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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Phil Spencer: Xbox Series didn’t need a system seller at launch

Talking about launch, not sure why he changed the topic to a year from now.......He comments come of as “we don't gaf about your launch experience, just gimme money”1st party exclusives is what gamers have come to expect in this industry Phil.



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Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Lag will always be an issue, unless you have a server farm every so many miles. Nintendo handheld games were designed with a small screen in mind. 8 and 16 bit is perfectly acceptable on a small screen. DS and 3DS had two screens to allow for better placing of UI elements, which kept small screens from getting crowded. Things like small screens or 480p can be perfectly acceptable in the past, and not acceptable now. If a modern console tried displaying only at 480p most people would laugh at it. Yet during the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era 480p was fine. Likewise small screens for portable games were fine in the past. If anybody tried that today they'd be rightfully laughed at. Standards change as tech improves.

My point is they  refused to simply admit that, and instead ran a disingenuous "Pro-Consumer" marketing campaign, after trying to force always online nonsense on gamers. Nintendo is honest. Sony isn't entirely honest, but hasn't had a reason to be deceptive for over a decade. MS on the other hand has gone full on sophist mode. They don't care about the truth. They just care about "winning" the narrative or argument at the time.

I coverd Sony buying studios in my response to LudicrousSpeed.

Thanks.

P.S. I own a $2000 PC, and it will be what I play a lot of 3rd party AAA games on this gen. So it's kinda hard for me to personally be salty. I just wish MS would be honest for a change.

While I wouldn’t choose mobile streaming over couch gaming, I just wouldn’t dismiss mobile streaming for the future, as well as certain markets where gaming on mobile is prevalent over consoles. And again it’s a cheap option to buying a Xbox. 

Your main issue seems to be their PR department over anything else. And in the grand scheme this is peanuts to nitpick. 

Streaming games will never be a big thing. This forum already had that argument ten times over with Google Stadia. You need actual hardware to run the games off of. This is why Series S + Gamepass is such a good idea. If you go back to some old Stadia threads you can see me talking all about it there, defending MS and Gamepass, against pro-stadia people.

Console gaming and mobile gaming are two different markets. You can't put console games on mobile and expect mobile gamers to pay for it. You can't put console games on mobile and expect console gamers to pay for it either. The people playing candy crush or cut the rope or whatever dumb crap is on mobile aren't interested in console games. And console game players aren't interested in playing on mobile with inferior controls, input lag, and a tiny screen.

The only way steaming to mobile will work is if MS lowers the standards of their games so much that their franchises resemble whale hunting mobile games more than traditional console games. But if that happens I and many other people will lose all interest in their franchises. And while I think MS is a bad company, I don't think they are batshit insane enough to stoop that low.


sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
sales2099 said:

If someone only plans on owning a single non-nintendo console, and  hasn't bought a next gen non-nintendo console yet, then they are up for grabs from either Sony or MS. If Sony grabs them first, then MS just lost a customer and vice versa. You can't look at last gen and assume that everyone is going to stick to the same brand they had. Sure, most will, but there's enough swing consumers that will go either direction at the start of a new gen. A new generation is supposed to be a total reset anyway. Right? 

It is a reset, though the odds are stacked against Xbox. I won’t re open the Bethesda debate, just that they did say the reason they can’t outright brag is because the deal won’t go through until next year. Seems to be a legal issue to being vague is all they can do. Once the deal goes through officially they better get more clear fast is all I’ll say. It would go a ways if people knew definitively. 

And technically Xbox games aren’t exclusive. It’s Xbox One, Series S/X, Windows Store, Steam, Game Pass, and Android mobile devices. PS not having future games is still insanely pro consumer based on the variety and low barrier options. 

So MS expects people that don't have a PC or Xbox to play their poached studios' games on their phone? Yeah, that'll go down well.

It’s an option, that’s kinda the whole thing with Xbox. I can see Xcloud breaking out in Asia if marketed properly. But it is also used to supplement console and PC gaming.

But hey, if you got a really loyal PS only gamer, your options are to stay salty, buy a Xbox or play the game on their current phone by subbing to Xcloud Game Pass. 

Playing on a phone with input lag, and a screen smaller than a Switch is so inferior of a gaming option that you shouldn't even bother with it. If MS seriously thinks this is a realistic option then they've lost their minds. If they are going to keep their poached games off PS5, then they should just admit that their "Pro-Consumer" stance was all a bunch of spin to cover up the fact that they needed to expand their market outside of console gaming to survive.

The lag has been improving steadily, and shouldn’t be a problem with a strong home wifi signal. The small screen is funny considering many Nintendo handhelds had screens smaller then modern smartphones...I wonder if you complained their screens were small back in the day. 

I think we all know they had to expand beyond consoles to survive, but what’s your point? Seems salty that Xbox expanding its reach where Sony stuck in the old ways. 

Also your use of poached is a little salty. They were 3rd party. Now they are 1st. Sony buys studios too ya know...but in their case I bet you’d think they were “uplifted” in a warm embrace :p

Runing a little fast and loose with the salty remarks. As far as I remember that is a moderation worthy insult. Somehow seems fine for you to spam it. 

Imo calling Bethesda a “poached” developer warranted my response. Like the acquisition was without honour or something. It was done with mutual agreement with a premium that is unheard of in this industry. But sure that dastardly MS “poached” poor and innocent Bethesda. 

So that’s where I’m coming from and I hope the mods see that too. 

As a 3rd party dev, Bethesda existed in the wild. Any gamer that wanted to play a Bethesda game could play it on their platform of choice, with the exception of Nintendo. But even then there are a few Bethesda games on Switch. Now, if MS goes through with Bethesda exclusivity they will have removed all those Bethesda games from the wild, making them PC/Xbox only. I'm sure Bethesda is more than happy to be purchased, but that's beside the point. If MS does indeed plan on buying up even more studios simply to spitefully keep them off PS5, then they are insanely hypocritical, and damaging to gaming as a whole. MS can do whatever they want with their own home grown content. If you made a game you have every right to sell it however you want. But trying to moneyhat 3rd party games off of PS5, simply because you want to monopolize the gaming industry is a scumbag move. Anyway, call it whatever you want. Poaching, Scalping, Extreme Moneyhatting. Either way it goes against their previous PR spin nonsense that "Exclusives are evil. Sony is evil for making better games than us, and then not selling those games on our platforms!!!"

Actually, MS can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.



chakkra said:

Actually, MS can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, WB Games can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, EA can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, Activision/Blizzard can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

All it takes is a simple change of the company doing the scumbaggery to highlight how silly your comment was. MS is just as bad as EA, or Activision/Blizzard, or WB games. The only difference is they have a marketing department that can play games journalists and gamers like a fiddle.

If Sony had jack-all to launch with we'd never hear the end of it. Yet this entire thread is nothing but PR spin, and Xbox apologetics. The fact of the matter is you need good launch content to get people showing the launch games to others, to generate discussion and hype, to keep sales strong throughout the year. MS' is going to lose sales momentum around April. Whenever a new console launches there's always a crowd that will run out and buy it games or not. Because of this Christmas console sales are pretty much guaranteed to sell out. But after that you need something to move the system. Phil knows this, but instead  of just admitting the obvious he tries to spin it anyway he can. Once that core early adopter audience is tapped out Xbox is going to be in a bind until they can get some new games. Nintendo has so many amazing games at this point that they can afford to have an abysmal year of new releases like 2020, and still keep chugging on. That's what happens when 2019 is absolutely stacked for Switch games releases. We got nearly two years worth of games in one in 2019 from Nintendo. Sony on the other hand is on what seems to be a never ending hot streak with quality exclusive content. Instead of traditionally launching a new PS console with barebones exclusive content, they have three amazing games coming out within the first six months. Eventually this reality is going to catch up with MS.

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 14 November 2020

Cerebralbore101 said:
chakkra said:

Actually, MS can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, WB Games can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, EA can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, Activision/Blizzard can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

All it takes is a simple change of the company doing the scumbaggery to highlight how silly your comment was. MS is just as bad as EA, or Activision/Blizzard, or WB games.

I would also add there:

Actually, Sony can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.



chakkra said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
chakkra said:

Actually, MS can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, WB Games can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, EA can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, Activision/Blizzard can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

All it takes is a simple change of the company doing the scumbaggery to highlight how silly your comment was. MS is just as bad as EA, or Activision/Blizzard, or WB games.

I would also add there:

Actually, Sony can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Last I checked Sony doesn't inject MTX into every one of their games like WB. They don't take beloved franchises and try to shoehorn them into pathetic mobile offerings like Activision. They don't buy up 3rd party studios and then slowly run them into the ground ala EA. Also, what content has Sony bought on the street? Or are you like others that can't see the difference between buying a studio that has almost exclusively developed games for your platform for 25 years, and buying a studio that was 3rd party multiplat for 14 years?

If Epic games had bought out Bethesda, and now we were all having a discussion about whether or not Bethesda games would simply be delayed on Steam, or never coming to Steam at all, the conversation would be completely different. Everyone would be on the same page that Epic games was doing a scummy thing. But because console warz, MS doing the exact same thing receives praise.

And just to bring this all back to the original topic. Despite their rapid pace of acquisitions MS STILL doesn't have anything for the new Xbox line until at least after April. Meanwhile Nintendo is still surviving off it's 2019 games blowout, and Sony has had the best launch lineup in the history of their brand.



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Problem here is that Xbox Series X is not sold out worldwide. I am actually considering getting a Series X due to availability. PS5's are completely MIA.Maybe this is due to supply constraints but its likely that PS5 will just brutally outsell Series X. In which case I would say a marquee flagship first party title could have gone a long way in swaying some Sony fans to move over. Console loyalty is super fragile at the start of a gen when gamers are willing to make a shift.



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Cerebralbore101 said:
chakkra said:
Cerebralbore101 said:
chakkra said:

Actually, MS can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, WB Games can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, EA can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Actually, Activision/Blizzard can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

All it takes is a simple change of the company doing the scumbaggery to highlight how silly your comment was. MS is just as bad as EA, or Activision/Blizzard, or WB games.

I would also add there:

Actually, Sony can (and will) do whatever they want with both their own home grown content, and whatever content they buy on the street. I would recommend you to not let that upset you too much because it is a reality you simply cannot change.

Last I checked Sony doesn't inject MTX into every one of their games like WB. They don't take beloved franchises and try to shoehorn them into pathetic mobile offerings like Activision. They don't buy up 3rd party studios and then slowly run them into the ground ala EA. Also, what content has Sony bought on the street? Or are you like others that can't see the difference between buying a studio that has almost exclusively developed games for your platform for 25 years, and buying a studio that was 3rd party multiplat for 14 years?

If Epic games had bought out Bethesda, and now we were all having a discussion about whether or not Bethesda games would simply be delayed on Steam, or never coming to Steam at all, the conversation would be completely different. Everyone would be on the same page that Epic games was doing a scummy thing. But because console warz, MS doing the exact same thing receives praise.

And just to bring this all back to the original topic. Despite their rapid pace of acquisitions MS STILL doesn't have anything for the new Xbox line until at least after April. Meanwhile Nintendo is still surviving off it's 2019 games blowout, and Sony has had the best launch lineup in the history of their brand.

You're still missing my point. Regardless of how we feel about EA, Epic, Activision, MS, or Sony; at the end of the day, they will do whatever they want with their property, so it really is not healthy to let that get too much into our skins.

And yes, Microsoft have had their biggest launch ever, and we don't even know what the ceiling would have been if they had had enough stock; which again, is already proving Phil right, regardless of how we feel about it.



LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:
Don't need to do ALL this workaround tô defend Phill. Just ask yourself the question, If Halo Infinite launched with the console would be say It isn't important to have a good launch lineup? Since you know he wouldn't then it's quite obvious he is doing damage Control.


And at the same time you should ask yourself  one question, if Halo Infinite were launching with X|S and was phenomenal and rated 95 meta, how many more X|S consoles would be sold at launch versus what is being sold now? The answer of course, is zero. 

I doubt you read the interview, he was asked directly about the Halo Infinite delay and launching without a “marquee game” as a result. So yeah, obviously if Halo Infinite wasn’t delayed, he wouldn’t have been asked that question and thus wouldn’t have given that answer. That’s called common sense, not “damage control”.

The difference would be, if halo infinite launched with the system, people buying it would be showing it off to their friends saying you got to get one of these, it's awesome. Many you tube let's plays would be made, a lot of buzz and viral marketing to get the tier 2 customer group excited.

Instead we get, well it plays my old games better.

Doesn't matter at launch, does matter a lot for momentum. And true, what can he say. We fucked up, sorry.






sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

Imo calling Bethesda a “poached” developer warranted my response. Like the acquisition was without honour or something. It was done with mutual agreement with a premium that is unheard of in this industry. But sure that dastardly MS “poached” poor and innocent Bethesda. 

So that’s where I’m coming from and I hope the mods see that too. 

As a 3rd party dev, Bethesda existed in the wild. Any gamer that wanted to play a Bethesda game could play it on their platform of choice, with the exception of Nintendo. But even then there are a few Bethesda games on Switch. Now, if MS goes through with Bethesda exclusivity they will have removed all those Bethesda games from the wild, making them PC/Xbox only. I'm sure Bethesda is more than happy to be purchased, but that's beside the point. If MS does indeed plan on buying up even more studios simply to spitefully keep them off PS5, then they are insanely hypocritical, and damaging to gaming as a whole. MS can do whatever they want with their own home grown content. If you made a game you have every right to sell it however you want. But trying to moneyhat 3rd party games off of PS5, simply because you want to monopolize the gaming industry is a scumbag move. Anyway, call it whatever you want. Poaching, Scalping, Extreme Moneyhatting. Either way it goes against their previous PR spin nonsense that "Exclusives are evil. Sony is evil for making better games than us, and then not selling those games on our platforms!!!"

Both Sony and MS bought studios. What each studio made before hand is irrelevant. To me going 1st party takes the dev off the market. They objectively aren’t expected to make multiplat games because we know it’s a simple matter of ownership. But a dev staying 3rd party doing exclusive content...that’s dirty. 

But there really is no moral high ground you can take as a Sony fan, especially talking about “damaging gaming”. Sony drove Sega out of console gaming. The beat Nintendo so bad that they will never return to traditional consoles ever again. All their consoles have to be underpowered and have a unique hardware quirk to remain competitive. Sony almost drove out Xbox until Phil convinced MS to back them. 

You talk about MS trying to monopolize the gaming industry and scumbag moves...look no further then Sony having a rich history of choking out competition. As long as PS has more marketshare, Xbox should be buying and buying and buying and buying until Sony doesn’t have anybody left to moneyhat and we can finally have some long overdue equilibrium. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 15 November 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:




sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

Imo calling Bethesda a “poached” developer warranted my response. Like the acquisition was without honour or something. It was done with mutual agreement with a premium that is unheard of in this industry. But sure that dastardly MS “poached” poor and innocent Bethesda. 

So that’s where I’m coming from and I hope the mods see that too. 

As a 3rd party dev, Bethesda existed in the wild. Any gamer that wanted to play a Bethesda game could play it on their platform of choice, with the exception of Nintendo. But even then there are a few Bethesda games on Switch. Now, if MS goes through with Bethesda exclusivity they will have removed all those Bethesda games from the wild, making them PC/Xbox only. I'm sure Bethesda is more than happy to be purchased, but that's beside the point. If MS does indeed plan on buying up even more studios simply to spitefully keep them off PS5, then they are insanely hypocritical, and damaging to gaming as a whole. MS can do whatever they want with their own home grown content. If you made a game you have every right to sell it however you want. But trying to moneyhat 3rd party games off of PS5, simply because you want to monopolize the gaming industry is a scumbag move. Anyway, call it whatever you want. Poaching, Scalping, Extreme Moneyhatting. Either way it goes against their previous PR spin nonsense that "Exclusives are evil. Sony is evil for making better games than us, and then not selling those games on our platforms!!!"

Both Sony and MS bought studios. What each studio made before hand is irrelevant. To me going 1st party takes the dev off the market. They objectively aren’t expected to make multiplat games because we know it’s a simple matter of ownership. But a dev staying 3rd party doing exclusive content...that’s dirty. 

But there really is no moral high ground you can take as a Sony fan, especially talking about “damaging gaming”. Sony drove Sega out of console gaming. The beat Nintendo so bad that they will never return to traditional consoles ever again. All their consoles have to be underpowered and have a unique hardware quirk to remain competitive. Sony almost drove out Xbox until Phil convinced MS to back them. 

You talk about MS trying to monopolize the gaming industry and scumbag moves...look no further then Sony having a rich history of choking out competition. As long as PS has more marketshare, Xbox should be buying and buying and buying and buying until Sony doesn’t have anybody left to moneyhat and we can finally have some long overdue equilibrium. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Next thing I know you're going to tell me Atari's downfall was all because of evil, evil, Nintendo!

You think Nintendo and Sega's current situation is all because of Sony? Nintendo spent ten years pissing off 3rd party devs with NES and SNES era rules. Then during the N64 era they went with expensive cartridges instead of cheap CD disks, which pretty much guaranteed 3rd parties to jump ship to Playstation.

I absolutely love the Genesis/Megadrive, but let's be honest. It was Sega's only console to have close to half of the market share for a reason. Master System, Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn all made huge mistakes.

I hope you realize there's a difference between choking out competition by being a better company than them, and choking out competition by waving a wallet around. If I make a better product and my competition goes under, that just means I had a better product. If I make a product but sell it far below production costs in order to force my competition to sell at the same unsustainable price, then I'm engaging in monopolistic practices in an attempt to put my competition out of business. The hope is that I can sustain massive business losses far longer than my competition. Wal-Mart does this all the time with local businesses. They come into a town, sell everything for way the hell cheaper than it costs to produce, and then as soon as all the local places go under, they raise prices.

And sure, Sony engaged in a bit of this in the past. Pricing PS1 at $299, or putting a huge moneyhat on FF7 are two notable examples. But to just ignore the many multiple ways that Sega and Nintendo were digging their own graves? Wow. Just wow.