Exactly. At launch in 2013. in 2014, the prices were not the same since Xbox quickly backpedaled on the forced Kinect inclusion. You're not arguing against the point you think you are. 

You definetly have quantity part of the equation, but quality is not the same for everyone. Like You yourself have admited not everything has 100% penetration. I already used me as an example of why a person like me sees no value in gamepass. I would rather use that $180 a year in 3 games I know im going to like. So you saying now 200 games still means nothing for me if I still have no interest in any of them. 

You really cant take bias out of it wich is the thing. There are people that I know whos only reason to own a console is fifa. I kid you not but they only play fifa all year round. for them as well this means absolutly zero even with EA play, because it only adds the fifa from the previous year and a super fan will buy the latest fifa. Because thats the issue with yearly titles, as soon as the new version is out, the old one just dies on the spot. That for me is the main issue with gamepass. for me if they have big games that I would like, I probably already played it. I work and have family comitmets and other shit, I dont have time to play indy or other smaller games so for me only the big hitters matter. And im willing to bet that gaming demographic has shifted to where the main console gamers are in their 20's and 30's. So they are more likely to be in my situation. They would also be working so they have more tolerance of what value is considered. 

So far the only garanty market gamepass has in my opinion is children. And I will say that if that is the  case that will put a big quation mark on the type of games that MS will push with that demographic. 

I wouldn't get too involved with him. He's not a bad person but like 99% of his posts are him bending over backwards to sell people on Xbox and GamePass. He's allowed to have his opinions and preferences, but man he pushes them super duper hard. 

The reality of the situation is that if GamePass was a selling point for Xbox, or price, or backwards compatibility, the Xbox One would have sold a lot better. That's just the fact of the matter. These are all good things, to be sure, but it's games that sell consoles. Gamepass is a good deal...but not for people who already own games. I have like 300 Gen 8 games between PS4, Switch, and Xbox One (Many are duplicates across generations and digital/physical), with very few I want but don't have. GamePass would MAYBE be worth it if I was just getting into gaming now, but that's not the case. People still like owning games, they still like physical copies, and they still like collecting. 

If not for my own desire to collect physical games, I'd actually consider PS5's discless version. I never thought I'd say that, but since I have so many digital copies and PS+ games...I'm probably ONLY going to use PS5 discs in the system and migrate my PS4 digital games over. 

I personally think the Discless PS5 is a better value than the Series S, and I don't even know the price of the PS5 yet! Why? IT still has all the speed and power that makes PS5 games stand out despite not having the raw power of the XSX. 

Well I dont have a backlog like you, like I said to him, theres no way I could play that unless I quit my job. But yea the games I do have I do want to migrate them over to the ps5 so Im still invested into the ecosystem. 

I get what your saying it and it sounds correct. I cant see myself switching over, nor do I see anyone who mainly gamed on one 8th gen console due to their investment on either console. And gamepass also seems more atractive to people who havent gamed at all in at least the last 2 years. What I do see possible is people being atracted to the other console and wanting both. But if that is the case, then that hurts xbox the most as current xbox owners where not given a reason to upgrade yet as their console is still playing all games for at least 2021. So get a ps5 and keep your current xbox. While theres still games you need an ps5 to play.

Ill never go digital only untill there is no other option. Not because I collect or nostalgia or any of that, I just dont trust these big companies. they could cancel a server, they could limit your acces, drm and so much bullshit I just wont do it. I wont even play always online games, even tho my internet is very good.

I know about sales, he is always respectfull and as far as I can tell hes not baiting or being purpously dishonest. I know he bats hard for MS but he is resonable while being a fan, but who amongs us is perfect. I know I myself im stuck in my ways and probably wont see the world how he see's it. The are other xbox fans who I do avoid that are very toxic and cant even start a reply wiithout an insult. Ive lerned my leson from thouse others. 

If it is only 100 difference, it wont matter, if it is 200, It will.

Perhaps to you it is like that... for me value really depends on the content, if most of those 200 (isn't 100?) aren't of my liking then it is worthless at any price point. That is why I said you confused and is still confusing price with value.

You are doing simple math "180 per year/100 games = 1.8 USD per game", even if you won't play 100 games a year even if you liked all those games. That is determining price not value.

Why do you think Nintendo can keep their games at 60 USD for almost the whole gen while Fifa go half price like 2 months after release and 1/5 a year after release? It is because their userbase see the value of a Nintendo game being 60USD irrelevant of the age while Fifa userbase don't. So shoving "Gamepass is better value because it have 30x more games for the same price" over other throats simply isn't true. When only 20% of X1 userbase thought there was value in signing up even with those promotional prices you can tell the service isn't as valuable to everyone as it is for you. Price is the same for all, value isn't.

Live Gold also gives you 4 free games per month on top of GP but I see your point. It’s just hard to see how all it offers just doesn’t appeal to someone, more often then not if you can find at least a few-several games to play every year, depending on how new they are you allready made the sub worth while. 

And sure you prefer PS exclusives. Nothing wrong with that. That’s not value paying full price. That’s standard industry practice paying full price to play a game. Value is getting more for the money you pay. So when you get more things bundled at no extra charge, that’s the very definition as opposed to doing what gamers have been doing for decades. 

Like you said it’s unfortunate it’s climbing against the popular trend with PlayStation being the dominant brand for several years. Doesn’t matter how good a service is sometimes when the competition has the mindshare. 

I counted just for you Don, you good people. 249 games as of this post on GP. EA Play adding 60 something games when it merges. You don’t have to play them all, nor can you. You play the games you want to play. And given the high number, the odds of finding what you like dramatically improve. 

I’m not going to give you all the AAA games and the 80+ Metacritic scores of every game on GP. Quality is implied, you can’t have a service grow if everything is shovelware. And leave Nintendo out of this, their pricing of games years later is downright criminal lol. 

It’s a new thing, gaming is not used to a sub model for games. But I tell you once your in it changes your whole perspective. It’s very hard to make a argument that nothing it offers will appeal to people. I just don’t see paying full price even for a game you want as value, as it’s just standard procedure. Value is getting a game you want for cheaper then full price. 

For what I’ve played in the last 2 years, I would have spent several hundreds more had I played the multiplats alone if I had a PlayStation. Sorry I sound like a walking ad lol, but as an adult with a mortgage and family it’s a nice thing to play what you want and save your money for other things at the same time.

Otherwise, I’m sure you can think of many situations where a superior product doesn’t necessarily mean they are the market leader. I’ll say it: Sony has a longer and richer history in the industry. They are consistent, they have the peoples trust and confidence on their side. They have all the mindshare compared to Xbox. Xbox has to be objectively better going forward to just be considered as an option compared to PlayStation. Doesn’t matter how good Xbox does or what they offer: it’s not PlayStation if that’s what core gamers today are used to. 

But ultimately people like PS for their 1st party and that’s something Xbox can’t replicate so end of day I recognize that as well. 

That's great for you and all, but GamePass doesn't exist in a vacuum. If it did, yeah it'd be a great deal. However, there are a tonne of external factors that make it so that, while the deal is good, it's not as appealing as you think to most people. As I said, people still like hard copies. They already have a bunch of games on the gamepass. They like to chose what games they have. Not all games will appeal to all people. You still have to buy an Xbox for it or get a higher-end PC. 

The point is, on paper Gamepass is amazing! IT's the netflix of games! PRoblem is, we still live in a world where games could come or go from the service, people still care about ownership of their games, and most people who could afford GamePass already have most or all of the games they want. 

I personally seriously considered getting gamepass, but then I remembered I hate gaming subscription models, I wouldn't get anything out of it since I tend to not really care about Xbox exclusives, and the only reason I was considering it was to try what amounted to a demo for Sea of Thieves so I could play with my brother. Just like my Xbox One, I'd get it, and it'd sit in the corner not getting any use for years on end. IT'd just be a drain on my funds. So yeah, there's more to it than just 'pay x dollars per month, get hundreds of free games!', which is why it's not pushing consoles as well as it seems like it would on paper. 

That's why, as much as the Series S sounds like a good mid-gen jump from the 8th, I just don't think it will matter. In the end, exclusives clearly matter and it seems Microsoft is doing everything in their power to convince the world otherwise.