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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer Says Xbox Series X Games Aren't Being Held Back By Xbox One

goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Can someone decipher that FUD from gooper please.

The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't just the 2 years of Xone support that will be a pain in the ass. The remainder of next gen developers will need to work around the limitations of the 4Tflops Lockhart. Of course MS will say Lockhart won't be holding Series X back. But how are we supposed to believe that when they say even the ancient Xone isn't holding it back?

To me it sounds the Series S will actually be MS's main next gen console and Series X is their mid-gen console coming early. Its the only logical explanation why MS is talking so much about 4k/60fps.

I find it funny that you say something is the only logical explanation while simultaneously providing absolutely zero logic to back it up.



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goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Can someone decipher that FUD from gooper please.

The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't just the 2 years of Xone support that will be a pain in the ass. The remainder of next gen developers will need to work around the limitations of the 4Tflops Lockhart. Of course MS will say Lockhart won't be holding Series X back. But how are we supposed to believe that when they say even the ancient Xone isn't holding it back?

To me it sounds the Series S will actually be MS's main next gen console and Series X is their mid-gen console coming early. Its the only logical explanation why MS is talking so much about 4k/60fps.

Is Lockhart not using the same CPU as the Series X? 



...to avoid getting banned for inactivity, I may have to resort to comments that are of a lower overall quality and or beneath my moral standards.

goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Can someone decipher that FUD from gooper please.

The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't just the 2 years of Xone support that will be a pain in the ass. The remainder of next gen developers will need to work around the limitations of the 4Tflops Lockhart. Of course MS will say Lockhart won't be holding Series X back. But how are we supposed to believe that when they say even the ancient Xone isn't holding it back?

To me it sounds the Series S will actually be MS's main next gen console and Series X is their mid-gen console coming early. Its the only logical explanation why MS is talking so much about 4k/60fps.

1-2. Lockhart they scale down like any game being made for multiple PC GPU configurations. Launch titles don’t push the envelope as later gen games so Xbox One support isn’t out of the question if they really wanted to include it, even if it’s gimped compared to Series X.

Not MSs fault for trying to nail the next gen benchmarks because that’s what we fans wanted for years now. How could they know that one fan faction would suddenly not care anymore and settle on 1440p/30fps as the holy grail? Good thing Series X is beefier. 

Just save your opinions till after July 23, cause I’m pretty sure at this point you just getting off on trying to trigger others. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

Of course early games typically get surpassed in visuals later on. I can also totally understand if people want to hold out with buying a next gen console till the big titles start coming out. My only problem is that MS is purposely not looking to push the next gen envelope. 

Phil can say whatever he wants but we all know the Xone will hold Series X 1st party games back, just like any cross-gen title will. The question is really what will happen after that 2 year period? The 4Tflops Lockhart seems to be real. And yes, it won't be holding Series X games back. But that doesn't mean focusing on 4k and 120fps, just to make sure those games won't be held back on Lockhart, is the most efficient way to use the Series X hardware. 

FUD. You can’t say this before their event not knowing what they will show. Before we’ve seen any official gameplay. Then you have games like Flight Simulator which we have seen that I promise Sony has nothing on that level in terms of scale. I missed the part where Xbox One holding back that game. 

You keep forgetting this isn’t PS5 specs. If you have your pessimistic hopes then I can hope they can leverage that extra 20-30% to hit resolution/FPS benchmarks while still looking next gen. Where as Sony has to choose one or the other and convince people like yourself it’s for the best. No thanks. 

You are being stubborn, even if you go for your exaggerated 30% advantage for XSX that isn't enough to cover both a 1440p to 4k and 30fps to 60fps gap, each of those is a 100% cost. So for XSX to run 4k60fps the same game PS5 is running 1440p30fps would need 4x the power gap. At most with the 30% (won't really be 30% but you can pretend it is) you can have both games at same pixelcount and framerate with more effects on XSX version or if it is a case that PS5 being close to 4k or 60fps but not enough so it had to be capped to 30fps or upscalled to 4k then that powergap can make XSX native 4k or locked 60fps.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

LudicrousSpeed said:
goopy20 said:

The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't just the 2 years of Xone support that will be a pain in the ass. The remainder of next gen developers will need to work around the limitations of the 4Tflops Lockhart. Of course MS will say Lockhart won't be holding Series X back. But how are we supposed to believe that when they say even the ancient Xone isn't holding it back?

To me it sounds the Series S will actually be MS's main next gen console and Series X is their mid-gen console coming early. Its the only logical explanation why MS is talking so much about 4k/60fps.

I find it funny that you say something is the only logical explanation while simultaneously providing absolutely zero logic to back it up.

Its the only reason why MS would say things like "The differences between current and next gen are mainly in the resolution and framerates". And "we don't care if you buy Series X or not". Lets face it, ever since MS announced a 12Tflops console it has felt like there's always been some kind of catch, like the no exclusives for the first 2 years thing. I mean if its Phil's job not to get people excited about Series X, he sure has been doing a fantastic job.

Now, just imagine there was no Series X and MS only announced Lockhart. People would be pissed as 4Tflops doesn't sounds like much of an upgrade. So what do you do? You announce the premium 12Tflops Series X first, while at the same time talk about how the generational jump will be a lot smaller compared to previous gens and lower people's expectations. Then you announce the 4Tflops Lockhart saying it plays the same games as Series X except in 30fps/1440p at a third of the price...

We already know that only 1/5 of ps4's sold were pro models. So why would MS use 4k/60fps as the main selling point for Series X, knowing most people don't care about it and 80% will likely opt for the cheaper version? I'm telling yas, we're all getting bamboozled!  

Last edited by goopy20 - on 13 July 2020

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DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

FUD. You can’t say this before their event not knowing what they will show. Before we’ve seen any official gameplay. Then you have games like Flight Simulator which we have seen that I promise Sony has nothing on that level in terms of scale. I missed the part where Xbox One holding back that game. 

You keep forgetting this isn’t PS5 specs. If you have your pessimistic hopes then I can hope they can leverage that extra 20-30% to hit resolution/FPS benchmarks while still looking next gen. Where as Sony has to choose one or the other and convince people like yourself it’s for the best. No thanks. 

You are being stubborn, even if you go for your exaggerated 30% advantage for XSX that isn't enough to cover both a 1440p to 4k and 30fps to 60fps gap, each of those is a 100% cost. So for XSX to run 4k60fps the same game PS5 is running 1440p30fps would need 4x the power gap. At most with the 30% (won't really be 30% but you can pretend it is) you can have both games at same pixelcount and frameorate with more effects on XSX version or if it is a case that PS5 being close to 4k or 60fps but not enough so it had to be capped to 30fps or upscalled to 4k then that powergap can make XSX native 4k or locked 60fps.

I think it’s fair to say there’s a 20-30% gap. PS5 can’t overclock their games 100% of the time where as Series X is consistent. 

I’m looking at Gears 5 and Forza 7 which are both 4K/60 FPS on Xbox X. Both aren’t ugly games by any stretch of the imagination. If any console has a shot of hitting those benchmarks while STILL providing a next gen visual upgrade it’s Series X. Even if it’s 4K checkerboard with 60 I’m sure is an option only Series X can do comfortably. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Phil is lying here and his statement is provable false.  He's used a classic bait and switch tactic too.

First, we know that lower power PC's hold back game development.  Ex-EA games game engine dev "The Cherno" said this one his YouTube Channel. ( https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ-W1KE9EYfdxhL6S4twUNw ) I think the video he said in was this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erxUR9SI4F0 - Although I've not watched it back to check.

Also Phil says how PC lower end rigs are not holding back Higher end rigs.  Let's pretend that this statement is true.  But he is clearly saying this in response to Sony and how Sony showed with games like Ratchet and Clank (the warp mechanic in particular) that PS5 allows them to create games that was impossible on previous hardware.

Well the problem with Phil saying that PC isn't held back by lower end rigs is that he is comparing apples to oranges.  A PC games HAS to be made with lower specs in mind, but also the hardware of a lower spec machine and high spec machine is pretty much the same really.  it's just faster/larger numbers of the same thing.

As we saw in the "road to PS5" video, the way data is moved around in the console is much different to a PC.  With the custom decompression and pipe line differences, it's not the same as just PS4 but with bigger numbers.

I thought Phil would be better than this.



Sony want to make money by selling art, Nintendo want to make money by selling fun, Microsoft want to make money.

sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

You are being stubborn, even if you go for your exaggerated 30% advantage for XSX that isn't enough to cover both a 1440p to 4k and 30fps to 60fps gap, each of those is a 100% cost. So for XSX to run 4k60fps the same game PS5 is running 1440p30fps would need 4x the power gap. At most with the 30% (won't really be 30% but you can pretend it is) you can have both games at same pixelcount and frameorate with more effects on XSX version or if it is a case that PS5 being close to 4k or 60fps but not enough so it had to be capped to 30fps or upscalled to 4k then that powergap can make XSX native 4k or locked 60fps.

I think it’s fair to say there’s a 20-30% gap. PS5 can’t overclock their games 100% of the time where as Series X is consistent. 

I’m looking at Gears 5 and Forza 7 which are both 4K/60 FPS on Xbox X. Both aren’t ugly games by any stretch of the imagination. If any console has a shot of hitting those benchmarks while STILL providing a next gen visual upgrade it’s Series X. Even if it’s 4K checkerboard with 60 I’m sure is an option only Series X can do comfortably. 

Not realy. From what Mark Cerny said the system can sustain that peak GPU performance or CPU performance for as long as needed and that dropping a mere 2% on their performance would save over 10% on the electricity. The GPU and CPU float performance mostly because a lot of the time they aren't being fully utilized on most games.

You are looking at X1X, so XSX would be about 2x more powerful, 3x at most so when you keep the same 4k60fps (for games that were designed for 8 gen no-less) you won't have that much jump to next gen. GTS is near 4k60fps on PS4Pro (and 1080p60fps on PS4). We already have very pretty looking game this gen, that is not something in dispute. But again the jump won't be that big if you want to pick a game that is 1080p30fps on PS4 and make it 4k60fps on PS5 or XSX.

Seems like no math or reason will make you believe that the gap between PS5 and XSX won't be one that would allow same game to have double pixel and/or framerate than PS5.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

It depends from the Developers/Publishers.

There can be two indipendent team developing two "different versions" of the same Game, I would say one team for XSX, the other one for XBox One.
Now give me a break if I'm wrong, but Series X and Series S share the same CPU and Velocity Architecture, so when it comes to AI, physics, system collision, gameplay mechanics, etc they should have the same features, or very close to. On the other hand,, from a graphics point of you, you need to scale down Resolution and/or frame rate,geometry, details, draw distance, effects, etc. Now there can be some gameplay elements at a certain point which could teorethically be concerned by a much less powerful GPU ? I don't think so, but even if you find some, developers can just alter that sequence of gameplay, modify it, or remove it. I can't see Lockhart holding back XSX.

Now let's talk about Halo Infinite: is XBox One holding back XSX ? What if the XSX is the Lead Platform(and it is), one team is taking care about the XSX version, and another team the XBox One version ? Not only graphics can be scaled down, but also audio, physics, animations, system collision, and AI, yes AI. As an example, the XSX version could have much much stronger, heavy, complex and sophisticated AI, which couldn't be possible on XBox One or XBox One X. So many other non-graphical aspects of the Game can be scaled down, modified or even removed.

We are talking about a big studio and a monster budget from Microsoft. So, it's up to the Publishers/developers if XSX is held back or not from the less powerful machines.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

goopy20 said:

Its the only reason why MS would say things like "The differences between current and next gen are mainly in the resolution and framerates". And "we don't care if you buy Series X or not". Lets face it, ever since MS announced a 12Tflops console it has felt like there's always been some kind of catch, like the no exclusives for the first 2 years thing. I mean if its Phil's job not to get people excited about Series X, he sure has been doing a fantastic job.

1. They didn't say the main differences will be resolution and frame rate. Phil did say steady frame rates was one of the biggest differences you will feel. Outside of the graphics, of course. He also mentioned SSD benefits.

2. They didn't say that they don't care if you buy a Series X or not. Do you even understand what quotes are?a

3. They never said no exclusives for the first two years of XSX. It was two years from November 2019. aka one year of XSX, at a maximum. How many times do you need to be corrected on this before you stop spreading FUD?

There's a pattern here that has been clear for awhile. Hell, I've already seen you warned and later removed from threads for being a liar regarding quotes like these. Do you never learn? Everything you just said is factually wrong and a quick Google search can tell you that. You can't really claim ignorance if you are making no effort to fact check your FUD.


goopy20 said:

Now, just imagine there was no Series X and MS only announced Lockhart. People would be pissed as 4Tflops doesn't sounds like much of an upgrade. So what do you do? You announce the premium 12Tflops Series X first, while at the same time talk about how the generational jump will be a lot smaller compared to previous gens and lower people's expectations. Then you announce the 4Tflops Lockhart saying it plays the same games as Series X except in 30fps/1440p at a third of the price...

Hot fan fiction bro. Idk how you expect me to relate it to reality. Also thanks to the mid gen refreshes, this jump is pretty small in some areas. The SSD will change things quite a bit. Good thing MS has said as such.


goopy20 said:

We already know that only 1/5 of ps4's sold were pro models. So why would MS use 4k/60fps as the main selling point for Series X, knowing most people don't care about it and 80% will likely opt for the cheaper version? I'm telling yas, we're all getting bamboozled!  

Because Series X can hit 4K60fps?

I don't know what is worse, your ignorant nonsense or your ignorant conspiracy theories.

Again, why are you allowed to even talk Xbox? Can anyone here imagine how quickly someone who is consistenty being negative and lying about things Sony or Nintendo said would be repeatedly banned and eventually barred from even talking about them? Yet with goop the FUDmeister it seems to be fine.