Let's make this clear while I oppose many socialized programs in America, I never said I oppose all of them. Everything you listed existed under capitalism and were around before most of the social programs introduced in the last 100 years that I take issue with. Even still I can find some room for disagreement.
Well so is socialized healthcare in every developed nation that's also capitalistic.
Having issues with how some things like public education is implemented is understandable. The question is if you're against children who cannot afford private education to also get one. People who can't afford the fire department to have their house fire extinguished, etc.
Doesn't sound like you are, so moving on.
Fire department and police? So if I say yes, I am a socialist for such things
Well that's up to you guys who call universal healthcare socialism. Because that's not how other countries label it, and it's not a controversial issue either.
So if you call someone who wants universal healthcare a socialist, then someone who is ok with driving on public roads funded by tax payers, or rely on law enforcement, fire department, public schooling, etc should be a socialist as well?
Or is there something specifically unique to this one program on top of everything else that would suddenly change everything?
If so, can you demonstrate this by pinpointing it in the healthcare of Japan, Canada, Australia, Norway, Spain, Germany, U.K., etc?
(Other capitalistic developed nations.)
As for public healthcare, well I've read several very personal explanations by doctors on why it is harmful to the practice. My uncle who is a retired doctor is against it. I've also heard it explained by economists and agreed with their reasoning but I'm not capable of explaining it in brevity. I think it would healthcare more expensive and worse, which is what Obamacare did at a smaller scale than what a more comprehensive socialist program would do.
Well a couple of things. There's nothing worse than not being able to afford healthcare at all. Only in USA (talking about developed nations) do people have to make a choice between paying $2500 for an ambulance ride (free in other countries) or risking getting to the hospital too late by going by taxi instead. Which sadly has had fatal outcomes.
You can watch this clip, or not, of U.K. residents reacting to healthcare costs in the US. But it illustrates how the rest of the world reacts when they hear about USA's insane healthcare costs.
Your drug and healthcare expenses keep skyrocketing year after year, to the point where you have insurance companies that actually pay people $500 to fly to another country to pick up their drugs there, because it saves them money. Sounds insane but it's true: https://youtu.be/7Z2XRg3dy9k?t=442
This is why people want to drive to Canada to buy the same drugs, because it's cheaper. Even when that drug is manufactured in USA and shipped to Canada, it can still cheaper to drive there.
The reason for why drug prices keep going up in the US is because unlike every other developed nation on Earth, USA is the only one where the government can't negotiate drug prices. The US based drug manufacturers are unable to price gouge Canada in the same way, so they have to sell the drugs to them at a reasonable price.
Now about making healthcare worse.
The only thing that really changes with universal healthcare is who pays for it. Every country has their own version of it though. The pharmaceutical industry being unable price gouge (which is the first thing that needs to change) stands to lose a lot of money on this. Here's a former health insurance executive admitting to how they spent a lot of $$ to propagate the lie that Canada's healthcare system is worse, etc.
A friend of mine who is a doctor working in the US told me the worst part about his job is dealing with insurance companies. That's not something doctors elsewhere have to do.
Personal story: I had to go to the E.R. one day, and after about 5 mins a nurse called my name and I followed them to be examined. Afterwards he said a surgeon needed to check on me in case it was urgent and I needed surgery right away, so I waited an additional 20 mins for one to show up. (And the surgeon happened to be an old classmate of mine, who I know was a top student.) He determined that there was nothing urgent with my situation, and then I had to wait for another doctor, which then took another 3-4 hours. But I was in no hurry at that point.
They determined I needed a cat scan, which I would get on Monday (I arrived at the E.R. Friday night) so I had to stay there over the weekend while they ran blood tests on me every day. Got my own room with a nice view, had a TV so I could watch the Wold Cup, and I got 3 meals a day. Turns out it wasn't anything serious, and after all was said and done, I left the hospital and they said they'd send me a bill for all of it.
I received the bill a few weeks later. It was a grand total of $30.
It costs me a lot more to pay rent and eat for 3-4 days at home.
We do pay more taxes than USA though (Sort of. You guys have added taxes to products you buy.) but when it comes to important things like healthcare, people think it's worth it. In the US you can for example fund this by not giving billionaires huge tax breaks.
And USA is already spending more on healthcare per capita than other developed nations, while getting a lot less for it.
Last edited by Hiku - on 20 July 2020