier, captured the userbase and expanded the entire medium. There's a lot to be said being the first or a pioneer in any industry. Xbox had a similar formula but 7 years later to market- by that stage PlayStation was already the established market leader. 

Yes, it's the 'play everything' approach that works for Sony- 80% third parties 20% first party by revenue. While the complete reverse is true of Nintendo- FY 18' had a 80% first party 20% third party revenue split. In the end though Sony tends to sell far, far more software overall. The PS4 currently has sold more total software than the Wii, Wii U and Switch combined. 

There's also the history and entire approach to first party development- the more you look at it the more the comparison just seems like Apples to Oranges.