Forums - Sales Discussion - BOLD PREDICTION: PS5 and PS5D to be $399 and $349 respectively

EricHiggin said:
Intrinsic said:

Nope. The delay in pricing doesn't mean anything of the sort.

That and even what MS was doing is just marketing strategy. Nothing more, nothing less. People are just reading more into it than they need to.

If the Xbox stuff didn't leak, chances are that MS would have kept holding out.

Whoever announces price first, shows their hand and concedes an advantage to whoever comes after.

Especially with both of them releasing two SKUs. MS wouldn't want to rice the XSS at $399, then be DOA the second soy prices the PS5D at $399 too. Sony would not want to price the PS5 at $499, only for MS to come at $449 or even $$399 with the XSX...etc. Its just chess.

Funny enough, the fact sony upped shipments for the fiscal year (which in this case for the PS5 only covers Nov 2020 -March 2021, 4 months) from6Mto 10M tells you they always planned on coming in at a price point that could sell units quickly. Mind you, it took sony almost 10 months to ship 10M PS4s, and they plan on shipping that many in 4 months. You don't do that if your price target is $499 and $599. And sony would know that all too well. This is actually why I am almost certain that at least one PS5 SKU will be $399. The only question is if the other SKU will be $449, $499 or $349.

I'd hafta assume Nvidia 3000 Series GPU's had something to do with the delay, even though Nvidia would have a general idea of what the consoles would cost for consumers. They wouldn't know exactly how much MS and SNY would subsidize them though. 

RDNA 2 Big Navi isn't out yet for AMD and that's what's in the consoles. The sooner Nvidia knew the console pricing, the sooner they would have a better idea of what Big Navi PC cards would cost. AMD wouldn't want that. 

Considering the XBSS 'leak' didn't happen until after the recent Nvidia 3000 announcement happened, which apparently MS planned for the week after the leak, it's not surprising. MS and SNY may have had to wait until a later date, or after Nvidia announced, one or the other. Since SNY was always going to wait for MS, now SNY can go. 

I wouldn`t say it is impossible that AMD had in contract or asked for a favor that the console platforms didn`t reveal the price until they reveal the price of their GPUs (and that they were waiting on NVidia). If you are going to launch a little later there is no reason to reveal the price before.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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EricHiggin said:

I'd hafta assume Nvidia 3000 Series GPU's had something to do with the delay, even though Nvidia would have a general idea of what the consoles would cost for consumers. They wouldn't know exactly how much MS and SNY would subsidize them though. 

RDNA 2 Big Navi isn't out yet for AMD and that's what's in the consoles. The sooner Nvidia knew the console pricing, the sooner they would have a better idea of what Big Navi PC cards would cost. AMD wouldn't want that. 

Considering the XBSS 'leak' didn't happen until after the recent Nvidia 3000 announcement happened, which apparently MS planned for the week after the leak, it's not surprising. MS and SNY may have had to wait until a later date, or after Nvidia announced, one or the other. Since SNY was always going to wait for MS, now SNY can go. 

DonFerrari said:

I wouldn`t say it is impossible that AMD had in contract or asked for a favor that the console platforms didn`t reveal the price until they reveal the price of their GPUs (and that they were waiting on NVidia). If you are going to launch a little later there is no reason to reveal the price before.

Those are interesting takes... however, I feel they are unrelated. The only similarity these consoles share with "big navi" is actually that they are all based on RDNA2. It's likely that the smallest "big Navi" GPU would be bigger than or at least on par with the 52CU GPU found in the XSX but clocked higher.

I think this hole pricing delay from both sony and MS was due to each party just not wanting to be undercut. They are both in a position where they have a hard upper limit of $499. No one is going above that price point. Now the question would always be about how low you can go. 

eg... If sony went first and announced the PS5 at $399 and the PS5D at $299 for instance, there is not a chance in hell that MSsells the XSX for $499 and the XSS for $299. They would price match sony on the PS5 with their XSXand drop the XSS below $299, to either$249 0r $269 or even $199 flat. If MSwent first and priced the XSSat $399, then sony could either match that with their PS5D o kill it off or just price their PS5D at $449 and still probably kill it off.

They have both been in a war of attrition all of this year. And their weapon has been price.

Keep in mind, both Sony and MS would have looked at multiple pricing scenarios, they would have even had marketing already prepared for all those scenarios. All they needed was to see who blinks (or fucks up) first.

Now, sony has time to gage the market/media/fans/whatever and adjust what price they come in at accordingly. Now my can come in at $3349 PS5D and $449 PS5 and just be the all-round better value option compared to either the XSS or XSX. Or they can come in at $399 PS5D and $449 PS5 and be a better option compared to the XSX and a debatable (as opposed to clear cut)notion over the XSS.

I think this is what this whole pricing thing has been about. At this juncture, whatever is associated with any upcoming next-gen platforms would be associated with them for the rest of the generation. If sony comes in at $449 for the PS5, even if six months later the XSX drops to $449, i would always be said that the PS5is "cheaper" and a better value.



Intrinsic said:
EricHiggin said:

I'd hafta assume Nvidia 3000 Series GPU's had something to do with the delay, even though Nvidia would have a general idea of what the consoles would cost for consumers. They wouldn't know exactly how much MS and SNY would subsidize them though. 

RDNA 2 Big Navi isn't out yet for AMD and that's what's in the consoles. The sooner Nvidia knew the console pricing, the sooner they would have a better idea of what Big Navi PC cards would cost. AMD wouldn't want that. 

Considering the XBSS 'leak' didn't happen until after the recent Nvidia 3000 announcement happened, which apparently MS planned for the week after the leak, it's not surprising. MS and SNY may have had to wait until a later date, or after Nvidia announced, one or the other. Since SNY was always going to wait for MS, now SNY can go. 

DonFerrari said:

I wouldn`t say it is impossible that AMD had in contract or asked for a favor that the console platforms didn`t reveal the price until they reveal the price of their GPUs (and that they were waiting on NVidia). If you are going to launch a little later there is no reason to reveal the price before.

Those are interesting takes... however, I feel they are unrelated. The only similarity these consoles share with "big navi" is actually that they are all based on RDNA2. It's likely that the smallest "big Navi" GPU would be bigger than or at least on par with the 52CU GPU found in the XSX but clocked higher.

I think this hole pricing delay from both sony and MS was due to each party just not wanting to be undercut. They are both in a position where they have a hard upper limit of $499. No one is going above that price point. Now the question would always be about how low you can go. 

eg... If sony went first and announced the PS5 at $399 and the PS5D at $299 for instance, there is not a chance in hell that MSsells the XSX for $499 and the XSS for $299. They would price match sony on the PS5 with their XSXand drop the XSS below $299, to either$249 0r $269 or even $199 flat. If MSwent first and priced the XSSat $399, then sony could either match that with their PS5D o kill it off or just price their PS5D at $449 and still probably kill it off.

They have both been in a war of attrition all of this year. And their weapon has been price.

Keep in mind, both Sony and MS would have looked at multiple pricing scenarios, they would have even had marketing already prepared for all those scenarios. All they needed was to see who blinks (or fucks up) first.

Now, sony has time to gage the market/media/fans/whatever and adjust what price they come in at accordingly. Now my can come in at $3349 PS5D and $449 PS5 and just be the all-round better value option compared to either the XSS or XSX. Or they can come in at $399 PS5D and $449 PS5 and be a better option compared to the XSX and a debatable (as opposed to clear cut)notion over the XSS.

I think this is what this whole pricing thing has been about. At this juncture, whatever is associated with any upcoming next-gen platforms would be associated with them for the rest of the generation. If sony comes in at $449 for the PS5, even if six months later the XSX drops to $449, i would always be said that the PS5is "cheaper" and a better value.

Sure both were playing chicken, but from what was discovered from MS leak they were planning to reveal S and price this week (and seemling sony as well, but they decided to give themselves extra days to as you said gauge the market and fine tune their price) and sure I agree that they had several price point and marketing bullets prepared to use depending on what the competitor that gone first revealed. But truly is a lot of coincidence that both were gearing to reveal on the same week and short after NVidia revealed their new GPU family.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:

Sure both were playing chicken, but from what was discovered from MS leak they were planning to reveal S and price this week (and seemling sony as well, but they decided to give themselves extra days to as you said gauge the market and fine tune their price) and sure I agree that they had several price point and marketing bullets prepared to use depending on what the competitor that gone first revealed. But truly is a lot of coincidence that both were gearing to reveal on the same week and short after NVidia revealed their new GPU family.

I just don't see Nvidia having anything to do with it. I would write that off to just coincidence. There isn't anything Nvidiacould have announced that would anyway impact the announcements of next-gen console pricing or release dates. 

I believe that holistically there are, and have always been bounds to which both Sony and MS are confined to as to just how far they could hold back these announcements. It could never have been later than September, especially if they plan for a November launch. The primary reason for this is that pre-orders (when pricing is available) provides the most accurate gauge of demand specific to ever region they are in. That in turn feeds into how their very limited launch shipments are shared by region. And even how many units they should be aiming to make in the first 3-6 months.

This price game they had been playing could only go so far, this is why after MS announcements (in another thread), I said that at the very least, the main takeaway from this is that we can now confirm that a PS5 announcement will happen before Sept. 22.



Intrinsic said:
DonFerrari said:

Sure both were playing chicken, but from what was discovered from MS leak they were planning to reveal S and price this week (and seemling sony as well, but they decided to give themselves extra days to as you said gauge the market and fine tune their price) and sure I agree that they had several price point and marketing bullets prepared to use depending on what the competitor that gone first revealed. But truly is a lot of coincidence that both were gearing to reveal on the same week and short after NVidia revealed their new GPU family.

I just don't see Nvidia having anything to do with it. I would write that off to just coincidence. There isn't anything Nvidiacould have announced that would anyway impact the announcements of next-gen console pricing or release dates. 

I believe that holistically there are, and have always been bounds to which both Sony and MS are confined to as to just how far they could hold back these announcements. It could never have been later than September, especially if they plan for a November launch. The primary reason for this is that pre-orders (when pricing is available) provides the most accurate gauge of demand specific to ever region they are in. That in turn feeds into how their very limited launch shipments are shared by region. And even how many units they should be aiming to make in the first 3-6 months.

This price game they had been playing could only go so far, this is why after MS announcements (in another thread), I said that at the very least, the main takeaway from this is that we can now confirm that a PS5 announcement will happen before Sept. 22.

Sure nothing NVidia would announce would impact price and date for consoles. But could impact price and date of AMD GPUs, and being the GPU in the consoles of the same family, they revealing power and price would give better intel to NVidia of the prices AMD would likely practice with their GPUs.

The expected launch of PS5 will probably be close to XSX XSS and is close to the timeframe of PS4 and X1, still those two got their price revealed long before. And certainly 2 months if enough for preorder. And yes they had their limited timeframe to act and were using as most as possible.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Around the Network

At this point I have no friggin idea what to expect. I could literally see anything from 399-699 based on how people are talking about it. I still maintain it'll either be 499/449 or 449/399

But at this point this post is just a tag for the thread so I can keep up on what people are discussing until what I presume is going to be the announcement tomorrow. It speaks volumes that I often forget about Ubisoft and Microsoft events but am hyped and have been for this event since I learned about it. What can I say? The combo of Sony/Nintendo is basically perfect!



Considering they are even making a digital version at launch, i think if the disk version is anywhere at 399$, they didn't had to. The fact they are having problems manufacturing and shipping (by air which is so expensive), they probably won't take 100$ hit on each system as well.

I would go with conservative 499 and 449. But i have a feeling it will be 549$ and 499$.



My wallet supports your prediction ... my brain doesn't.



PDF said:
The delay in price signals that they were originally high compared to the Xbox X. I bet we see a $499 PS5 and $399-$449 PS5 Digital.

I don't see the logic behind that.

Sony is waiting for MS because they are announcing it this week? MS just announced it as well, and because of data steal, otherwise they would also announce it this week.

So why is Sony price based on MS and not the other way around? What is the difference to point it as Sony is the one worried about MS price? Shouldn't it be the opposite?

Sony is the one that can get better with higher prices because of Playstation's higher brand power, why would they be more worried than MS as they are the ones to win over them every single time?

If people want to suspect anything it should be the other way around... but that would also be unfair.

Both Sony and MS are aware of its competitor and wanting to make the best move, that's just business, but if anything Sony is the one that needs to worry the least.



BraLoD said:
PDF said:
The delay in price signals that they were originally high compared to the Xbox X. I bet we see a $499 PS5 and $399-$449 PS5 Digital.

I don't see the logic behind that.

Sony is waiting for MS because they are announcing it this week? MS just announced it as well, and because of data steal, otherwise they would also announce it this week.

So why is Sony price based on MS and not the other way around? What is the difference to point it as Sony is the one worried about MS price? Shouldn't it be the opposite?

Sony is the one that can get better with higher prices because of Playstation's higher brand power, why would they be more worried than MS as they are the ones to win over them every single time?

If people want to suspect anything it should be the other way around... but that would also be unfair.

Both Sony and MS are aware of its competitor and wanting to make the best move, that's just business, but if anything Sony is the one that needs to worry the least.

Yep I won`t say none were worried about the other pricing, but preferred to wait to have better chance of adjusting if possible. MS lost the chance with the leak and confirming (or perhaps planned that way because they were confident that even Sony best shot wouldn`t damage them), but I agree Sony is on a very safe position so claiming they are afraid or freaking out is just ludicrous.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994