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Forums - Politics Discussion - Is it true that Americans are to this day afraid of socialism?

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Zoombael said:

The Nazis advocated a welfare state for German citizens (able Germans of Aryan racial descent) as a means to provide social justice and eliminate social barriers between the German people.[2] The Nazis provided equal access to education for talented children of workers and peasants.[3] Hitler claimed that equality of opportunity for all racially sound German males was the meaning of the "socialism" of National Socialism.[3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkisch_equality

Sounds familiar? It is the same devious sucker. On a smaller "national" scale.

Keep in mind Germany had a welfare state well before the Nazis, since the 1880's in fact (healthcare since 1883, accident insurance since 1884, invalidity and retirement since 1889). So not giving Germans any welfare would have been political suicide and the party would have never gotten of the ground. And that's also why any right-wing party in Germany like the NPD or the AFD wouldn't even dare removing the social programs that Germany has, simply because they are too popular.

That's like trying to remove Obamacare if it had been a proven success since the 1960's. Speaking of which, that wouldn't be the first time the US would have kept social security structures because the GOP would have comitted suicide if they tried to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raeyhY0eqWM

Also, have a good look what they considered as Aryans: Germanic people (which includes Austrians, Swiss and Dutch), Nordic people like Scandinavians and Scots. All the rest wouldn't have gotten any support from the government. The minorities that were living in Germany at the time, like the Jews, but also the sizeable numbers of Poles that lived in Germany even before invading Poland and after 1939, Checks, got nothing. Basically the same as the Dreamers in the US now.

Also, the amount of Welfare in Germany at the time wasn't much bigger than what the US has today, the only thing they had more was a national retirement fund (again, only for those deemed Aryans).

???

What i am poiting at is the scapegoating tactics demagogs and extremists like to use to pitch one side vs. the other, declaring "class enemies" like the Jews or in Soviet Union the Kulaks or white peo... - no wait... way too early - and insist on the supposed injustices befalling the good and the rightous. "Social Justice". Versailler Treaty, Dolchstosslegende.

You seem to think i'm saying German National Socialism is 1:1 Stalinism. You re not listening. But to the media you like to listen to. They could scare you with a picture of a Bushman as the next Nazi Heiland.



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Zoombael said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Keep in mind Germany had a welfare state well before the Nazis, since the 1880's in fact (healthcare since 1883, accident insurance since 1884, invalidity and retirement since 1889). So not giving Germans any welfare would have been political suicide and the party would have never gotten of the ground. And that's also why any right-wing party in Germany like the NPD or the AFD wouldn't even dare removing the social programs that Germany has, simply because they are too popular.

That's like trying to remove Obamacare if it had been a proven success since the 1960's. Speaking of which, that wouldn't be the first time the US would have kept social security structures because the GOP would have comitted suicide if they tried to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raeyhY0eqWM

Also, have a good look what they considered as Aryans: Germanic people (which includes Austrians, Swiss and Dutch), Nordic people like Scandinavians and Scots. All the rest wouldn't have gotten any support from the government. The minorities that were living in Germany at the time, like the Jews, but also the sizeable numbers of Poles that lived in Germany even before invading Poland and after 1939, Checks, got nothing. Basically the same as the Dreamers in the US now.

Also, the amount of Welfare in Germany at the time wasn't much bigger than what the US has today, the only thing they had more was a national retirement fund (again, only for those deemed Aryans).

???

What i am poiting at is the scapegoating tactics demagogs and extremists like to use to pitch one side vs. the other, declaring "class enemies" like the Jews or in Soviet Union the Kulaks or white peo... - no wait... way too early - and insist on the supposed injustices befalling the good and the rightous. "Social Justice". Versailler Treaty, Dolchstosslegende.

You seem to think i'm saying German National Socialism is 1:1 Stalinism. You re not listening. But to the media you like to listen to. They could scare you with a picture of a Bushman as the next Nazi Heiland.

WTF???

They're further apart than the Greens and the Republican Party in the US in ideology. How do you get to the point that I would be thinking Nazism and Stalinism would be the same?



SpokenTruth said:
invetedlotus123 said:

I read on internet than many people the USA are adamantly against full government funded health system like they have in Europe because they associate it with socialism and if they accept that soon other socialist things will star to happen. 

I know this is a very stereotypical view, mostly from USA media that for a long time used soviétics as villains. 

For decades, the US has been involved with hot and cold wars that focused around communism, fascism and authoritarianism.  Part of that included a lot of propaganda that equated all of it with the umbrella term 'socialism'.  This had led to generations that view socialism as 'the enemy'.

Thankfully the younger generations have started to learn the various nuances of socialism and see them for the specific economic and political functions they are rather than a symbolic boogeyman.

Socialism and fascism are the same thing?

Jesus, history and geopolitics go wrong in US, then?



People who advocate for socialism imo tend to want more handouts from the government. On paper it’s a noble ideology. But people abuse and put a strain on the system. Then you have numerous examples in history of governments being corrupt, and mismanaged. Which ultimately leads to stagnation and collapse.



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Agente42 said:
SpokenTruth said:

For decades, the US has been involved with hot and cold wars that focused around communism, fascism and authoritarianism.  Part of that included a lot of propaganda that equated all of it with the umbrella term 'socialism'.  This had led to generations that view socialism as 'the enemy'.

Thankfully the younger generations have started to learn the various nuances of socialism and see them for the specific economic and political functions they are rather than a symbolic boogeyman.

Socialism and fascism are the same thing?

Jesus, history and geopolitics go wrong in US, then?

Fascism rose under a socialist policy. Basically, get the masses pissed off at the current government, promise free stuff and that things will get better. Once in power, Germany then implemented a fascism regime. 

They kind of go hand in hand. Today Democrats  pride themselves on speech censorship, and condone violence against conservatives. All in the name of what they think is right and any other opinion is swiftly silenced. Disagree and you loose your job or get death threats. To me where as historically we dealt with right wing fascism, today we seeing the rise in left wing fascism. Both used Socialism to gain influence. Both take away rights for the greater good of the state. Both suppress freedoms of individuals. 



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Glad to see that the "actually the Nazis were socialists" posts are still going on around here. Completely false and absurd.



 

Socialism just means government. The degree to which your are a socialist is the degree to which you are a statist.



sales2099 said:
Agente42 said:

Socialism and fascism are the same thing?

Jesus, history and geopolitics go wrong in US, then?

Fascism rose under a socialist policy. Basically, get the masses pissed off at the current government, promise free stuff and that things will get better. Once in power, Germany then implemented a fascism regime. 

They kind of go hand in hand. Today Democrats  pride themselves on speech censorship, and condone violence against conservatives. All in the name of what they think is right and any other opinion is swiftly silenced. Disagree and you loose your job or get death threats. To me where as historically we dealt with right wing fascism, today we seeing the rise in left wing fascism. Both used Socialism to gain influence. Both take away rights for the greater good of the state. Both suppress freedoms of individuals. 

You are wrong. Way wrong. That's debate is over on 1940 and settle. It's no remotely the same thing. It's a superficial and wrong comparison.  First, fascism doesn't rose under a socialist policy, German is a capitalist country, and the party has socialism only the name. The view is far away from socialism or any egalitarianism. Nazi German promote companies, private companies. The historical fascist has right-wing roots, and nazi has American intolerant roots.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler

The historical fascist is the right side. The new fascism is too. 



YukikoAmagi said:
Glad to see that the "actually the Nazis were socialists" posts are still going on around here. Completely false and absurd.

neoconservative, ancaps and right-wing revisited history appears so. 



sales2099 said:
Agente42 said:

Socialism and fascism are the same thing?

Jesus, history and geopolitics go wrong in US, then?

Fascism rose under a socialist policy. Basically, get the masses pissed off at the current government, promise free stuff and that things will get better. Once in power, Germany then implemented a fascism regime. 

They kind of go hand in hand. Today Democrats  pride themselves on speech censorship, and condone violence against conservatives. All in the name of what they think is right and any other opinion is swiftly silenced. Disagree and you loose your job or get death threats. To me where as historically we dealt with right wing fascism, today we seeing the rise in left wing fascism. Both used Socialism to gain influence. Both take away rights for the greater good of the state. Both suppress freedoms of individuals. 

Completely agree.

I am actually baffled on how many people defend socialism. It is as absurd as someone defending nazism to me, because socialism/communism is as bad as that. USRR killed more people in concentration camps in WW II, god knows how many they killed in the cold war in their own country, and the destruction they caused to the countries they absorbed.

This is definitive proof that humans can be complete idiots.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1