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Forums - Politics Discussion - (POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE) The agenda and political discussion of Naughty Dog

 

Have politics damaged the quality of ND games

No 39 41.94%
 
Yes 54 58.06%
 
Total:93
vonny said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
I don’t mind that Ellie is gay or that there is a trans character in the game. It’s logical. They exist now, why wouldn’t they exist during a zombie apocalypse? But man the writing is so bad. I won’t get into any spoilers but the only game I can think of more laughably overrated than this is GTA IV. I’ve been at a disconnect with gaming media this entire gen, but this really shows just how out of touch they are imho. Not a big deal I guess though, who gives a shit. My most played game this gen has a 58 on MC lol.

It’s clear there is a strong effort at ND to be as woke as possible with their games and that’s fine. To be honest I have never watched a movie and seen diversity as a negative. I see no reason to not represent as many people as possible, including sexual orientation. If I were a big ND fan I’d be more worried about just the bad writing and narrative. I wasn’t a fan of the ending of LoU but leading up to it the narrative was pretty good. This just has so many issues throughout and the ending really was stupid. At least it wasn’t as stupid as the leaks though.

Worst part is Factions got delayed for this?

There's no trans character in the game, maybe you shouldnt form an opinion around fake leaks.

Yes there is, Lev.



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iron_megalith said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
I don’t mind that Ellie is gay or that there is a trans character in the game. It’s logical. They exist now, why wouldn’t they exist during a zombie apocalypse? But man the writing is so bad. I won’t get into any spoilers but the only game I can think of more laughably overrated than this is GTA IV. I’ve been at a disconnect with gaming media this entire gen, but this really shows just how out of touch they are imho. Not a big deal I guess though, who gives a shit. My most played game this gen has a 58 on MC lol.

It’s clear there is a strong effort at ND to be as woke as possible with their games and that’s fine. To be honest I have never watched a movie and seen diversity as a negative. I see no reason to not represent as many people as possible, including sexual orientation. If I were a big ND fan I’d be more worried about just the bad writing and narrative. I wasn’t a fan of the ending of LoU but leading up to it the narrative was pretty good. This just has so many issues throughout and the ending really was stupid. At least it wasn’t as stupid as the leaks though.

Worst part is Factions got delayed for this?

If it were an old Trans, then yes. How does one become a Trans when resources are scarce and skilled doctors and scientists are probably dying as time goes on? At this point, you'd be more worried about surviving day to die than worrying about your physical appearance. To me, that's just unrealistic.

A person is trans whether they have had the reassignment surgery or not.



iron_megalith said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
I don’t mind that Ellie is gay or that there is a trans character in the game. It’s logical. They exist now, why wouldn’t they exist during a zombie apocalypse? But man the writing is so bad. I won’t get into any spoilers but the only game I can think of more laughably overrated than this is GTA IV. I’ve been at a disconnect with gaming media this entire gen, but this really shows just how out of touch they are imho. Not a big deal I guess though, who gives a shit. My most played game this gen has a 58 on MC lol.

It’s clear there is a strong effort at ND to be as woke as possible with their games and that’s fine. To be honest I have never watched a movie and seen diversity as a negative. I see no reason to not represent as many people as possible, including sexual orientation. If I were a big ND fan I’d be more worried about just the bad writing and narrative. I wasn’t a fan of the ending of LoU but leading up to it the narrative was pretty good. This just has so many issues throughout and the ending really was stupid. At least it wasn’t as stupid as the leaks though.

Worst part is Factions got delayed for this?

If it were an old Trans, then yes. How does one become a Trans when resources are scarce and skilled doctors and scientists are probably dying as time goes on? At this point, you'd be more worried about surviving day to die than worrying about your physical appearance. To me, that's just unrealistic.

Lets say this is true.

Nathan Drake commits mass genecide in everyone of his games. Totally unrealistic. Outside of a few jokes no one bats eye. Why is everyone assessing this abby character?



John2290 said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

I went into this thread expecting the OP to be written by a far-right member of the forums, and there it is. I don't know if you can call yourself an advocate for minimal government interference when you are defending the Bolsonaro government left and right, currently one of the least democratic world leaders in power. But well, here you are.

It's amazing how easy people get triggered by just seeing a character with a personality different than the decades-old clichés that we see everywhere. If your character "role" wouldn't fit in a Super Mario game, then it's the gay black trans queer SJW agenda destroying the video game industry. It makes absolutely no sense how the portrayal of minorities would damage the quality of THE GAMEPLAY. If Ellie was a man, with the exact same gameplay and story, no one would be complaining.

Horizon ZD has a female character that works, tomb raider reboots the same, The Witcher 3 in Ciri, Yeniffer, Triss and most other female leads, A plague tale innocence if you want a character more in the age group, Detroit Bceome human in Kara, all the female characters in divinity OS 1 and 2, Sadie in RDR and to a lesser degree Remake 2 in Claire. You know why these characters work, because they are crafted to fit situationally, are well written to extremely well written, they make the player believe and keep immersion stable, they have good motivations and bad without being one sided, they are flawed and enoigh to be relatable to men or women.

Ellie is a character in line with these, maybe even up there with the best but Dina is terrible and Dina constantly pulls down Ellies character. From what I've seen so far Abby looks like she is going to be a complex (hint from a spoiler if it's true) and (so far) well written and situationally fitting.

You can't ask a player or viewer to watch something like the force awakens and not have them go "what the fuck is this, why is the universe bending around this perfect bitch? Why are the obstacles in her just melting without her effort, why is she so perfect" even if it's in the back of their minds or conversely something like Captain Marvel where the character looses all likability for much the same reason as Ray but also she's just a cunt on top. These are forced characters, you can't force any character to be perfect nor can you force a female character into the role written for a man in the same way you can't write a real upper class, posh British character and then have him played by an American actor, it doesn't work. It's forced. 

No one gives a shit about the lesbians, no one gives a shit about yours or any character sexuality (or race or gender), it's 2020  it's when it's forced and thrown in your face that is the problem, people had a problem with every film leading up to this past decade problem adding a love interest even in the weiredest of situations but that sold then and people got sick of it. 

I think they've crafted in Ellies sexuality perfectly here, it's well implemented, it's believable, it's endearing in the scenes that count but in their haste they forgot to write a good love interest for her and instead have written one of the worst side kick characters in recent video games  she's so unlikable when she actually doea start speaking about her past or future desires you just roll your eyes and hope she gets bitten by a zombie so you as Ellie can shoot the bitch. 

And I'll just add, people need to stop patting people on the back for being gay, it hurts gays more than helps when people so widely accept now. Stop making female, gay or minority characters that can do no wrong or don't fit the situation at hand. Media need to stop forcing it cause it causes resentment and you can see in the thread above. Some of it is down to bad writers indeed and bad actors but more often than not it's forced by a man in a suit. 

Also, in what Universe has DonFerrari become "far" right. Do you even know what far right means? Only someone on the far left would see him as an authoritarian neo fascist. He's at most a few steps right of center and maybe a little nationalistic, he's on the right. Not the far right but I guess the goal posts have been moved so far that even people left of center are now o  the right. Mind boggling. 

Why would the resentment be about anything than badly written characters? Btw the no gives a shit about lesbian or sexuality , race or gender, its 2020 comment not only is that exactly what this thread is talking those same, there would not be largest civil rights movement since 60's currently happening... in 2020.



FarleyMcFirefly said:

When most reviews are about how progressive the narrative is, and how little they talk about actual gameplay, I'd say there is a problem. 
I will say this. (IN MY OPINION) Identity politics have zero place in pop culture. There is a time and place for everything. Considering how divided everybody already is, injecting politics into games or movies for no real reason only takes away a possible common ground between all of us. No matter who you are, what you believe in, we should all be able to enjoy movies and games. Yes artists can do as they please, but people should also be able to not purchase it or be a fan of it without being called _phobic or _ist.

Im slowly getting to the conclusion some people actually want the conflict. Or if you just accept their demands without asking.

The ones asking for equality are usually the ones that want special privileges the most.

The ones asking for tolerance are the most intolerant of all.



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One thing I havent seen mentioned here is that to add insult to injury, ND lied on purpose on the traillers, creating scenes that do not exist in game or swapping characters or models to give you the impression the game is going to be about one thing when actually it is about another.
It was on purpose, several times. This to me was the final straw.



John2290 said:
Xxain said:

Why would the resentment be about anything than badly written characters? Btw the no gives a shit about lesbian or sexuality , race or gender, its 2020 comment not only is that exactly what this thread is talking those same, there would not be largest civil rights movement since 60's currently happening... in 2020.

For the simple reason human beings don't like when other groups get preferential treatment, it's ingrained in human DNA and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon so the best we can do is advocate for equality on an even playing feild and no tribes should form, no fighting should occur. Give everyone that even playing feild and help those who need it on an individual basis. As for characters causing resentment just read the thread above, do these people look like they are being pushed towards acceptance ot hate? Acceptance is when noone chats about shit in public and feels a need to shout over someone else, you don't see straight people having pride parades or shouting over everyone else inclusion in a film that is written for gay people. That is true acceptance.

And what, a civil right movement for gay people? It already happened socially or are you advocating for superiority and extra benifets over everone else... Everyone should just bow down and praise people for being gay? That's not acceptence, it's forced acceptance and some gay people have gotten addicted to that attention and preferential treatment, you can't blame them, who wouldn't love parades dedicated to one of your natural qualities, I love my Paddies day parades dedicated to Irishness omce a year. People already accept en mass and being gay is not something that need a civil rights movment in the west. Gays have a whole month dedicated to flauting their gayness, is that not enough? Having every brand fly your banner and hundreds of millions of people support and praise you with a month of partying in your honour, if you're comfortable with your sexuality you shouldn't feel the need to hide away or conversely flaunt it to the world... it's 2020.

If you want to help, then change things in Russia, China, The middle east etc, that is where gays and minorities are truly oppressed, some to horrific degrees. Move there and advocate or join the military and hope for a post in the middle east or nothern Africa where you can really help. 

Maybe I was hallucinating but did we not just have a landmark decision for gay civil rights in the US? Seems like there's still some work to be done. 

About 20% of people in the US think homosexuality shouldn't be accepted in society. That's one in every 5 people. If one in five people still thought interracial relationships shouldn't be accepted in society I would sure as fuck think that's a problem that should be talked about and still needs work. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_attitudes_toward_homosexuality#Measuring_attitudes_toward_homosexuality

Overall this idea of "It's good enough why can't all you minorities shut up now?" is ridiculous. In a world where 1 in 5 people don't think you should be accepted for who you are how can we just say "good job everybody, now lets never talk about gay people again".

Last edited by Torillian - on 20 June 2020

...

Hey guys since I came here I never picked up how to do the hidden spoilers tag. Anybody able to help?



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EnricoPallazzo said:
One thing I havent seen mentioned here is that to add insult to injury, ND lied on purpose on the traillers, creating scenes that do not exist in game or swapping characters or models to give you the impression the game is going to be about one thing when actually it is about another.
It was on purpose, several times. This to me was the final straw.

See this bugs me. Halo 5 had misleading marketing and they paid for it. Sony’s marketing makes it seem like this is Ellie’s journey. When it most certainly is not (not just hers anyway). It’s deliberate misleading and it’s frustrating that Sony gets a pass. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
EnricoPallazzo said:
One thing I havent seen mentioned here is that to add insult to injury, ND lied on purpose on the traillers, creating scenes that do not exist in game or swapping characters or models to give you the impression the game is going to be about one thing when actually it is about another.
It was on purpose, several times. This to me was the final straw.

See this bugs me. Halo 5 had misleading marketing and they paid for it. Sony’s marketing makes it seem like this is Ellie’s journey. When it most certainly is not (not just hers anyway). It’s deliberate misleading and it’s frustrating that Sony gets a pass. 

Its not even a scene editing you know? Like merging dialogues from 2 separate conversations. Its literally different characters and models. In the trailer you se one character in a dialogue with ellie, in the game is another one. Another dialogue in game hapoens in the past as a flashback with a 5 year younger character, but in the trailer the model is 5 years older to mislead you thinking this oerson would follow you in the journey. Months before release, not years. Its just fucked up.