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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Phil Spencer confident after seeing PS5 presentation - Gamelab 2020 interview

 

How do you think MS will perform at the July presentation?

MS will be in a league of its own 5 6.25%
 
MS will do better than the PS5 presentation 14 17.50%
 
MS will do as good as the PS5 presentation 13 16.25%
 
MS will do less well than... 48 60.00%
 
Total:80
kirby007 said:

WRONG=> never ever did he mention that is the only improvement, its the one most clearly felt... stop cherrypicking quotes otherwise im forced to go supporter and ignore all your comments from now on

Call it cherry picking all you want but, besides a lack of gameplay, that's pretty much what we saw at the May presentation. Games that didn't look all that different from what we're already playing because most of those 12Tflops were "wasted" on rendering the games at 4k/60fps. 

Fact is that aiming for 4k/60fps simply doesn't leave much resources left for the stuff that actually matters and 4k/60fps is practically all MS has been talking about when it comes to their next gen games.

Why next-gen consoles shouldn't focus on 'true 4K'

However, when looking at prior transitions, the danger in prioritising 'true 4K' across the board is that too much of those extra GPU resources will be spent painting pixels, with not enough power dedicated to providing an actual leap in graphical fidelity - the stuff that actually matters in defining new experiences associated with a new wave of console hardware.

The big takeaway here from my point of view is clear - next-gen hardware design and marketing shouldn't really be defined by native resolution. It was a key point of differentiation for Microsoft with Xbox One X, for a product very much aimed at a hardcore niche looking to get the best out of their expensive new TV purchases - but the new wave of machines will need the mainstream appeal that propelled PlayStation 4 to over 80 million sales.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-why-next-gen-consoles-shouldnt-focus-on-true-4k-rendering



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Dulfite said:
DonFerrari said:

Aren't you from the group that thinks PS3 to PS4 level of graphics are already good enough?

Nah, I'm from the group that thinks PS3 level graphics are good enough when done with interesting art styles (like most Nintendo games). PS4 graphics are unnecessary, can not tell much difference, and PS5 even less so for me.

But I wasn't talking about graphics here. My issue with PS5 is that it doesn't have a lot of new, exclusive, AAA, full fledged games announced.

If you don't have much interest in graphics and are interested in Nintendo games it is quite easy to see why you wouldn't be much interested in the games show on Sony show.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

zero129 said:
goopy20 said:

Wow! Finally something we agree on :) The games themselves need to impress and not the benchmarks as most people won't know or care if a game is running in 1440p or 4k.

Many people seem to think its a good idea to give us options in next gen games. Like a performance mode with higher fps and visuals mode with better graphics settings. But there's a big difference between graphics settings and overall next gen graphics. Higher graphics settings is just some icing on the cake that doesn't have a real impact on how the game plays, its more like a toggle on/off slider like we're seeing on pc and mid-gen consoles. Overall visual fidelity is more about pushing a console to its limits while trying to get the best visuals on screen. For example, HZD2 now seems to have cloud and storm formations that aren't just there for eye candy, they play a role in the story and isn't something you can just toggle on or off. Same thing with physics, ai, npc count, dynamic day and night cycles and overall world/level design.

Whether you were impressed with Sony's event or not, they did show next gen games that are using the extra horse power not just for a bump in resolution/fps and graphics settings, but for core gameplay mechanics like the portal jumping in Ratchet & Clank, seamless underwater locations in HZD2 etc. Those are the things that set next gen console games apart from pc games at ultra settings and that's what MS should be showing in July.   

Why do you talk so much fudge??. The can be a massive difference in everything from Geometry, Textures,  res, frame rate, amount of npc, physics etc from low settings to high. This icing on the cake is having the option.

You ever played a multiplatform game on pc where you can switch to ultra settings and it magically turns into an entirely different game with more complex geometry, more npc's and better physics? 



sales2099 said:
And Phil’s quotes were as I thought taken out of context. The average gamer will notice the load times compared to this gen. Load times can be brutal. Also the frustration when a game has a ton of action on screen and the game drops resolution to compensate to the point average gamers notice. Same scenario where the frame rate drops to a noticeable dip. Next gen will eliminate those common everyday problems gamers experience.

And that is what Phil meant by the quote.

Even average non-gamer will notice the improvement in the graphics as well =p

And sincerely framedrops haven't been an issue for me the whole gen.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

I'll believe it when I see it. It seems like every year people are overhyping Xbox events and they always end up being average at best. Will this year be any different? I hope so.



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goopy20 said:
kirby007 said:

WRONG=> never ever did he mention that is the only improvement, its the one most clearly felt... stop cherrypicking quotes otherwise im forced to go supporter and ignore all your comments from now on

Call it cherry picking all you want but, besides a lack of gameplay, that's pretty much what we saw at the May presentation. Games that didn't look all that different from what we're already playing because most of those 12Tflops were "wasted" on rendering the games at 4k/60fps. 

Fact is that aiming for 4k/60fps simply doesn't leave much resources left for the stuff that actually matters and 4k/60fps is practically all MS has been talking about when it comes to their next gen games.

Why next-gen consoles shouldn't focus on 'true 4K'

However, when looking at prior transitions, the danger in prioritising 'true 4K' across the board is that too much of those extra GPU resources will be spent painting pixels, with not enough power dedicated to providing an actual leap in graphical fidelity - the stuff that actually matters in defining new experiences associated with a new wave of console hardware.

The big takeaway here from my point of view is clear - next-gen hardware design and marketing shouldn't really be defined by native resolution. It was a key point of differentiation for Microsoft with Xbox One X, for a product very much aimed at a hardcore niche looking to get the best out of their expensive new TV purchases - but the new wave of machines will need the mainstream appeal that propelled PlayStation 4 to over 80 million sales.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-why-next-gen-consoles-shouldnt-focus-on-true-4k-rendering

Sony themselves was chasing 4K when they announced the PS4 Pro and it’s just legitimately confusing to me how it’s not a priority anymore.  

4k adoption is at a all time high and more affordable then ever. I honestly feel you should be demanding Sony target 4K and I can’t help but think of the situation was reversed MS would get a ton of flack for capping their games at 1440p. FPS is debatable and I get that. 30fps is more then enough for certain genres, no question. But 4K should be attainable by next gen or else why we even get 4K TVs for gaming if we can’t get the most of it? Sorry but 4K is better then 1440p, a clear picture matters and it has for several years. If Red Dead Redemption 2 can do 4K 30 FPS then absolutely nothing should stop next gen from doing 4K 30fps. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 01 July 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

Call it cherry picking all you want but, besides a lack of gameplay, that's pretty much what we saw at the May presentation. Games that didn't look all that different from what we're already playing because most of those 12Tflops were "wasted" on rendering the games at 4k/60fps. 

Fact is that aiming for 4k/60fps simply doesn't leave much resources left for the stuff that actually matters and 4k/60fps is practically all MS has been talking about when it comes to their next gen games.

Why next-gen consoles shouldn't focus on 'true 4K'

However, when looking at prior transitions, the danger in prioritising 'true 4K' across the board is that too much of those extra GPU resources will be spent painting pixels, with not enough power dedicated to providing an actual leap in graphical fidelity - the stuff that actually matters in defining new experiences associated with a new wave of console hardware.

The big takeaway here from my point of view is clear - next-gen hardware design and marketing shouldn't really be defined by native resolution. It was a key point of differentiation for Microsoft with Xbox One X, for a product very much aimed at a hardcore niche looking to get the best out of their expensive new TV purchases - but the new wave of machines will need the mainstream appeal that propelled PlayStation 4 to over 80 million sales.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-why-next-gen-consoles-shouldnt-focus-on-true-4k-rendering

Sony themselves was chasing 4K when they announced the PS4 Pro and it’s just mind boggling to me how they and fans are 100% on board with rolling it back. 

4k adoption is at a all time high and more affordable then ever. I honestly feel you should be demanding Sony target 4K and I can’t help but think of the situation was reversed MS would get a ton of flack for capping their games at 1440p. FPS is debatable and I get that. 30fps is more then enough for certain genres, no question. But 4K should be attainable by next gen or else why we even get 4K TVs for gaming if we can’t get the most of it? Sorry but 4K is better then 1440p, a clear picture matters and it has for several years. If Red Dead Redemption 2 can do 4K 30 FPS then absolutely nothing should stop next gen from doing 4K 30fps. 

Guess you confused internally rendered at 4k and output at 4k then.

Very few PS4Pro game rendered 4k, but they mostly outputed 4k with reconstruction and similar techniques.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

This seems to be a pretty one sided problem ;)

You think Sony was going to tell people the majority of games shown were multiplats? Or that Unreal Engine 5 will work amazing on Series X (also informing people that their studios actually use it)?

He is doing his job to inform his community and clear out any FUD. And above all else, grace in your competitions triumph. Instead of “salty silence” when LOU2 breaks records, he congratulates them. Genius. So ya, that’s my opinion when people get defensive about Phil’s tweets, it tells me he’s doing his job. 

Of course it is one sided. Sony doesn't had the urge to claim the games show in May would show on Playstation or need to rob spotlight from MS.

Unless you tell me Sony has no history of reacting/capitalizing on Xbox in the past then maybe you have a point. The used games video from 2013 is the top of the list in terms of where the bar is set. So I don’t think Phil clarifying things with tweets is a big deal by comparison. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

DonFerrari said:
sales2099 said:

Sony themselves was chasing 4K when they announced the PS4 Pro and it’s just mind boggling to me how they and fans are 100% on board with rolling it back. 

4k adoption is at a all time high and more affordable then ever. I honestly feel you should be demanding Sony target 4K and I can’t help but think of the situation was reversed MS would get a ton of flack for capping their games at 1440p. FPS is debatable and I get that. 30fps is more then enough for certain genres, no question. But 4K should be attainable by next gen or else why we even get 4K TVs for gaming if we can’t get the most of it? Sorry but 4K is better then 1440p, a clear picture matters and it has for several years. If Red Dead Redemption 2 can do 4K 30 FPS then absolutely nothing should stop next gen from doing 4K 30fps. 

Guess you confused internally rendered at 4k and output at 4k then.

Very few PS4Pro game rendered 4k, but they mostly outputed 4k with reconstruction and similar techniques.

I’m not technical but I don’t care how you get to 4K so long as it happens. So you agree Sony was chasing 4K but now 1440p is the holy grail? Cmon man that ain’t right. For next gen I’d like to make use of my 4K tv especially since my Xbox X gave me a taste for a few years now. 

Edit: On topic in case mods are reading: that’s why I’m 100% behind MS when they plan to target 4K for their 1st party. It’s a selling point to the brand and for me it’s something next gen that this gen could rarely do. It’s always been the goal and narrative, no flip flopping on my part. 

Edit: I meant to say “native” 4k. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 01 July 2020

Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Of course it is one sided. Sony doesn't had the urge to claim the games show in May would show on Playstation or need to rob spotlight from MS.

Unless you tell me Sony has no history of reacting/capitalizing on Xbox in the past then maybe you have a point. The used games video from 2013 is the top of the list in terms of where the bar is set. So I don’t think Phil clarifying things with tweets is a big deal by comparison. 

Sony used MS own shoot in the foot to promote themselves that is true. Phil uses Sony good news to promote himself. Not really the same thing.

But you may as well remember MS during the start of the gen putting in one of their pages (I think it was Major Nelson doing) some games were exclusive to Xbox One (and they were in fact Sony's first party games), they created the Destiny Fragrance to circumvent Sony marketing deal, among other shenanigans.

You'll hardly see Sony publically caring about Xbox, and certainly not to the extent of Phil. You were one to accuse Sony of reacting to the Xbox reveal of info with the GDC video (even with evidence that the event was pre-recorded and informed to media long before MS reveal of info).

Several games on MS May show are going to be on PS4 (like sports game, AC, etc), but did you see Playstation boss tweeting anything to ensure those games would be on Playstation?

sales2099 said:
DonFerrari said:

Guess you confused internally rendered at 4k and output at 4k then.

Very few PS4Pro game rendered 4k, but they mostly outputed 4k with reconstruction and similar techniques.

I’m not technical but I don’t care how you get to 4K so long as it happens. So you agree Sony was chasing 4K but now 1440p is the holy grail? Cmon man that ain’t right. For next gen I’d like to make use of my 4K tv especially since my Xbox X gave me a taste for a few years now. 

Edit: On topic in case mods are reading: that’s why I’m 100% behind MS when they plan to target 4K for their 1st party. It’s a selling point to the brand and for me it’s something next gen that this gen could rarely do. 

So you already confirmed all that was needed. PS4Pro output at 4k to the TV, PS5 also will output at 4k (even 8k in the future) still that doesn't mean it will be rendered in 4k internally.

I want to use the best image possible on my TV, and if technically rendering at 1440p and reconstructing to 4k gives a better overall IQ than native 4k sure give me reconstructed.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."