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Forums - Sales Discussion - If Xbox Series S is 100$ cheaper than PS5 All-Digital, does Xbox have a legitimate chance of outselling PS5 this gen?

 

If Xbox Series S is 100$ cheaper than PS5, could Xbox Outsell PS5?

Yes, Xbox is the favorite to win 9 5.77%
 
Yes, it's possible 36 23.08%
 
Unlikely 60 38.46%
 
No chance 51 32.69%
 
Total:156
RJTM1991 said:
XBSS $299.
GamePass $9.99.
You've got a next-gen console with instant access to just about every new game. Xbox could very well surprise us all.

If that were the case, then sony should be shitting their pants.

That bolded part can't be bolded enough. You've got a next gen console with access to "every new Xbox Studios game, and a few old games here and there that makes their way to the service increasing said library. That's a very very very important disclaimer.

If, take for instance, MS were to announce that Cyberpunk would be available on game pass on day one, then nextgen is over before it begins. Thts what MS(and your statement) would want gamepass to be. And until that's what it is, it's not going to be surprising anyone, cause if it would have, it would already be doing that. There has been sub $250 Xbox with gamepass for the last 3 years you know? Gamepass launched in June 2017 IIRC.



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Naw, if price was a major contributing factor the Xbox One would have sold like hotcakes the entire second half of the generation since it was super duper cheap for most of that time compared to PS4.

I still feel and always will feel that it's the exclusive games that make people flock to a console. That and gimmicks they actually care about.



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PS5, Switch, XSX

PS4, PS3, PS2, PS1, WiiU, Wii, GCN, N64 SNES, XBO, 360

3DS, DS, GBA, Vita, PSP, Android

Intrinsic said:
RJTM1991 said:
XBSS $299.
GamePass $9.99.
You've got a next-gen console with instant access to just about every new game. Xbox could very well surprise us all.

If that were the case, then sony should be shitting their pants.

That bolded part can't be bolded enough. You've got a next gen console with access to "every new Xbox Studios game, and a few old games here and there that makes their way to the service increasing said library. That's a very very very important disclaimer.

If, take for instance, MS were to announce that Cyberpunk would be available on game pass on day one, then nextgen is over before it begins. Thts what MS(and your statement) would want gamepass to be. And until that's what it is, it's not going to be surprising anyone, cause if it would have, it would already be doing that. There has been sub $250 Xbox with gamepass for the last 3 years you know? Gamepass launched in June 2017 IIRC.

"A few old games"? Did you even look at the game list... I mean I agree that "just about every game" is super off, but your statement is pretty inaccurate too :)

To the OP, I don't think Microsoft has a chance to outsell Sony worldwide at all but it is also not really their goal, I think this is clear by now. 
And like GamePass, the Xbox Series S is a great value. So they are going to definitely increase their GamePass subscription count with that baby for sure.



Intrinsic said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

I believe you are oversimplifying.  The difficulty is not only in the technology.  Microsoft is making all of their first party games available to gamepass on day 1.  That means this is a new business model.  It's a new business model that very well may crash and burn.  Or it may prove to be very successful.  But if it does end up successful then that will give Microsoft a hell of a head start against Sony.  The first year of a console's life is it's most important.  A strong start during the first year means Microsoft will probably be strong for the whole generation.  Or a really weak start probably means they are going to have a rough time all generation.

No oversimplification here bro.

This thing is simple. What is game pass?

Its a subscription service that has a library of games that you can "download" to your console. 

That's it. Period. Done. 

How does sony emulate such a service?

Expand the already existing PS now, which also allows game downloads mind you (easy way) or just start a new service, hell call it PS Nation, and add games released on PS+ over the last 4 years (that's 96 games) and then go onto add all your first-party releases to the service and every upcoming release on day one and as many third party new releases as you can secure. 

Things like these aren't that hard at all. And when sony starts isn't what matters, what matters is what games will be on the service and as far as that is concerned, Sony has by far the better software library. But as I keep saying, sony WILL NOT DO this, because they don't need to do it. But if they see that somehow its doing wonders for MS, then it something they can easily adapt.

Personally, I think you are attaching to much significance to gamepass. It's a great idea, but I just feel that for games, its an unsustainable business model. 

Sony can even do a way that only games being over 2 year old would be in their sub instant library if the impact of GP isn't big that way they don't lose their sales as well.

EricHiggin said:
Intrinsic said:

$300 4TF watered-down version of the XSX vs $400 10.3TF version of the PS5 with the only difference being a disc drive?

I said this before this reveal, that the XSS would be in the $300 - $350 range and would likely be all digital, and even then, I said the only thing sony needs to worry about is not having a $399 console.

The XB1 has been at a lower price than the PS4 (albeit unofficially) all of this generation and that didn't stop the PS4 from outselling it. A $100 difference is not going to suddenly make someone that wants a PS5 to go and get an XSS instead. Especially when for that $100 more with the PS5AD, you get a larger SSD and almost 2.5x the power.

I also said this before, the last thing S would want, is a $399 10TF PS5 that falls in the middle of their $299 4TF offering and their 12TF $499 offering. The XSS existing at $299 actually makes a $399 appear to have the better value and a $499 XSX be too expensive.

If however the cheapest PS5 you can buy costs $449/$499 (which as I also said before would be dumb on sony's part if there is a $299 XSS on the market), then you can kiss all this goodbye and then in that case you would have a decent fight on your hands in some territories.

I remember, as well as those who thought a 1080p next gen console was crazy and was never going to happen, because it would be so stupid. Well it's not so crazy now, but we're still yet to determine how smart or stupid this decision was.

A $399 PS5 DE would cast a partial shadow over the XBSS, but if MS is smart, they will make it darn clear that the XBSX would be a waste unless you're gaming on a 4k screen. If they can push that messaging, clearly and loud, it will hurt PS5 DE sales, because why pay $100 more for that extra performance if you don't need 4k capabilities? The casuals won't take the games argument into account like the hardcore will, and XBSS would benefit from it's $100 advantage. Depending on the XBSX price, the XBSS may also be the preferred sale because it's costing MS less and is probably less of a sub, if not breaking even compared to cost and losses of XBSX.

Perhaps a stupid question, but has it been 100% confirmed by SNY that PS5 and PS5 DE are identical in every way, other than the optical drive? It's been explained what's in the PS5, and I've gone through a few articles quickly here, but none of them clearly state that both the PS5 and PS5 DE are exactly the same specs, minus the optical drive. Now based on their form factor and what's been talked about, I would assume they're the same, but do we really know?

PAOerfulone said:
Absolutely no chance at all.
It’ll close the gap and it’ll be a closer race than the PS4/XBO was, but that’s not saying much.

That race will likely finish as follows:
PS4 - 125 million
XBO - 50 million

And THIS race will probably look like this:
PS5 - 105 million
XSX - 70 million

There’s going to be a lot of early adapters, more than usual for a new console generation thanks to that $300 Series S, and then when those consumers eventually want to upgrade, they’ll be much more likely to go to Series X than PS5c since they’ll already have an account, Game Pass, and be well familiar with the Xbox Series ecosystem at that point.

Microsoft still doesn’t stand a chance, but that’s ok, because it would still be an improvement over last gen and they would be on they can build off that momentum so that one day, they might be able to compete.

If there's a $100 gap between PS5 DE and XBSS, I'd guess XB should be able to put themselves back in 360 sales territory, if they can bring the games. This was about the only choice they had anyway. If they tried to go toe to toe with PS5 and compete as directly as possible, very little would have changed from this gen.

The next move would be to eventually slim down the XBSX and make it all digital, while introducing a new top tier model (with an optical drive again). Get the all digital crowd to not only upgrade, but remain all digital.

So you want MS to nuke their own console saying PS5 is pointless make Series X even less worth since it will be even more expensive for lower increment.



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Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Intrinsic said:
EricHiggin said:

I remember, as well as those who thought a 1080p next gen console was crazy and was never going to happen, because it would be so stupid. Well it's not so crazy now, but we're still yet to determine how smart or stupid this decision was.

A $399 PS5 DE would cast a partial shadow over the XBSS, but if MS is smart, they will make it darn clear that the XBSX would be a waste unless you're gaming on a 4k screen. If they can push that messaging, clearly and loud, it will hurt PS5 DE sales, because why pay $100 more for that extra performance if you don't need 4k capabilities? The casuals won't take the games argument into account like the hardcore will, and XBSS would benefit from it's $100 advantage. Depending on the XBSX price, the XBSS may also be the preferred sale because it's costing MS less and is probably less of a sub, if not breaking even compared to cost and losses of XBSX.

Perhaps a stupid question, but has it been 100% confirmed by SNY that PS5 and PS5 DE are identical in every way, other than the optical drive? It's been explained what's in the PS5, and I've gone through a few articles quickly here, but none of them clearly state that both the PS5 and PS5 DE are exactly the same specs, minus the optical drive. Now based on their form factor and what's been talked about, I would assume they're the same, but do we really know?

Exactly, what MS needs to do with XBSS is basically make as clear a distinction between it and the XBSX as possible. Bt they are already failing at this, their official tweet IIRC on the XBSS still ven mentions 1440p upscaling to 4K. This means even there they are still pushing that whole power is relevant argument.

But if they did what you said, then it would be a case of, well I don't have a 4KTV or need one so I will just get an XBSS instead of spending an extra $100 for 4K that I do not need. But if they did that, then they are also making their XBSX seem even less relevant. I mean,if a $299 box can play the exact same games ad everything is the same outside resolution, why do i need to spend $200 for 4K? When I can spend $100 more for 4Kon the PS5?

And yes, its been officially confirmed that the only difference between the two is the disc drive.

Eric: The idea here is, there’s a second [PS5] that represents the growth of the digital business over the years…. And a lot of consumers have shifted the way they interact with our products. Part of my job, and my team’s, is to talk to consumers all the time, understand what they like and what they want. And there’s a segment of consumers that just want to go digital.

So this is the answer to that need. It’s a discless version [of PS5]. It’s important to note that, it’s essentially the same product. You’re not talking about any change to features, or any change to power. It’s the same product, with slight cosmetic differences, and no disc drive. So it’s all digital.

I don't remember saying that... lol. That clears that up for good though. Thx.

I agree on the messaging and narrative MS has been putting out there. It's all over the map. It's literally them saying everything possible is on offer, and it's all the best in it's own way. It's all super important, unless that's not important to you, then it's not. lol. 

The problem is they haven't been clear that's the message. One day it's power is all that matters, the next it's affordability and size. MS marketing has had a few bright spots, but overall is still horrible.

XBSS is "next gen performance"? So... you mean to say XB1X was basically next gen, especially based on it's marketing? Even though you don't believe in gens anymore?

Question is does MS really care about the power crown or is that just to keep a portion of their user base happy? If they are losing less money on XBSS, and can sell a boat load of them anyway, then why not? As for the XBSX power narrative up until now, odds are MS probably felt that if they started out with XBSS, they would lose a bunch of the hardcore hardware fans to PS5 once it revealed. Showing up after with XBSX might seem like an afterthought or MS scrambling and damage controlling, which really wouldn't look good. I think they played it safe, though it still is a mess.

I do agree with you though, that if immediately after PS5 revealed, XBSX was revealed and MS rubbed it in SNY's face, it could have been a big win for them. Which makes me wonder, how much did MS really know about PS5. If they were so certain they would end up more powerful, why not show them up and gain some serious momentum? Perhaps MS thought if they could get SNY thinking they were only going for the performance crown, that SNY wouldn't worry as much about affordability, which potentially leaves the door wide open for XBSS?

Even with PS5 DE at $399, I'm thinking XBSS is going to crush XBSX in sales.



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Really dont think so. I know I might sound crazzy, but I will say it again, this series s is planed obselence. By same time next year there will be no need for such a low tier device. Entry level laptops by next year will be close in performance to a series s. we are talking $500-$600 with just an APU, when DDR5 and PCIE4 get into laptops. Not to mention xcloud will be the lowest entry price even still. and that will be in your phone for just a little bit less performance. This is a really bad idea.



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Intrinsic said:
RJTM1991 said:
XBSS $299.
GamePass $9.99.
You've got a next-gen console with instant access to just about every new game. Xbox could very well surprise us all.

If that were the case, then sony should be shitting their pants.

That bolded part can't be bolded enough. You've got a next gen console with access to "every new Xbox Studios game, and a few old games here and there that makes their way to the service increasing said library. That's a very very very important disclaimer.

If, take for instance, MS were to announce that Cyberpunk would be available on game pass on day one, then nextgen is over before it begins. Thts what MS(and your statement) would want gamepass to be. And until that's what it is, it's not going to be surprising anyone, cause if it would have, it would already be doing that. There has been sub $250 Xbox with gamepass for the last 3 years you know? Gamepass launched in June 2017 IIRC.

Yes, the Xbox One. No point in buying an XB1 when you've got a Playstation 4. This though? Is a new console. Giving people a huge backlog and value at $9.99? Again, Xbox could prove us all wrong.



DonFerrari said:
EricHiggin said:

If there's a $100 gap between PS5 DE and XBSS, I'd guess XB should be able to put themselves back in 360 sales territory, if they can bring the games. This was about the only choice they had anyway. If they tried to go toe to toe with PS5 and compete as directly as possible, very little would have changed from this gen.

The next move would be to eventually slim down the XBSX and make it all digital, while introducing a new top tier model (with an optical drive again). Get the all digital crowd to not only upgrade, but remain all digital.

So you want MS to nuke their own console saying PS5 is pointless make Series X even less worth since it will be even more expensive for lower increment.

No, not pointless. MS just needs to make it clear, that XBSX, and anything near it's performance range, is an extremely useful product when used for what's it's made for, 4k, but is mostly overkill otherwise.

That way, anyone who doesn't or won't have 4k for some time, may very well just save the money and buy an XBSS, since it's the only 1080p option if they want a next gen capable console. That way MS saves money by selling the cheaper console, get's them into the XB ecosystem, Game Pass or whatever, and can later up sell them on an XBSX (slim/all digital).

The only thing MS has to worry about then, is anyone who won't care about next gen and will just buy a PS4 or Pro instead to save even more money. They could hope they will buy an XB1S, but based on it's sales as of late, that's not very many people.



RJTM1991 said:
Intrinsic said:

If that were the case, then sony should be shitting their pants.

That bolded part can't be bolded enough. You've got a next gen console with access to "every new Xbox Studios game, and a few old games here and there that makes their way to the service increasing said library. That's a very very very important disclaimer.

If, take for instance, MS were to announce that Cyberpunk would be available on game pass on day one, then nextgen is over before it begins. Thts what MS(and your statement) would want gamepass to be. And until that's what it is, it's not going to be surprising anyone, cause if it would have, it would already be doing that. There has been sub $250 Xbox with gamepass for the last 3 years you know? Gamepass launched in June 2017 IIRC.

Yes, the Xbox One. No point in buying an XB1 when you've got a Playstation 4. This though? Is a new console. Giving people a huge backlog and value at $9.99? Again, Xbox could prove us all wrong.

The bigger point would be to look at the long game. If XBSS is $299 now, imagine in 3 years time. $199 next gen gaming?...

Even if Game Pass isn't seen as a major draw in general, consumers will be willing to give it a try at these prices. The more who try, the better chance at the user base growing overall.

XBSS can do well based on it's price and cheap offerings like Game Pass alone. XBSS can do a lot more if MS get's their first party in order.



Xbox Series S only 100$ cheaper than PS5 All-Digital?
I'm considering the rumor of 4TF and 3.8 clock CPU true as i speak... that said, PS5 DE crush it on "value front"! PS5 DE have such gigantic power advantage that saving $100 feels like a very bad deal.
PS5 DE takes the win for sure at $399