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Forums - Sales Discussion - Which next gen full power console will be cheaper?

 

Which next gen full power console will be cheapest?

PS5 without disc drive 39 63.93%
 
PS5 2 3.28%
 
Xbox Series X 20 32.79%
 
Total:61
Baddman said:
This poll and question seems kind of pointless to put it kindly. One would have to be a moron to not realize the disc-less ps5 will be cheaper than the Xbox series x and regular ps5...I truly do not understand the reason for asking this question and including the disc-less ps5..actually I think know the reason but that's another discussion

40% of the voters are morons confirmed.

According to you that is...



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Intrinsic said:
Baddman said:
This poll and question seems kind of pointless to put it kindly. One would have to be a moron to not realize the disc-less ps5 will be cheaper than the Xbox series x and regular ps5...I truly do not understand the reason for asking this question and including the disc-less ps5..actually I think know the reason but that's another discussion

40% of the voters are morons confirmed.

According to you that is...

I could only guess the xbox users voted series x out of spite due to the stupidity of the poll including what Sony is positioning to be the cheaper alternative to the ps5



Baddman said:
Intrinsic said:

40% of the voters are morons confirmed.

According to you that is...

I could only guess the xbox users voted series x out of spite due to the stupidity of the poll including what Sony is positioning to be the cheaper alternative to the ps5

For all our sakes, I hope you are right.



Intrinsic said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:
PS5's internals should be pretty damn expensive going by their specs, and I'm not sure if dropping the disc drive will be enough to close the gap to Microsoft's more conventional XSX.

They both have 16GB of GDDR6, MS has 10 modules (6x16Gb + 4x8Gb), The PS5 has 8 x 16Gb chips. All chips on platforms are 14Gbs.

They XSX has (or is most likely to have) a bigger APU (360mm2) compared to the PS5s smaller APU (rumored 320mm2). The APU is the single most expensive component in the system. 

They are both using an SSD, the PS5 uses 12 (one for each channel) 64GB NAND flash chips vs the XSX 4/8 channel layout. Which also probably uses fewer nand flash chips but of larger capacity.

So if you are suggesting that the PS5 hardware should be more expensive,I am not seeing how. There isn't anything vastly unconventional about the PS5s actual hardware. They just went abt things differently.

Eg. NVMe SSDs typically have 4 channels (sub 2GB/s drives) or 8 channels (3.5GB/s drives), then on servers, you have SSDs with 12 or 16 channels. The PS5 is just using a 12 channel layout, and that s nothing more than a few more traces on the PCB. 

Those nand memory chips in the PS4 are so much faster that they need much more expensive chips to reach those speeds, and there are more of them. It's probable that PS5 will need MLC or even SLC chips while the XSX can do with the much cheaper TLC chips. Add to this the way it has been integrated into the system; there's much more to this than just installing faster chips. The way it's integrated sounded like it would need PCBs with more layers, and those quickly add up in price.

The APU was the biggest cost in times of hard drives, but that's not always true with an SSD. Just compare the price of 1TB HDD vs 1TB SSD. You can get a WD Blue for about 35€, but an NVMe SSD of that size will cost you at least around 100€, and more like 150€ minimum if you want something closer to the touted speeds.

So yeah, those Nands and how they are integrated into the PS5 can make a whole lot of difference to the price.



Well the Full Power console is the XSX...so that.



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Baddman said:
This poll and question seems kind of pointless to put it kindly. One would have to be a moron to not realize the disc-less ps5 will be cheaper than the Xbox series x and regular ps5...I truly do not understand the reason for asking this question and including the disc-less ps5..actually I think know the reason but that's another discussion

The reason is that there is a good number of people that believe Series X will be cheaper, you can see it in this and other threads. So I created the thread and pool to see how many agreed with that notion. Particularly I don't think MS will want to get this much of a loss on each console to be cheaper than discless PS5. But that announcement from MS saying they won't be beat in power or price is still used by many.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

DonFerrari said:
Baddman said:
This poll and question seems kind of pointless to put it kindly. One would have to be a moron to not realize the disc-less ps5 will be cheaper than the Xbox series x and regular ps5...I truly do not understand the reason for asking this question and including the disc-less ps5..actually I think know the reason but that's another discussion

The reason is that there is a good number of people that believe Series X will be cheaper, you can see it in this and other threads. So I created the thread and pool to see how many agreed with that notion. Particularly I don't think MS will want to get this much of a loss on each console to be cheaper than discless PS5. But that announcement from MS saying they won't be beat in power or price is still used by many.

But why include both the PS5 and diskless PS5?

It makes no sense because one of them is already the wrong answer.  🤣



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

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Shiken said:
DonFerrari said:

The reason is that there is a good number of people that believe Series X will be cheaper, you can see it in this and other threads. So I created the thread and pool to see how many agreed with that notion. Particularly I don't think MS will want to get this much of a loss on each console to be cheaper than discless PS5. But that announcement from MS saying they won't be beat in power or price is still used by many.

But why include both the PS5 and diskless PS5?

It makes no sense because one of them is already the wrong answer.  🤣

Well there are some that believe PS5 with and without disc will be the same price. But yes 2 answers are wrong=p



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Bofferbrauer2 said:

Those nand memory chips in the PS4 are so much faster that they need much more expensive chips to reach those speeds, and there are more of them. It's probable that PS5 will need MLC or even SLC chips while the XSX can do with the much cheaper TLC chips. Add to this the way it has been integrated into the system; there's much more to this than just installing faster chips. The way it's integrated sounded like it would need PCBs with more layers, and those quickly add up in price.

The APU was the biggest cost in times of hard drives, but that's not always true with an SSD. Just compare the price of 1TB HDD vs 1TB SSD. You can get a WD Blue for about 35€, but an NVMe SSD of that size will cost you at least around 100€, and more like 150€ minimum if you want something closer to the touted speeds.

So yeah, those Nands and how they are integrated into the PS5 can make a whole lot of difference to the price.

You are wrong on all counts.... :)

  1. PS5 is using 12 NAND chips connected to 12 channels. Each channel pushes 450MB/s. XSX uses 4 or 8 channels with 4 or 8 NAND chips respectively. Each pushing 600MB/s or 300MB/s respectively. Its not the NAND chips that make them fast, its the number of channels they are linked to or the number of chips they are using. This doesn't make the PCB more complex either, just means you are printing more pathways for the channels. This is different from printing more layers. Kinda like RAM

    Also, both companies are using DRAM-less flash controllers, with the PS5 building in SRAM into their APU for the SSD to bypass having to use DRAM and the XSX using some of its system RAM instead. So this doesn't make their SSD more expensive, it does make their APU bigger than it would have otherwise been though and in turn more expensive. 

  2. With regards to the cost.. it just doesn't work that way.

    Let's start with the cost of a PS4 HDD in 2013, it cost them $37. Now even if sony were just using off the shelf SSD in their PS5, they would be spending no more than $50 for each one. But they aren't, all sony is doing is buying generic NAND flash chips and a 12 lane flash controller and building the SSD themselves. Basically, they are building an SSD and slapping an APU onto the same PCB. If $50 would have given them NAND flash chips, a DRAM and a flash controller, how much do you think just the nand chips and the controller would cost?

    But where this gets even more interesting... PS5 has a rumored BOMof $450. That's $70 more than the $380 PS4. We aren't just saying PS5 SSD is more expensive so we are adding $40 to the overall BOM because there was an HDD in the BOM of the PS4, so all we are doing is adding $3 to the $37 for the PS4 HDD back n 2013 and you have the $40 that the NAND flash chi and the flash controller is going to cost sony in 2020.

    Now do the same for everything else, ad some to the APU, some to the RAM...etc.

As I said, there is nothing special about the components being used in these machines, whats is special is the implementation or better put, how the systems are engineered. And its not engineering that is coming at a cost, its engineering that is making things cheaper than they otherwise would have been. And something that can only be accomplished in consoles.



The regular ps5 and xsx will be the same price. The xsx is more expensive but they will match Sony at whatever they anounce. There's no need for them to eat a massive loss as the already have the power narrative so being the same price is a plus.

Which means Sony should just anounce already and set the new standard for price. Such could be $450.



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