Forums - Gaming Discussion - The console war is over

Alara317 said:
sales2099 said:

That’s fair. Just habit I guess. Seen too many anti GP opinions as of late. Gears 17? Was that a sequel jab? There’s tons of Ratchet and Clank games, even God of War is the fifth entry. 

Dude, nobody's anti-Gamepass. The seemingly unanimous agreement on the forum and elsewhere is that Gamepass is an outstandingly good deal, but the lack of Xbox Exclusives makes it not worth it to get an Xbox. Gamepass is the thing Microsoft is doing very well! 

Thank you for that nice reply. Well maybe not here. I also check Twitter, where I’m not joking that seems to be the “frontlines” of the console war. It’s mostly Goopys opinion; more or less fear mongering that Game Pass is the “death” of AAA games. Quite the negative prophecy. Also that it’s not sustainable and will be dropped because it’s so value packed. Then you got staunch“I don’t rent games I only buy” but usually said in a disingenuous way.  

The contrary is that AAA like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 show no evidence of being lesser then their predecessors. Also future AAA games like SoD3, Fable, Avowed, HB2. Even Halo for its looks is the most ambitious campaign in franchise history and the MP should be as feature packed as ever. And finally GP doesn’t restrict you from buying games.

It’s the usual. Back and forth, my side is better then yours. Your pros are crap my pros matter more. That’s why I like it here, it’s more civilized. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Console wars have usually been very dumb, but the corporations don't care as much anymore. It's really just "consumers" and "gamers" who still treat them like they exist.
The fourth generation was basically the first console war. I guess you could argue they happened in the first three generations if you want. But Atari smoked everyone in the second gen, and Nintendo really smoked the competition in the third gen. Sega and Nintendo very much had a console war. Genesis/Mega Drive beat Super Famicom/SNES to the market by two years and mocked the Famicom/NES with its outdated hardware.
Seventh generation saw Sony saying things like "the next generation doesn't start until we say it does."
Console wars don't make sense anymore. Nintendo has been doing its own thing for a while, and is now unopposed in the handheld market. Xbox is focusing far more on subscriptions and cloud-based gaming than hardware as the future. PlayStation is really the only one that continues on the steady path, but that makes sense with their console domination.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

PS4: 130 mil (was 100 million) Xbox One: 55 mil (was 50 mil) Switch: 110 million (was 73, then 96 million)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

sales2099 said:
Alara317 said:

Dude, nobody's anti-Gamepass. The seemingly unanimous agreement on the forum and elsewhere is that Gamepass is an outstandingly good deal, but the lack of Xbox Exclusives makes it not worth it to get an Xbox. Gamepass is the thing Microsoft is doing very well! 

Thank you for that nice reply. Well maybe not here. I also check Twitter, where I’m not joking that seems to be the “frontlines” of the console war. It’s mostly Goopys opinion; more or less fear mongering that Game Pass is the “death” of AAA games. Quite the negative prophecy. Also that it’s not sustainable and will be dropped because it’s so value packed. Then you got staunch“I don’t rent games I only buy” but usually said in a disingenuous way.  

The contrary is that AAA like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 show no evidence of being lesser then their predecessors. Also future AAA games like SoD3, Fable, Avowed, HB2. Even Halo for its looks is the most ambitious campaign in franchise history and the MP should be as feature packed as ever. And finally GP doesn’t restrict you from buying games.

It’s the usual. Back and forth, my side is better then yours. Your pros are crap my pros matter more. That’s why I like it here, it’s more civilized. 

That's just it, I'm not trying to be nice or mean or cruel or callous or compassionate. I'm just trying to explain in most every post of mine why things are the way they are and why some people seem to perceive things differently. I'm not trying to 'let you down easily' or anything, I just go by what I feel, what I observe, and what I think is the most logical explanation. My post up there was very simple: Gamepass is a great deal, but it doesn't seem to be enough to get people to buy an Xbox. It's the most delicious icing on a pretty tiny little mediocre cake.

If the Xbox brand had more games, then Gamepass would be outstanding; however, without that initial buy-in incentive, gamers don't get the most benefit out of the service. Same with Backwards compatibility, that sort of shit is AWESOME and I wish Sony was doing it better, but the reality is that people don't buy new consoles for old games and it seems a stunningly large amount of people still prefer to buy or own their games. Goopy has some points, even if he's a little off from time to time. 

In order to get the most out of Gamepass and Backwards compatibility and more powerful hardware (The three things Xbox does best), you need those exclusive games. Without that incentive as the core driving force behind the console, those other sweet-assed features are delicious toppings on a lacklustre meal. 

That's why I keep saying none of that matters. That's why I keep saying Xbox has no games. That's why I personally feel Microsoft would be better going third party. Nintendo and Sony both have huge lineups of legacy franchises and new IPs that sell well, are beloved, and run the gamut from every genre and age group, but Microsoft is very pointedly an 'American' system, focused on shooters and racers. They do those games fairly well (Forza is the best racing game franchise out there; Halo, though not my thing, is probably the most iconic shooter of all time, etc), but it's basically all they do. Targetting a niche demographic is fine when you're not a console manufacturer, but Microsoft needs to broaden its horizons and try new things. Not just make promises, but actually follow through. 

That's also why I'd be super keen on the idea of GamePass on PS5 (or if I bite the bullet and upgrade, PC, since it almost certainly won't ever come to PS5): Microsoft has a few good games and the deal is outstanding, it's just not enough to make me want an Xbox. 

As for twitter and stuff...well, you're on the internet. IT doesn't matter what side of any debate you're on you're likely to find the most vile and hateful rhetoric. 



sales2099 said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

The most common way for a war to end is when one side accepts defeat.  This is Microsoft accepting defeat.

Would you say Nintendo accepted defeat since the Wii? Doesn’t seem to be bothering them much. Unlike Nintendo that stopped trying to compete in traditional hardware MS is doing both. Traditional hardware/games but also services that just take the industry in a new direction. 

Nintendo is very much competing and they have a 3.5 year head start on Generation 9.  The console war is only over for Microsoft.  When they say "The console war is over" they mean "for us".



COKTOE said:
Azzanation said:

I daubt it, fanboys will always try to make platforms compete regardless.

I remember the days i was in heated endless debates and getting downvoted about claiming MSs direction and thier focus in the console market.. goes to show that it doesnt matter how right you are, people wont change their point of views.


Unless you were, inexplicably, making a different argument that was running parallel to the one I remember, vividly, referencing "how right you were", and others people's inability to change their point of view makes me want to challenge you to a fistfight.

Your take: You were repeatedly making a blanket, absolute statement, saying "console sales don't matter". Which is still incorrect now, even when applied only to Microsoft, the company detaching itself the most from the traditional console sales model. When applied to Nintendo and PS, who's combined market share represents much more of the console market than that of Xbox, that argument gets even worse. Many, if not all, of the finer points as to why this point of view was incorrect have already been covered.

So, "console sales don't matter": That was essentially the totality of your stance. You weren't right then. You're merely less wrong now.

I haven't looked at it, but I have a direct link back to one specific instance of what I'm referencing here, because it was my most recent ban.

My blanket statement? I never said console sales were useless, i said it is not the "Be all, End all." Some picked up on it at the start of this generation and some clearly didn't. The entire OG launch of the X1 was all about DRM, Power of the Cloud, Services etc before the 180 from horrible feedback.. what do you think is XCloud, GamePass and the new services for gen are? they sound so familiar.

If you believe i am wrong than why on earth would MS focus on bringing their entire library over to PC if console sales means so much to them? Why do you think MS created GamePass if Retail sales were so important? I couldn't be any more right with what i am saying. Which proves another point of mine, which you just replied too,

"I daubt it, fanboys will always try to make platforms compete regardless."

This right here is people not accepting this approach and refuse to believe it, because they want a console war and they will make these monkeys fight regardless.

Its also very hard to debate without an actual link or sentence to what you are claiming in my previous posts. All i remember was saying that Xbox is all about the software and eco-system, they would rather sell more software and subs than sell consoles. Phil practically admitted to exactly what i have been saying years ago and now more and more people are even claiming and accepting that Xbox is all about the eco-system than head on head hardware sales.

This entire gen was Xbox building upon its future and trying to implement ideas. Its like rebuilding a football team, sometimes you have to start from scratch again by trading and sacking players and coaches (Closing Studios) Recruiting new blood (Opening new Studios) Building a new game plan (New Services) and opening the door for trade (Multi-platform games). Sometimes you are going to lose some matches to get back to the top, even completely suck at times however the long term goal is success and that's how it was the moment the OG XB1 was announced, it didn't work straight away so the rebuilding stage begun and now we have the next Series Xbox which is all the XB1 should have been.

Ask yourself, is MS trying to make you buy a Series X? or are they trying to get you into their eco-system? I can tell you its not the Series X and even they admitted that.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 29 July 2020

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Console war may be over (debatable), but the war for our entertainment bucks ain't over. The entertainment battlefield is wider and deeper than it's ever been. Which is why you probably won't see GP on things like PS5 or Switch unless they SONY or Nintendo waive fees.

The path forward for these companies seems easy to see. SONY sells 100m+ Playstation consoles a gen and sells lots of 1st and 3rd party games. Nintendo sells 100m+ handhelds and hybrids and sells shit tons of 1st party games and quite a few 3rd party games. Microsoft sells subscriptions and games on Everything Else, including their own console, even if said console is in the 40-50m sell range.

Microsoft is betting on the cloud and they are doing gang busters doing it. Just because they rank 3rd on consoles consistently doesn't mean they won't make big bucks.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
sales2099 said:

Would you say Nintendo accepted defeat since the Wii? Doesn’t seem to be bothering them much. Unlike Nintendo that stopped trying to compete in traditional hardware MS is doing both. Traditional hardware/games but also services that just take the industry in a new direction. 

Nintendo is very much competing and they have a 3.5 year head start on Generation 9.  The console war is only over for Microsoft.  When they say "The console war is over" they mean "for us".

Hmm personally I think Switch is gen 8 as a mid gen substitute for the WiiU. But I mean they aren’t competing for specs and top 3rd party games like Sony and MS are now. They just doing their own thing. MS is doing that too but is still very much competing in the traditional sense as well. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Alara317 said:
sales2099 said:

Thank you for that nice reply. Well maybe not here. I also check Twitter, where I’m not joking that seems to be the “frontlines” of the console war. It’s mostly Goopys opinion; more or less fear mongering that Game Pass is the “death” of AAA games. Quite the negative prophecy. Also that it’s not sustainable and will be dropped because it’s so value packed. Then you got staunch“I don’t rent games I only buy” but usually said in a disingenuous way.  

The contrary is that AAA like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 show no evidence of being lesser then their predecessors. Also future AAA games like SoD3, Fable, Avowed, HB2. Even Halo for its looks is the most ambitious campaign in franchise history and the MP should be as feature packed as ever. And finally GP doesn’t restrict you from buying games.

It’s the usual. Back and forth, my side is better then yours. Your pros are crap my pros matter more. That’s why I like it here, it’s more civilized. 

That's just it, I'm not trying to be nice or mean or cruel or callous or compassionate. I'm just trying to explain in most every post of mine why things are the way they are and why some people seem to perceive things differently. I'm not trying to 'let you down easily' or anything, I just go by what I feel, what I observe, and what I think is the most logical explanation. My post up there was very simple: Gamepass is a great deal, but it doesn't seem to be enough to get people to buy an Xbox. It's the most delicious icing on a pretty tiny little mediocre cake.

If the Xbox brand had more games, then Gamepass would be outstanding; however, without that initial buy-in incentive, gamers don't get the most benefit out of the service. Same with Backwards compatibility, that sort of shit is AWESOME and I wish Sony was doing it better, but the reality is that people don't buy new consoles for old games and it seems a stunningly large amount of people still prefer to buy or own their games. Goopy has some points, even if he's a little off from time to time. 

In order to get the most out of Gamepass and Backwards compatibility and more powerful hardware (The three things Xbox does best), you need those exclusive games. Without that incentive as the core driving force behind the console, those other sweet-assed features are delicious toppings on a lacklustre meal. 

That's why I keep saying none of that matters. That's why I keep saying Xbox has no games. That's why I personally feel Microsoft would be better going third party. Nintendo and Sony both have huge lineups of legacy franchises and new IPs that sell well, are beloved, and run the gamut from every genre and age group, but Microsoft is very pointedly an 'American' system, focused on shooters and racers. They do those games fairly well (Forza is the best racing game franchise out there; Halo, though not my thing, is probably the most iconic shooter of all time, etc), but it's basically all they do. Targetting a niche demographic is fine when you're not a console manufacturer, but Microsoft needs to broaden its horizons and try new things. Not just make promises, but actually follow through. 

That's also why I'd be super keen on the idea of GamePass on PS5 (or if I bite the bullet and upgrade, PC, since it almost certainly won't ever come to PS5): Microsoft has a few good games and the deal is outstanding, it's just not enough to make me want an Xbox. 

As for twitter and stuff...well, you're on the internet. IT doesn't matter what side of any debate you're on you're likely to find the most vile and hateful rhetoric. 

That’s all fair to say. That said I think GP is worth it even if you don’t count 1st party. Plenty of 3rd party gems are on it. Even ones you’d think everybody has played were up in the charts like RDR2, GTA5, Witcher 3. Gems for me included Kingdom Come, Metro Trilogy, Wolfenstein 1/2, Rage 2, LOTR Mordor/Shadow of War, Outer Worlds. 

The day 1 exclusive perk is the icing on the cake imo. Saving money on some of the best 3rd party content in the generation (provided you are willing to wait a year after they release) is reason alone to get Xbox. From a purely financial savings point of view. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 29 July 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

I kinda get the argument that each of the companies can "win" in their own ways an keep going. After all, we've had this trio (Sony, Nintendo, MS) for 3 generations already. However, I argue that the war to be the N1, best-selling console is still on. You could argue it doesn't matter as much as long as each company makes money but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



sales2099 said:
Alara317 said:

That's just it, I'm not trying to be nice or mean or cruel or callous or compassionate. I'm just trying to explain in most every post of mine why things are the way they are and why some people seem to perceive things differently. I'm not trying to 'let you down easily' or anything, I just go by what I feel, what I observe, and what I think is the most logical explanation. My post up there was very simple: Gamepass is a great deal, but it doesn't seem to be enough to get people to buy an Xbox. It's the most delicious icing on a pretty tiny little mediocre cake.

If the Xbox brand had more games, then Gamepass would be outstanding; however, without that initial buy-in incentive, gamers don't get the most benefit out of the service. Same with Backwards compatibility, that sort of shit is AWESOME and I wish Sony was doing it better, but the reality is that people don't buy new consoles for old games and it seems a stunningly large amount of people still prefer to buy or own their games. Goopy has some points, even if he's a little off from time to time. 

In order to get the most out of Gamepass and Backwards compatibility and more powerful hardware (The three things Xbox does best), you need those exclusive games. Without that incentive as the core driving force behind the console, those other sweet-assed features are delicious toppings on a lacklustre meal. 

That's why I keep saying none of that matters. That's why I keep saying Xbox has no games. That's why I personally feel Microsoft would be better going third party. Nintendo and Sony both have huge lineups of legacy franchises and new IPs that sell well, are beloved, and run the gamut from every genre and age group, but Microsoft is very pointedly an 'American' system, focused on shooters and racers. They do those games fairly well (Forza is the best racing game franchise out there; Halo, though not my thing, is probably the most iconic shooter of all time, etc), but it's basically all they do. Targetting a niche demographic is fine when you're not a console manufacturer, but Microsoft needs to broaden its horizons and try new things. Not just make promises, but actually follow through. 

That's also why I'd be super keen on the idea of GamePass on PS5 (or if I bite the bullet and upgrade, PC, since it almost certainly won't ever come to PS5): Microsoft has a few good games and the deal is outstanding, it's just not enough to make me want an Xbox. 

As for twitter and stuff...well, you're on the internet. IT doesn't matter what side of any debate you're on you're likely to find the most vile and hateful rhetoric. 

That’s all fair to say. That said I think GP is worth it even if you don’t count 1st party. Plenty of 3rd party gems are on it. Even ones you’d think everybody has played were up in the charts like RDR2, GTA5, Witcher 3. Gems for me included Kingdom Come, Metro Trilogy, Wolfenstein 1/2, Rage 2, LOTR Mordor/Shadow of War, Outer Worlds. 

The day 1 exclusive perk is the icing on the cake imo. Saving money on some of the best 3rd party content in the generation (provided you are willing to wait a year after they release) is reason alone to get Xbox. From a purely financial savings point of view. 

What about people like me who HAVE all of those games? Sometimes on multiple consoles? I think about it and look back, and I recently picked up The Witcher III WIld Hunt with all its DLC on PS4 for like I think 20 bucks. Given how long the game takes to complete and how much content is there, that alone is worth, what, 3-5 months worth of gameplay? Same with Red Dead Redemption 2. If I mainline that game, I'm looking at 6+ months worth of my time and I got that digitally for a measly 50 bucks (Canadian, remember.) GamePass is a good deal and I'll never say otherwise, but have you considered the reality that a lot of people already HAVE a lot of the games that are on it? 

If you're just getting into videogaming and have never collected games or regularly sell your games, then there's no deal better. but for people like me, people with hundreds of games (maybe thousands in total) both physically and digitally already, the chances of something coming out on the system that I don't already have but want is pretty slim. Furthermore, Xbox Live and PSN both have 'free' games that you keep for as long as you have their services and I've accumulated dozens of games at least on PSN that I'll have for as long as I have PSN. 

In fact, the more I actually think about it, the clearer it is to me (and clearly to others) that really the only reason to buy gamepass is, once again, Microsoft's first party titles. Honestly, I went into this post ready to be apologetic and compassionate about the service, but the more I think about it the more it sounds like smoke and mirrors. again, the deal IS good, but that doesn't mean the value is the same to everyone. it'd be nice to pick it up and play on my PC or something, but with how many games I already own physically and digitally as well as all the stuff I have on PSN and Switch and Steam...95% of the stuff on GamePass is stuff I already have, don't want, or will never play again. The only games I'd personally get GamePass for are, ironically, stuff like Sea of Thieves. Stuff I'd NEVER buy for myself because I think it's a pretty bad game, but would still be fun to play with my brother and our group of friends. I'd pick up the Halo games for the same reason, I don't like Halo but I'd LOVE to play co-op with my buddies. 

and dammit, I think I just flip-flopped again as I think about that. GamePAss is less about having games of your own and more about communal games everyone owns. If everyone has Sea of Thieves...then what harm is it to boot it up and play coop? Even if you don't like Halo or Forza, you can still play it with your buddies if the opportunity comes up. If you wanna play TitanFall but didn't want to buy a whole game just for the online mode (Well, then I'd recommend titanFall 2, but you get the point), then download it on GamePAss and have a go at it! 

See? This is why this debate isn't dead yet. I do agree that all three major companies have vastly different goals, but at the same time, like...if that's the case then why does Microsoft need its own console? 

I'm rambling. I keep going in circles, but that's where it seems like this is all ending up. It seems a lot of people have reiterated the same thing over and over again, but I'll say it myself. Sony is the traditional console manufacturer with dozens of high fidelity games. Switch emphasizes couch multiplayer and family games as well as portability, and Microsoft cares more about its services. the thing is, if that's the case, making a console just sounds like a drain on Microsoft's funds. The 'service based goods' business model is at odds with their stake in the console market, don't you think?