Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Leaked Lockhart specs

haxxiy said:
Barkley said:

Less ram than current gen is a puzzling one.

I'm fairly sure NVMe SSD + 10 GB of RAM overwhelms 12 GB + HDD easily.

Well the OP just says 7.5gb of ram, not 10gb. But the article says 7.5gb of usable ram. So I guess it does have more memory than the base xbo/ps4.



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A $199 price would be a buy for me



I wonder how underclocked the CPU is. The 7.5GB of usable RAM is lower than I expected.

Tom Warren's comments imply this version isn't as cheap as everyone expects. PS5 DE will do massive damage if its $399, Lockhart needs to be $199/$249 to be competitive in this case.



One of the ways we can kinda demonstrate the scaling between Lockhart and Series X might be to look at some modern benchmarks. Now this isn't perfect scaling cause as far as I know, we don't have anything that matches 4TFs and 12TFs and even if it did, because of different architectures and etc, it still wouldn't be 1 to 1.

But with that being said, we can take a look at 1650 Super (4.4TF, 4GB Vram) at 1080p vs 2080 Ti (13.5TF, 11GB Vram) at 4k.



You can see with this game and many others, the scaling really isn't that bad just by changing the resolution from 4k to 1080p. Some games do perform noticably worse on the 1650 Super but overall, 1650 Super at 1080p can keep up pretty well against 2080Ti at 4k

https://www.techspot.com/review/1945-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1650-super/

https://www.techspot.com/article/1702-geforce-rtx-2080-mega-benchmark/page4.html

There might be better comparisons out there though.

Last edited by Captain_Yuri - on 26 June 2020

             

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Angelv577 said:
If the cpu is a slghtly underclocked cpu, I see this console to be priced at $399. My xb1X is more powerful in everything except the CPU.

Actually Series S would be more powerful since its APU is using a new GPU architecture. RDNA 2 at 4TF would be much more potent than GCN 4 at 6TF since the performance per clock is significantly higher.

Long story short newer chip, more efficient and more performance despite what numbers say.

I would assume Series X games will target 4k, and Series S for 1080P. Dynamic resolution scaling further down if required.

Last edited by hinch - on 26 June 2020

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PotentHerbs said:

I wonder how underclocked the CPU is. The 7.5GB of usable RAM is lower than I expected.

Tom Warren's comments imply this version isn't as cheap as everyone expects. PS5 DE will do massive damage if its $399, Lockhart needs to be $199/$249 to be competitive in this case.

I'm assuming they aren't going to push for 1440P and higher for next gen games. 7.5GB or GDDR6 is enough for that.

I don't know it will probably do quite well in the US and UK at $300/£279 price point. Assuming PS5 is $450/500 that would be quite attractive price point for a lot of consumers.



Barozi said:
SvennoJ said:

It just tempers expectations yet again for stellar first party games that use every ounce the next gen machines are capable of.

Switchs ports are definitely possible and work since it's on a small size portable screen. 30 fps won't go away next gen on the ps5 and series X. Cross-gen titles hold back next gen titles at first yet after the first 2 years last gen gets left behind. Lockhart I assume is supposed to be around for the entire next gen setting the minimum specs to run on a lot lower.

I mean, we never saw what ps4 pro and XBox One X are truly capable of delivering this gen. No exclusives for the mid gen refreshes.

But since MS releases all their first party games on PC regardless of there being one or two Xbox systems, they can't ignore systems with lower specs.

PS4 Pro and Xbox One X set a new standard which is what a new generation of consoles (in this case a mid-gen upgrade) always does. 7th gen games were for the most part 720p (or even a bit below that) and 30 FPS. X1 were mostly 900p 30 FPS with a few games in the 720p range. PS4 games were mostly 1080p 30 FPS with a few games in the 900p range. PS4 Pro games were mostly 1440p 30 FPS OR 1080p 60 FPS and Xbox One X games were mostly 1600p-1800p 30 FPS OR 1080p 60 FPS.

That's literally what they were capable of, doubling the framerate or resolution (in case of X1X quadrupling the resolution) of games and increasing some effects. Sure, you can always create better looking games at a lower resolution and framerate, but why would you do that? There's a reason no one is doing 240p 20 FPS games anymore (*cough* Zelda Ocarina of Time *cough*).

Many series that used to be exclusively 30 FPS on previous consoles have seen a 60 FPS iteration this gen. This will become the new standard and that alone will limit next gen visuals by quite a bit.

The Unreal tech demo looks great to me at 1440p 30 fps on ps5. Plenty games will be 1440p30 next gen on ps5 utilizing the fast I/O of the SSD. The idea that a 'high end' console is only there to run at higher res / fps just isn't for me I guess.

I have a 65" 4K HDR tv and from the couch (about 12ft eye distance) I can not tell the difference between 1440p upscaled and 4K native, or 1800p checker boarded and 4K native. Native 4K is a waste of GPU power plus many games are absolutely fine at 30 fps. I don't even see the point upgrading from blu-ray for movies at 12ft and 65".

Proper anti aliased 1080p with 4K HUD probably looks perfectly fine at normal couch viewing distance. It's like this whole native 4K push is just for those playing 2ft away from a monitor.



SvennoJ said:

So what happens with games designed to run at 1080p/1440p on Series X with detail cranked up to the max and all 12GB ram used for detail and textures? Or is Series X just going to run Lockhart designed games at 4K/60. First we get mid gen upgrades, now we get pre-gen downgrades :/

I thought you knew better Svennoj.. Scaling can do amazing things.



So wait does this have a disc drive otherwise I can see it being the answer to PS5 (Digital only) and use fee's and subscriptions to subsidize cost. I'm a bit more concerned that now devs have to optimize to even more platforms. Meaning we won't get full use of the hardware in third party games. 7.5GB usable ram is going to stick out like a sore thumb in a few years when next gen goes into full swing.

Talking about console design it would be funny if they essentially halved the Series X and called it a day.

Last edited by hinch - on 26 June 2020

SvennoJ said:
Barozi said:

But since MS releases all their first party games on PC regardless of there being one or two Xbox systems, they can't ignore systems with lower specs.

PS4 Pro and Xbox One X set a new standard which is what a new generation of consoles (in this case a mid-gen upgrade) always does. 7th gen games were for the most part 720p (or even a bit below that) and 30 FPS. X1 were mostly 900p 30 FPS with a few games in the 720p range. PS4 games were mostly 1080p 30 FPS with a few games in the 900p range. PS4 Pro games were mostly 1440p 30 FPS OR 1080p 60 FPS and Xbox One X games were mostly 1600p-1800p 30 FPS OR 1080p 60 FPS.

That's literally what they were capable of, doubling the framerate or resolution (in case of X1X quadrupling the resolution) of games and increasing some effects. Sure, you can always create better looking games at a lower resolution and framerate, but why would you do that? There's a reason no one is doing 240p 20 FPS games anymore (*cough* Zelda Ocarina of Time *cough*).

Many series that used to be exclusively 30 FPS on previous consoles have seen a 60 FPS iteration this gen. This will become the new standard and that alone will limit next gen visuals by quite a bit.

The Unreal tech demo looks great to me at 1440p 30 fps on ps5. Plenty games will be 1440p30 next gen on ps5 utilizing the fast I/O of the SSD. The idea that a 'high end' console is only there to run at higher res / fps just isn't for me I guess.

I have a 65" 4K HDR tv and from the couch (about 12ft eye distance) I can not tell the difference between 1440p upscaled and 4K native, or 1800p checker boarded and 4K native. Native 4K is a waste of GPU power plus many games are absolutely fine at 30 fps. I don't even see the point upgrading from blu-ray for movies at 12ft and 65".

Proper anti aliased 1080p with 4K HUD probably looks perfectly fine at normal couch viewing distance. It's like this whole native 4K push is just for those playing 2ft away from a monitor.

But no one says that you can't have multiple graphical options in next gen consoles, similar to what PS4 Pro and Xbox One X are already offering.

Many enhanced games have three options:

1) Resolution: max resolution (4k on X1X), medium to high effects, 30 FPS

2) Performance: 1080p (or dynamic) resolution, medium effects, 60 FPS

3) Quality: dynamic resolution, max effects, 30 FPS