I would like to see it your way but it is so hard to do when you are less american than native americans so your opinion does not matter. (sarcasm)

If the US diverted it's military spending to health like the British Empire did when it realised it could give everyone 'free' healthcare at the cost of 'Empire', they'll end up with some of the shittest healthcare on the planet per $ spent but will laud it as being the best in the world even though tens of thousands die of plague while other countries with less 'communist' healthcare systems embarrass you with 20% of the same budget.

UK went socialist after WW2 because 'winning' taught us that nationalism/socialism wins wars. Germany humiliated us by avoiding socialism at all costs.

We blew our Marshall Plan money on socialist healthcare while Germany used the cash to rebuild their industrial base and within 20 years they could have took/did take over Europe again.

Germany hates debt and as a result has been able to dominate Europe 3 times in the last 100years. The English pound was the most successful currency in all of history until they left the gold standard.

You can only ignore reality for so long.

When Trump said "Democrats want to socialize your Medicare!" and got a big applause in one of his rallies, that shows how brainwashed this country is against the term socialism since non of them caught the irony of that comment. Honestly the majority of the country mostly believes in medicare for all done by the government, but because of how the government is set up it gives enough power to those that don't want it, hence with we don't have it.

Let's make this clear while I oppose many socialized programs in America, I never said I oppose all of them. Everything you listed existed under capitalism and were around before most of the social programs introduced in the last 100 years that I take issue with. Even still I can find some room for disagreement.

I support public schooling in a different timeline, but I have many complaints with its current implementation. Common core has been a disaster and American education system uses tax payer dollars at a terrible lack of efficiency. I'm not sending my children to public school if I can afford it, and I consider it robbery that I will still have to pay taxes for it. I think people who send their children to private schools, Catholic schools, or charters should be tax credited and face no penalty. I strongly support choice. 

I completely support maintenance for public roads and bridges, but I'm against many laws in place which allow for government to steal farmers land, be forced to sell and move from their house. We should be maintaining older infrastructure and replacing it, but instead we are forced to constantly expand these roads or add new ones because of traffic. And yes, this is an either or scenario due to costs.

On top of that, a lot of the reason we still need increases are because of the growth in population which is almost entirely from immigration. Not only due to illegal immigration not properly being enforced, but also the 1965 immigration act which was passed under false pretenses. Not only did people such as Ted Kennedy claim this would not change American ideological or racial demographics, but it was also created by lobbyists who were never elected to public office. In any case you polling random people only proves my point about the new Americans not having respect for this country like older immigrants did. Italians and Irish were not white, but they assimilated with only subversives from mafia being the outliers. Worth noting that Pelosi's family has ties to mafia Italians aka the worst of the worst anti-American Italians. I myself am part Italian btw and my pro-American ancestors hated the mafia.

While I do support infrastructure maintenance and would support several trillion $ worth of projects, I only support it in tandem with changes to immigration and ending the attacks on farmers stealing their land. I'm also not in support of foreign nationals, dual citizens, or bankers to buy land en masse so I support government regulation in that regard. 

Parks are iffy. I see many private parks that are taken care of far better than my local state park. I regularly go to botanical gardens, parks, and estates. Especially back when I was working in a garden center. I don't have a strong opinion on this. 

Fire department and police? So if I say yes, I am a socialist for such things and yesterday if I say yes I was a white supremacy. 🥴

As for public healthcare, well I've read several very personal explanations by doctors on why it is harmful to the practice. My uncle who is a retired doctor is against it. I've also heard it explained by economists and agreed with their reasoning but I'm not capable of explaining it in brevity. I think it would healthcare more expensive and worse, which is what Obamacare did at a smaller scale than what a more comprehensive socialist program would do. 

I also support some regulations on big tech, retail monopolies, and bank usury. Does that make me a socialist? No. I don't support UBI or public healthcare which are totally anti-American at their core. 

I'm surprised you didn't bring up COVID stimulus which is the most obvious form of socialism in recent memory. Although it is an emergency fund and not the same as a standard national program in daily life. 

Bottom line, show me a socialist plan that includes reducing taxes and I will consider it, but right now American taxation is already high enough and the government systems prove time and time again they are incompetent at the foundational levels and corrupt at the highest when they see an opportunity. I'm not an anarcho-capitalist who believes all social programs are bad, but I do see socialism as dangerous because it is. The exact opposite of what you are saying is true. Our education system teaches things poorly to about what America stands for. It still preaches people like Joe McCarthy as a villain and says his red scare was wrong when it was completely right and vindicated. The original reason for the scare after all was things like MK Ultra (led by communist infiltrators in the CIA) and Russian agents stealing nuclear secrets (happened). Our government is already HUGE, way bigger than it should be. Anyone who suggests we need more rather than actual fixes to the system itself are just asking for problems. I absolutely consider Americans who support socialism less American and in almost all cases they are. Who are the one's destroying statues? Not socialists? Actually yes, BLM has many self described socialists and even terrorists at the top of its chain of command. 

It is not a universal case on an individual level so it doesn't speak to some anecdote friends we might have in our personal lives, but rather one that accurately describes the generations on general or scientific terms. Ideological transformation has actually always been a problem with any mass migration to this country which is why almost all our immigration policies prior to the 1965 immigration act were extremely strict even with Europeans and often factored in ideology and job capabilities when allowing people to come to this country. The 1930s were met with some backlash which is why Republicans in the 1940s passed an immigration moratorium and several clarifications on citizenship. The Nationality Act of 1940 would suggest that dual citizens should not be in our country and in fact lose citizenship, yet there are tons of them maintain influence in congress today (mostly dual citizens from Israel). Until 1990 there was plenty of official policy that allowed for the US to reject people who supported anarchism or socialism and other left wing beliefs. It wasn't a perfect system and enforcement varied greatly, but it definitely represented an American consciousness against these ideas. The 1965 immigration act was also passed under false promises, that we would see no demographic transformation on both the basis of race and ideology. 

The truth there is an ideological divide between those who decent from older generations of Americans and those from newer generations the latter who often produce children that are often far more left wing than themselves at higher rates than the overall population. This is in part due to our education system pitting them against American ideas through cultural marxism. Legal immigration numbers have sky-rocketed to levels that take no effort to explain as to how or why they are problematic and subversive to the American worker. Also, worth noting the same people who want socialism are the same people that claim every older American hero was racist and needs to be cancelled. The one's violently protesting against our government should be considered traitors which is how they would have been treated 100 or 200 years ago and how the Nationality Act of 1940 claimed that they should lose citizenship. It's obvious that corrupt politicians only support open borders because it creates a voting block which is why many of the long term democrats that have been in power actually flip flopped on the issue. I support repatriation efforts which might sound like a fancy word for deportation, but it's the most logical evolution of the American consciousness and one that is more ethical than the stages that led to the current state of American politics. At the very least we should implement an immigration moratorium as we have several times in our country's past. Socialism has no place in America and is in fact itself anti-American. America has a socialist and social marxist problem. 

While some regulations and policies that I support might seem socialistic I am ultimately in favor of private property and there's no limit to problems with normalizing socialism as acceptable or benevolent. Of course capitalism needs some regulations especially with bank usury, monopolies, and newer technology being neglected currently. I also ultimately believe a system is only part of what creates a good society and that ultimately the moral principles of its people are also important. A national healthcare system wouldn't be a horrible act to transform our country, but it would create some problems and make our system worse. However, this thread was based on the wider notion of socialism. Socialism itself is based on resentment and misjudgment of human conditions at its philosophical origin.

Even the OP of this thread the conversation was set forth with a framing that calls into question the level of "good faith" in this discussion. It's not an irrational fear at all to oppose socialism, but an intuitive American consciousness. Also, if anything our current education system does a terrible job at educating Americans about its evils; rather it intentionally subverts it which is why more and more people support it. Social marxism and infiltration have been a problem for decades and these aren't conspiracy theories as almost everyone on the right can at least provide some examples let alone actual factors like affirmative action, FDR allowing foreign communists into our Ivy League colleges through his own affirmative action, and tons of policies that are systematically anti-American in nature (such as education programs that only target minorities or immigrants). Everyone should understand the slippery slope of socialism is real and socialist nations have no doubt led to highest levels of displacement through immigration, slavery and police states, dystopia dysfunction, and mass starvation in every form and compared to every ideology. Socialism has been worse than all of white supremacy, fascism, and religious oppression combined which I agree had many problems in their own cases. Socialism (and communism) are the deadliest and ugliest ideology in human history that have led to the highest levels of suffering. That is why we "fear" socialism.   

Conversely American capitalism/industrialization almost immediately lowered poverty to historical record bests, created decades of generational wealth, countless foundational inventions, and towards the tail end of the industrialization boom America was the tallest nation on the planet. Its global influence led to global record bests in lowering poverty and starvation. Meanwhile a lot of globalist policies today are actually destabilizing the third world, reopening slave trade, used for trafficking, and flooding the first world with the third world and creating long term problems. Don't get me wrong the neocon Republicans are just as bad as the Democrats. Interestingly neoconservatism was originally penned by so called defectors of communism. It's almost like choosing between Mensheviks (neocons) and Bolskeviks (democrats). Of course they don't like each other, but both hate the actual nation (Americans) more than each other. Hence the constant gaslighting against Americans. We need to see a capitalist revival and repatriation of anti-Americans in this country if we want to get the best version of America.

I would suggest you look at negative tax and coupon system from very liberal austriac school. It doesn't do statization of anything, doesn't go for the socialism ideals on these but also allow that poor people have access to education and health. Much better system than things like Brazilian univeral healthcare and public education.

Who said anything about Nazism?

I am talking here about the Soviet Union, Cuba, China, etc.

All of them have carachteristics of facist regime, even if they implement it under the guise of a socialist/communist regime. Everything you just described was used by these socialist regimes as tools to control the population and stay in power. 

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual" - Check.(especially for the USSR)

"that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader" - Check.(Raul Castro, Fidel Castro, Stalin, etc) Leaders were appointed by the government, and weren't even elected in any capacity, *cough* in opposition to your ridiculous Trump comparison *cough*

"severe economic and regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition" - Check. I mean, The Wall of Berlin. I don't think anything else needs to be said.

I mean, I know you guys don't like Trump and all, and I do agree that he says some stupid things here and there, but saying that his government is almost akin to a facist ragime? I don't think that even normal people would say that about Biden just out of spite. You guys really need to get your heads out of your asses. Go talk to someone who really lived through hell in these regimes( like people who lived in the USSR or are living in Bolivia right now for example) and be glad that the US allows you to have the freedom and democracy that it gives, and that yes, Trump has maintained.

Governments are inherintanly inneficient and giving stuff for free usually is underappreciated and inflated demand, so it usually makes for a lot of waste money. With tickets government keep only the very basic national sovereign, judicial system and infraestructure. School and Health aren't managed by government, they basically transfer some sort of wealth (coupons) but the hospitals and schools are private and people can choose where they want to use so that can improve competition among schools. Of course that also need to very well defined to avoid entering the problems of guaranteed money to universities inflating prices and similar for the health cost in USA.

Id be more open to socialism (more government) if it weren’t for this stuff.. seriously.. the government has to be aware that victimless crime laws creates the black market and all the violent crimes that come with that. Actually they count on it! Because then people go running to the government requesting more government to save them.