By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Is it true that Americans are to this day afraid of socialism?

Ck1x on 21 July 2020
invetedlotus123 said:

I read on internet than many people the USA are adamantly against full government funded health system like they have in Europe because they associate it with socialism and if they accept that soon other socialist things will star to happen. 

I know this is a very stereotypical view, mostly from USA media that for a long time used soviétics as villains. 

It all depends on who is benefiting from the socialism over here in America whether people are for it or not. If it's to help the poor and working class, then it's bad, but if it is giving handouts to the wealthy then let's Make it Great Again!!!



Around the Network
JRPGfan on 21 July 2020
Nautilus said:
JRPGfan said:

"Its a facism regime that killed hundreds of millions of people. Everyone should be very afraid of it."

Then you should take note, when people say, they see the current president heading down the rabbit hole, of being a facist.
Germany just like trump supporters, didnt see the danger, until it was too late.

I mean, I know you guys don't like Trump and all, and I do agree that he says some stupid things here and there, but saying that his government is almost akin to a facist ragime? I don't think that even normal people would say that about Biden just out of spite. You guys really need to get your heads out of your asses. Go talk to someone who really lived through hell in these regimes( like people who lived in the USSR or are living in Bolivia right now for example) and be glad that the US allows you to have the freedom and democracy that it gives, and that yes, Trump has maintained.

You know two wrongs dont make a right? right?
When I talk about Trump acting like a autocrat, and potentially being a facist dictator in the makeing.
You going "other places had facists" and then go "not even normal people would say that about Joe Biden"..... what about Trump? just ignore that?
(Also duh! Joe Biden is not the US president, and acting like a facist, if he does once hes in office, normal people would be saying the same thing).


"go talk to someone that lived through hell in these regimes" poor excuse/avoidence too.

I said, just like in germany, Hitlers supporters didn't see the evil of the man, until it was too late.
Your basically proveing my point, as a Trump supporter.

Your ignoreing facts about Trump you dont like.
His way of acting isn't normal, and its edgeing towards becomeing a autocrat/facist, and your not worried at all.

Theres videos of secrete police, that carry no idenfication, dont talk to anyone, drive in unmarked vans, that just kidnapp people off the streets.

"its fine, they shouldn't be out peacefully protesting anyways. This isn't something a facist would do!"

Suuuuure Nautilus.



JRPGfan on 21 July 2020
DonFerrari said:
Hiku said:

I'll have a look. I just think that USA's system is inhumane, and there needs to be some system that guarantees it *channels Bernie voice* "as a yuuuman right" to every citizen.

Governments are inherintanly inneficient and giving stuff for free usually is underappreciated and inflated demand, so it usually makes for a lot of waste money. With tickets government keep only the very basic national sovereign, judicial system and infraestructure. School and Health aren't managed by government, they basically transfer some sort of wealth (coupons) but the hospitals and schools are private and people can choose where they want to use so that can improve competition among schools. Of course that also need to very well defined to avoid entering the problems of guaranteed money to universities inflating prices and similar for the health cost in USA.

However the world has proven its the most effecient way of doing things?
Since the 1 country in the world basically where they dont use that system, things are much more expensive, and overall the service is worse.



JRPGfan on 21 July 2020
snyps said:


Id be more open to socialism (more government) if it weren’t for this stuff.. seriously.. the government has to be aware that victimless crime laws creates the black market and all the violent crimes that come with that. Actually they count on it! Because then people go running to the government requesting more government to save them.

I'm guessing your against Parking tickets, Speeding tickets ect? Its all just hidden tax's for the state?

"victimless crime laws creates the black market and all the violent crimes that come with that."


Yes because you cannot drive your car 200 mph without being chased by cops, your probably at some black market, doing violet crimes instead!
That makes alot of sense.



Bofferbrauer2 on 21 July 2020
Nautilus said:
JRPGfan said:

*facepalm*

Nazi germany wasnt socialism though....

You know how when you want to sell something bad, as something good to fool people? you find a innocnent name for it?
National socialism (nazism) is just that. It had nothing to do with socialism, so you cannot call it socialism, without being dishonest about things.

Since you dont know what socalism or facism is:

Facism:

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"
+
"a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control "

Nationalism, is basically patriotism. Differnt worlds, more or less same meaning.
A Regim that puts nation & race, above the individuals.

Who runs his Presidency campagne on "america first!" ?
uses racism, patriotism..., won by mainly getting just the "white" vote?



"a dictatorial leader, severe economic and regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

""a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control"

Trump is all about all about Autocracy (authority or rule of the president, one person possesses near unlimited power (unchecked power))
He wishes he had unlimited power, and is working his way to towards it.


Typically alot of these autocrats, and facists, attack journalists, because their "truth" is the only one the public needs to hear.
Remember "Fake news!" ? Seeing the police attacking journalist, during the protests, actively targeting them?

Trump is friends with white power groups.

Atleast back when he ran in 2016.
People in his campagne, were people with ties to white power groups.
Hes since distanced himself from them...

But then theres the tale of his ex-wife, saying he slept with a book on hilter, and his speeches by his bedside.
(and loved to read the speeches before going to sleep)


"....and forcible suppression of opposition"

Remeber when he chanted "lock her up" about his political oppenent? And Trump followers gladly followed his lead?
He asked for russia to hack her emails on live tv, hopeing the russians got dirt on her.
He asked Ukraine on intel on Joe Biden...

Trump isn't far from facism, autocracy, nazism.

"Its a facism regime that killed hundreds of millions of people. Everyone should be very afraid of it."

Then you should take note, when people say, they see the current president heading down the rabbit hole, of being a facist.
Germany just like trump supporters, didnt see the danger, until it was too late.

Who said anything about Nazism?

I am talking here about the Soviet Union, Cuba, China, etc.

All of them have carachteristics of facist regime, even if they implement it under the guise of a socialist/communist regime. Everything you just described was used by these socialist regimes as tools to control the population and stay in power. 

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual" - Check.(especially for the USSR)

"that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader" - Check.(Raul Castro, Fidel Castro, Stalin, etc) Leaders were appointed by the government, and weren't even elected in any capacity, *cough* in opposition to your ridiculous Trump comparison *cough*

"severe economic and regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition" - Check. I mean, The Wall of Berlin. I don't think anything else needs to be said.

I mean, I know you guys don't like Trump and all, and I do agree that he says some stupid things here and there, but saying that his government is almost akin to a facist ragime? I don't think that even normal people would say that about Biden just out of spite. You guys really need to get your heads out of your asses. Go talk to someone who really lived through hell in these regimes( like people who lived in the USSR or are living in Bolivia right now for example) and be glad that the US allows you to have the freedom and democracy that it gives, and that yes, Trump has maintained.

Who said anything about Nazism? You did, when you equated Socialism to Fascism, which are two totally opposed things.

Also, I answered to you (I think, could have been someone else instead) before that Soviet Communism, which is based on Stalinism, is very far removed from actual socialism and that socialists who weren't under the Soviet Union's thumb called themselves the third camp, opposing both capitalism and the Soviet Union. Actual socialism is based on Trotskyism, and those were the people that Stalin purged from the Soviet Union in 1937-1941, and even went so far to assassinate Leon Trotsky in his Mexican exile. As a result all american depictions of Socialism are from Stalinism, which is like looking at rape porn and then decide from this that all kinds of movies are bad for people.

What is considered socialism in the US would be mostly centrist in Europe, not even center-left, with many of the policies in question not even being questioned by right-wing parties there.

As for the bolded part, my grandparents did, growing up under Nazi occupation in WW2. My gandfather is so terribly afraid of Trump he hopes he dies before shit hits the fan (sadly, I fear he will, my grandpa isn't in very good health anymore now aged 90). The constant lies, the misinformation campaigns, the propaganda, the rhetoric, everything reminds him of what the Nazis did here in Luxembourg under the occupation.



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

Around the Network
Eagle367 on 21 July 2020
Pyro as Bill said:
If the US diverted it's military spending to health like the British Empire did when it realised it could give everyone 'free' healthcare at the cost of 'Empire', they'll end up with some of the shittest healthcare on the planet per $ spent but will laud it as being the best in the world even though tens of thousands die of plague while other countries with less 'communist' healthcare systems embarrass you with 20% of the same budget.

What the hell are you talking about? That's pure nonsense and rambling. The guy above you talking about social programs being bad was laughable but you are just being ridiculous



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 on 21 July 2020

This entire thread can be summed up by THE RED SCARE. Those who bought it fear socialism without understanding it and those that didn't have a much more nuanced view of the world



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

DonFerrari on 21 July 2020
JRPGfan said:
DonFerrari said:

Governments are inherintanly inneficient and giving stuff for free usually is underappreciated and inflated demand, so it usually makes for a lot of waste money. With tickets government keep only the very basic national sovereign, judicial system and infraestructure. School and Health aren't managed by government, they basically transfer some sort of wealth (coupons) but the hospitals and schools are private and people can choose where they want to use so that can improve competition among schools. Of course that also need to very well defined to avoid entering the problems of guaranteed money to universities inflating prices and similar for the health cost in USA.

However the world has proven its the most effecient way of doing things?
Since the 1 country in the world basically where they dont use that system, things are much more expensive, and overall the service is worse.

Quick examples. When landlines were owned and managed by government a new line costed about as much as a car to buy, took over 6 month to install and calls also costed a fortune, no wonder it was like 1-5% of the population had phones in their houses. Months after the privatization of the service you could have a line installed in like a week, for 1% of the cost perhaps, and we quickly gone for almost 100% houses having phones. Today with smartphones we almost have 2 lines per person.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

snyps on 21 July 2020
JRPGfan said:
snyps said:


Id be more open to socialism (more government) if it weren’t for this stuff.. seriously.. the government has to be aware that victimless crime laws creates the black market and all the violent crimes that come with that. Actually they count on it! Because then people go running to the government requesting more government to save them.

I'm guessing your against Parking tickets, Speeding tickets ect? Its all just hidden tax's for the state?

"victimless crime laws creates the black market and all the violent crimes that come with that."


Yes because you cannot drive your car 200 mph without being chased by cops, your probably at some black market, doing violet crimes instead!
That makes alot of sense.

I hope you’re joking, no. I’m talking about prohibition. Banning narcotics, makes gangsters violently rich. Prohibiting sex work, makes gangsters violently rich. Both are victimless acts is regulated. Narcotics needs to be treated the same way we treat alcohol use. 

But I’m pretty sure you’re just having a go at me. 



JRPGfan on 21 July 2020
snyps said:
JRPGfan said:

I'm guessing your against Parking tickets, Speeding tickets ect? Its all just hidden tax's for the state?

"victimless crime laws creates the black market and all the violent crimes that come with that."


Yes because you cannot drive your car 200 mph without being chased by cops, your probably at some black market, doing violet crimes instead!
That makes alot of sense.

I hope you’re joking, no. I’m talking about prohibition. Banning narcotics, makes gangsters violently rich. Prohibiting sex work, makes gangsters violently rich. Both are victimless acts is regulated. Narcotics needs to be treated the same way we treat alcohol use. 

But I’m pretty sure you’re just having a go at me. 

Now can you list the reasons why they are banned?
Are you assumeing theren't arnt valid reasons why? whats the other side of the coin so to speak.

You list the downsides of banning narcotics, and sex work.
Why would you want to ban them? what do they want to avoid by enforceing a  ban?