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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Phil Spencer: Xbox Series didn’t need a system seller at launch

eva01beserk on 14 November 2020
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:

If someone only plans on owning a single non-nintendo console, and  hasn't bought a next gen non-nintendo console yet, then they are up for grabs from either Sony or MS. If Sony grabs them first, then MS just lost a customer and vice versa. You can't look at last gen and assume that everyone is going to stick to the same brand they had. Sure, most will, but there's enough swing consumers that will go either direction at the start of a new gen. A new generation is supposed to be a total reset anyway. Right? 

It is a reset, though the odds are stacked against Xbox. I won’t re open the Bethesda debate, just that they did say the reason they can’t outright brag is because the deal won’t go through until next year. Seems to be a legal issue to being vague is all they can do. Once the deal goes through officially they better get more clear fast is all I’ll say. It would go a ways if people knew definitively. 

And technically Xbox games aren’t exclusive. It’s Xbox One, Series S/X, Windows Store, Steam, Game Pass, and Android mobile devices. PS not having future games is still insanely pro consumer based on the variety and low barrier options. 

So MS expects people that don't have a PC or Xbox to play their poached studios' games on their phone? Yeah, that'll go down well.

It’s an option, that’s kinda the whole thing with Xbox. I can see Xcloud breaking out in Asia if marketed properly. But it is also used to supplement console and PC gaming.

But hey, if you got a really loyal PS only gamer, your options are to stay salty, buy a Xbox or play the game on their current phone by subbing to Xcloud Game Pass. 

Playing on a phone with input lag, and a screen smaller than a Switch is so inferior of a gaming option that you shouldn't even bother with it. If MS seriously thinks this is a realistic option then they've lost their minds. If they are going to keep their poached games off PS5, then they should just admit that their "Pro-Consumer" stance was all a bunch of spin to cover up the fact that they needed to expand their market outside of console gaming to survive.

The lag has been improving steadily, and shouldn’t be a problem with a strong home wifi signal. The small screen is funny considering many Nintendo handhelds had screens smaller then modern smartphones...I wonder if you complained their screens were small back in the day. 

I think we all know they had to expand beyond consoles to survive, but what’s your point? Seems salty that Xbox expanding its reach where Sony stuck in the old ways. 

Also your use of poached is a little salty. They were 3rd party. Now they are 1st. Sony buys studios too ya know...but in their case I bet you’d think they were “uplifted” in a warm embrace :p

Runing a little fast and loose with the salty remarks. As far as I remember that is a moderation worthy insult. Somehow seems fine for you to spam it. 



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

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LudicrousSpeed on 14 November 2020
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I don't understand what's wrong with what he's saying. He's absolutely right. In the context of Holiday 2020, it really doesn't matter. It's absolutely more important to have quality exclusives in a Holiday where a console is less supply constrained and more demand constrained, like when a console is already a year older, than it is in the launch when the system will sell out anyways. Now saying that it isn't important at all, isn't true, because it's important to keep demand up. The fact is that when after Playstation 5 is sold out this holiday, you'll still have people buying it for games like Demon's Souls, and enhanced versions of PS4 games. But at the same time, if Halo comes out early next year, that would have a similar effect. What he said here, isn't really untrue, and not in the "i'm technically right but i'm being disingenuous" kind of way, just genuinely he's not wrong.

Nothing wrong with it. Just the typical teh Chartz obsession with everything he says. Most who replied didn’t even read the interview. Someone is even comparing him to Donald fucking Trump LOL

The same people claiming he is wrong in this thread have been in plenty of other threads talking about how the X|S has no killer apps for launch. Seems they like to have it both ways, a console has no killer apps and is still sold out everywhere. But hey it also needs killer apps to sell out!



DonFerrari on 14 November 2020
sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:
Don't need to do ALL this workaround tô defend Phill. Just ask yourself the question, If Halo Infinite launched with the console would be say It isn't important to have a good launch lineup? Since you know he wouldn't then it's quite obvious he is doing damage Control.

Of course he is. I don’t think anybody is disputing his spin. That said you have to agree a launch is more dependent on supply then killer apps. It’s both, spin and fact. Halo serves a greater good launching next year, though it sucks to wait. 

Of course It is. I have agreed with this on the news section and here. They would sell basically ALL they put out, and Will be like that for até least a couple months. That IS what rubs Salt in the wound because the way he puts doesn't really acknowledge the issue of not having a lineup basically spinning It out tô a non-issue. And you know that some are defending the speech instead of Just pointing out that It is factually correct but still without Tate.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 14 November 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:
Don't need to do ALL this workaround tô defend Phill. Just ask yourself the question, If Halo Infinite launched with the console would be say It isn't important to have a good launch lineup? Since you know he wouldn't then it's quite obvious he is doing damage Control.


And at the same time you should ask yourself  one question, if Halo Infinite were launching with X|S and was phenomenal and rated 95 meta, how many more X|S consoles would be sold at launch versus what is being sold now? The answer of course, is zero. 

I doubt you read the interview, he was asked directly about the Halo Infinite delay and launching without a “marquee game” as a result. So yeah, obviously if Halo Infinite wasn’t delayed, he wouldn’t have been asked that question and thus wouldn’t have given that answer. That’s called common sense, not “damage control”.

The good thing about you is that you are consistent. And you are consistently wrong. I read It and you seem to be the one to Go in denial. Again I already Said the lineup wouldn't change Sales as It would be sold out regardless, basically determined by production with pre-orders working as thermostate. But he used It as a way tô deflect the problem that wasn't only Halo missing, but he doesn't have a single 1st party. And when innevitally PS5 numbers show and we know It Will be bigger what Will be the excuse? They couldn't produce more?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

LudicrousSpeed on 14 November 2020

Lineup wouldn’t change sales you say... and yet I am wrong for saying lineup wouldn’t change the sales. And Phil is spinning by saying lineup wouldn’t change the sales. Huh, weird how that works. Almost as if you’re going to take issue with anything he says regardless of how logical it is. I mean here you are literally agreeing with him.And yeah, launch sales for new hardware always boil down to how much you produce. We all know this.



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BillyBong on 14 November 2020
sales2099 said:
BillyBong said:
sales2099 said:
BillyBong said:
Azzanation said:
I think its rather funny and sad that people will debate against what Phil is saying even though the Xbox Series is selling the best it ever has at launch with ZERO launch killer apps/System sellers.What are these so called gamer's actually arguing against? Is Xbox falling off a cliff due to not having a System seller? How can Xbox be more successful than ever and tell people they don't need a system seller, and people jump out of no where and claim they are wrong. They delayed Halo Infinite because they know they don't need it at launch.This just feels like Phil continues to put the kids in the gaming market to bed.

They are selling because it's a just released shiny new box meant to signal the start of their new gen. Just because they made more units to start off this gen than they did last gen means nothing at this point.  They said the same thing last gen even with the E3 flub..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.xbox.com/en-us/2013/11/23/xbox-one-biggest-launch-in-xbox-history/amp/

How'd that turn out in the grand scheme of things?  

Well your point ignores that Xbox One was weaker and $100 more expensive then PS4. Series X is on par with PS5 and has the power narrative. Series S is $100 cheaper. And Game Pass presents a value proposition Xbox One didn’t have nor something Sony can match. Also consider the PR backlash in 2013 to Xbox largely experiencing a renaissance of new studios now. There’s actually a lot of factors at play. 

Didn't ignore anything.. giving you the facts.  Xbone still had their biggest launch at the time with a higher pricing and the E3 flubs.  They were sold out for a bit afterwards.. no different from what's happening now.  And yes, gamepass, somehow still a viable substitute in some minds that being able to play last gen stuff and 3rd party means it's ok that we have nothing right now that can actually take advantage of a newer more powerful system.  If gamepass is so awesome, then why even buy the new system now if the old is just as capable?  And yes.. many new factors at play, but history tends to repeat itself.  sometimes it's like, fool me once..., fool me twice..., fool me three times..., guess if this gen plays the same, it'll be fool me four.. *shrugs*  

Will just see how things trend 6 months into this gen.. 

Hey, can’t beat good old fashioned value bang for buck. To many enthusiasts the optimizations and better loading times is reason enough. I’m personally holding back, I’ll be part of the sales bump when Halo releases. 

I won't argue that gamepass is a value.. but buying a new console just for gamepass is rather a weak argument.  Best value would be to stuck with gen 8 until MS releases something worth buying into the new gen for.  This is the perception that's gonna be around when the hype has cooled down and units are plentiful at the shelves.  Think casuals or those toeing the line really gonna drop $500 on a console just to play mostly last gen and third party and wait a year before their purchase makes any sense?  Again.. think MS needed to hit one out of the park at launch to change this negative perception they've had hanging over their heads.. don't see how this launch changed perceptions or helped them any.

Last edited by BillyBong - on 15 November 2020

Man.. I hate it when your girl has to leave my place to come back to you..

sales2099 on 14 November 2020
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Lag will always be an issue, unless you have a server farm every so many miles. Nintendo handheld games were designed with a small screen in mind. 8 and 16 bit is perfectly acceptable on a small screen. DS and 3DS had two screens to allow for better placing of UI elements, which kept small screens from getting crowded. Things like small screens or 480p can be perfectly acceptable in the past, and not acceptable now. If a modern console tried displaying only at 480p most people would laugh at it. Yet during the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era 480p was fine. Likewise small screens for portable games were fine in the past. If anybody tried that today they'd be rightfully laughed at. Standards change as tech improves.

My point is they  refused to simply admit that, and instead ran a disingenuous "Pro-Consumer" marketing campaign, after trying to force always online nonsense on gamers. Nintendo is honest. Sony isn't entirely honest, but hasn't had a reason to be deceptive for over a decade. MS on the other hand has gone full on sophist mode. They don't care about the truth. They just care about "winning" the narrative or argument at the time.

I coverd Sony buying studios in my response to LudicrousSpeed.

Thanks.

P.S. I own a $2000 PC, and it will be what I play a lot of 3rd party AAA games on this gen. So it's kinda hard for me to personally be salty. I just wish MS would be honest for a change.

While I wouldn’t choose mobile streaming over couch gaming, I just wouldn’t dismiss mobile streaming for the future, as well as certain markets where gaming on mobile is prevalent over consoles. And again it’s a cheap option to buying a Xbox. 

Your main issue seems to be their PR department over anything else. And in the grand scheme this is peanuts to nitpick. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 14 November 2020
eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:

If someone only plans on owning a single non-nintendo console, and  hasn't bought a next gen non-nintendo console yet, then they are up for grabs from either Sony or MS. If Sony grabs them first, then MS just lost a customer and vice versa. You can't look at last gen and assume that everyone is going to stick to the same brand they had. Sure, most will, but there's enough swing consumers that will go either direction at the start of a new gen. A new generation is supposed to be a total reset anyway. Right? 

It is a reset, though the odds are stacked against Xbox. I won’t re open the Bethesda debate, just that they did say the reason they can’t outright brag is because the deal won’t go through until next year. Seems to be a legal issue to being vague is all they can do. Once the deal goes through officially they better get more clear fast is all I’ll say. It would go a ways if people knew definitively. 

And technically Xbox games aren’t exclusive. It’s Xbox One, Series S/X, Windows Store, Steam, Game Pass, and Android mobile devices. PS not having future games is still insanely pro consumer based on the variety and low barrier options. 

So MS expects people that don't have a PC or Xbox to play their poached studios' games on their phone? Yeah, that'll go down well.

It’s an option, that’s kinda the whole thing with Xbox. I can see Xcloud breaking out in Asia if marketed properly. But it is also used to supplement console and PC gaming.

But hey, if you got a really loyal PS only gamer, your options are to stay salty, buy a Xbox or play the game on their current phone by subbing to Xcloud Game Pass. 

Playing on a phone with input lag, and a screen smaller than a Switch is so inferior of a gaming option that you shouldn't even bother with it. If MS seriously thinks this is a realistic option then they've lost their minds. If they are going to keep their poached games off PS5, then they should just admit that their "Pro-Consumer" stance was all a bunch of spin to cover up the fact that they needed to expand their market outside of console gaming to survive.

The lag has been improving steadily, and shouldn’t be a problem with a strong home wifi signal. The small screen is funny considering many Nintendo handhelds had screens smaller then modern smartphones...I wonder if you complained their screens were small back in the day. 

I think we all know they had to expand beyond consoles to survive, but what’s your point? Seems salty that Xbox expanding its reach where Sony stuck in the old ways. 

Also your use of poached is a little salty. They were 3rd party. Now they are 1st. Sony buys studios too ya know...but in their case I bet you’d think they were “uplifted” in a warm embrace :p

Runing a little fast and loose with the salty remarks. As far as I remember that is a moderation worthy insult. Somehow seems fine for you to spam it. 

Imo calling Bethesda a “poached” developer warranted my response. Like the acquisition was without honour or something. It was done with mutual agreement with a premium that is unheard of in this industry. But sure that dastardly MS “poached” poor and innocent Bethesda. 

So that’s where I’m coming from and I hope the mods see that too. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 14 November 2020
DonFerrari said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:
Don't need to do ALL this workaround tô defend Phill. Just ask yourself the question, If Halo Infinite launched with the console would be say It isn't important to have a good launch lineup? Since you know he wouldn't then it's quite obvious he is doing damage Control.


And at the same time you should ask yourself  one question, if Halo Infinite were launching with X|S and was phenomenal and rated 95 meta, how many more X|S consoles would be sold at launch versus what is being sold now? The answer of course, is zero. 

I doubt you read the interview, he was asked directly about the Halo Infinite delay and launching without a “marquee game” as a result. So yeah, obviously if Halo Infinite wasn’t delayed, he wouldn’t have been asked that question and thus wouldn’t have given that answer. That’s called common sense, not “damage control”.

The good thing about you is that you are consistent. And you are consistently wrong. I read It and you seem to be the one to Go in denial. Again I already Said the lineup wouldn't change Sales as It would be sold out regardless, basically determined by production with pre-orders working as thermostate. But he used It as a way tô deflect the problem that wasn't only Halo missing, but he doesn't have a single 1st party. And when innevitally PS5 numbers show and we know It Will be bigger what Will be the excuse? They couldn't produce more?

Poor Gears Tactics lol.

I get it, the isometric turn based strategy genre is niche compared to the mass appeal of say Spiderman. Still a cross gen game though. Shame it’s forgotten in all this. 

(I’m pretty sure your gonna say it’s been out since April but I’m also sure I’m not alone where I had to wait till now to play it on console because I am not a PC gamer)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Cerebralbore101 on 14 November 2020
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Lag will always be an issue, unless you have a server farm every so many miles. Nintendo handheld games were designed with a small screen in mind. 8 and 16 bit is perfectly acceptable on a small screen. DS and 3DS had two screens to allow for better placing of UI elements, which kept small screens from getting crowded. Things like small screens or 480p can be perfectly acceptable in the past, and not acceptable now. If a modern console tried displaying only at 480p most people would laugh at it. Yet during the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era 480p was fine. Likewise small screens for portable games were fine in the past. If anybody tried that today they'd be rightfully laughed at. Standards change as tech improves.

My point is they  refused to simply admit that, and instead ran a disingenuous "Pro-Consumer" marketing campaign, after trying to force always online nonsense on gamers. Nintendo is honest. Sony isn't entirely honest, but hasn't had a reason to be deceptive for over a decade. MS on the other hand has gone full on sophist mode. They don't care about the truth. They just care about "winning" the narrative or argument at the time.

I coverd Sony buying studios in my response to LudicrousSpeed.

Thanks.

P.S. I own a $2000 PC, and it will be what I play a lot of 3rd party AAA games on this gen. So it's kinda hard for me to personally be salty. I just wish MS would be honest for a change.

While I wouldn’t choose mobile streaming over couch gaming, I just wouldn’t dismiss mobile streaming for the future, as well as certain markets where gaming on mobile is prevalent over consoles. And again it’s a cheap option to buying a Xbox. 

Your main issue seems to be their PR department over anything else. And in the grand scheme this is peanuts to nitpick. 

Streaming games will never be a big thing. This forum already had that argument ten times over with Google Stadia. You need actual hardware to run the games off of. This is why Series S + Gamepass is such a good idea. If you go back to some old Stadia threads you can see me talking all about it there, defending MS and Gamepass, against pro-stadia people.

Console gaming and mobile gaming are two different markets. You can't put console games on mobile and expect mobile gamers to pay for it. You can't put console games on mobile and expect console gamers to pay for it either. The people playing candy crush or cut the rope or whatever dumb crap is on mobile aren't interested in console games. And console game players aren't interested in playing on mobile with inferior controls, input lag, and a tiny screen.

The only way steaming to mobile will work is if MS lowers the standards of their games so much that their franchises resemble whale hunting mobile games more than traditional console games. But if that happens I and many other people will lose all interest in their franchises. And while I think MS is a bad company, I don't think they are batshit insane enough to stoop that low.


sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:

If someone only plans on owning a single non-nintendo console, and  hasn't bought a next gen non-nintendo console yet, then they are up for grabs from either Sony or MS. If Sony grabs them first, then MS just lost a customer and vice versa. You can't look at last gen and assume that everyone is going to stick to the same brand they had. Sure, most will, but there's enough swing consumers that will go either direction at the start of a new gen. A new generation is supposed to be a total reset anyway. Right? 

It is a reset, though the odds are stacked against Xbox. I won’t re open the Bethesda debate, just that they did say the reason they can’t outright brag is because the deal won’t go through until next year. Seems to be a legal issue to being vague is all they can do. Once the deal goes through officially they better get more clear fast is all I’ll say. It would go a ways if people knew definitively. 

And technically Xbox games aren’t exclusive. It’s Xbox One, Series S/X, Windows Store, Steam, Game Pass, and Android mobile devices. PS not having future games is still insanely pro consumer based on the variety and low barrier options. 

So MS expects people that don't have a PC or Xbox to play their poached studios' games on their phone? Yeah, that'll go down well.

It’s an option, that’s kinda the whole thing with Xbox. I can see Xcloud breaking out in Asia if marketed properly. But it is also used to supplement console and PC gaming.

But hey, if you got a really loyal PS only gamer, your options are to stay salty, buy a Xbox or play the game on their current phone by subbing to Xcloud Game Pass. 

Playing on a phone with input lag, and a screen smaller than a Switch is so inferior of a gaming option that you shouldn't even bother with it. If MS seriously thinks this is a realistic option then they've lost their minds. If they are going to keep their poached games off PS5, then they should just admit that their "Pro-Consumer" stance was all a bunch of spin to cover up the fact that they needed to expand their market outside of console gaming to survive.

The lag has been improving steadily, and shouldn’t be a problem with a strong home wifi signal. The small screen is funny considering many Nintendo handhelds had screens smaller then modern smartphones...I wonder if you complained their screens were small back in the day. 

I think we all know they had to expand beyond consoles to survive, but what’s your point? Seems salty that Xbox expanding its reach where Sony stuck in the old ways. 

Also your use of poached is a little salty. They were 3rd party. Now they are 1st. Sony buys studios too ya know...but in their case I bet you’d think they were “uplifted” in a warm embrace :p

Runing a little fast and loose with the salty remarks. As far as I remember that is a moderation worthy insult. Somehow seems fine for you to spam it. 

Imo calling Bethesda a “poached” developer warranted my response. Like the acquisition was without honour or something. It was done with mutual agreement with a premium that is unheard of in this industry. But sure that dastardly MS “poached” poor and innocent Bethesda. 

So that’s where I’m coming from and I hope the mods see that too. 

As a 3rd party dev, Bethesda existed in the wild. Any gamer that wanted to play a Bethesda game could play it on their platform of choice, with the exception of Nintendo. But even then there are a few Bethesda games on Switch. Now, if MS goes through with Bethesda exclusivity they will have removed all those Bethesda games from the wild, making them PC/Xbox only. I'm sure Bethesda is more than happy to be purchased, but that's beside the point. If MS does indeed plan on buying up even more studios simply to spitefully keep them off PS5, then they are insanely hypocritical, and damaging to gaming as a whole. MS can do whatever they want with their own home grown content. If you made a game you have every right to sell it however you want. But trying to moneyhat 3rd party games off of PS5, simply because you want to monopolize the gaming industry is a scumbag move. Anyway, call it whatever you want. Poaching, Scalping, Extreme Moneyhatting. Either way it goes against their previous PR spin nonsense that "Exclusives are evil. Sony is evil for making better games than us, and then not selling those games on our platforms!!!"