Forums - Politics Discussion - (POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE) The agenda and political discussion of Naughty Dog

Have politics damaged the quality of ND games

No 28 39.44%
 
Yes 43 60.56%
 
Total:71

I know that a lot of us want to discuss the agenda and political orientation of Naughty Dogs and its devs. And in reality it would be silly not to expect that on a studio that big there aren't a big number of employees that hold a strong political opinion be it conservative or liberal.

We also know that since the creation of the first The Last of Us ND have been changing and being more progressive. And I know that pisses a part of the fanbase.

I'll be upfront and say I'm minarquist (so minimal government and zero interference on market and society, so people are free to have their moronic opinions without the government saying no, but they are also free to trade and marry whoever they want) and don't like identity movements (not because they don't have the right to demand to be heard or be threated fairly, but because of the manipulation leaders do).

Still I can say that it is easy to see that this change on ND is visible in their games, we have Lost Legacy with 2 strong women (one of them being a black woman that was annoying on UC4, but well annoying people exist), we had Left Behind that builds up Ellie relationship and discover in a great way (yep I have no problem with all black shows or shows that portray homoaffective relationship, if the show is good I'm fine, I just avoid the explicit ones or that is geared toward an audience because usually they cover things I don't care or relate).

With all that in mind and not having played TLOU2 yet I'm not worried about the game being damaged by the politics of the studio (well I was worried by the time of the leaks, but some reviewers that have addressed it not being true portray) and now I'm fine.

Please try not to spoil things, but since I know a lot will post the leaks and what not I'm tagging the title just in case. Be civil on the discussion please. IF YOU NEED TO POST SPOILER PLEASE USE THE SPOILER TAG ON YOUR POST PLEASE.

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 19 June 2020

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

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I'll just say that I'm not a fan of the direction that Naughty Dog has been headed down for awhile now. Ever since Bruce and Neil forced Amy Hennig out of the company and stole Uncharted 4 from her, I've seen a definite directional shift at the company. Uncharted 4 wasn't too bad, though definitely not as good 1-3, but you could already see the seeds of Naughty Dog's directional shift in that game, starting with Nadine (who Amy Hennig claims didn't exist in her Uncharted 4). A badass female character isn't a bad thing, but it has to feel believable, and Nadine crossed into the realm of unbelievable when she kicked the shit out of both Nathan and Sam at the same time later in the game. The directional shift continued with Uncharted Lost Legacy, with the controversial return of Nadine in an even larger role, as well as many having concerns about Chloe's sex appeal being toned down.

But TLOU 2 takes this directional shift to the extreme. It not only seems to be the most "woke" AAA game ever made, it is up there with some of the woke indies. I'm not even a TLOU fan, I only like Uncharted, but from an outsiders perspective, I think if I was a fan of the first game, I would be pretty pissed at the direction this game takes the story in, the things that are done to the characters from the first (I have read a full plot overview that seems to be accurate). I won't go into any details on this since this isn't a spoiler thread, and I won't be responding to anybody in this thread because I just don't have the energy to debate this stuff with anybody.

I'll just say that I hope the rumors that Sony gave the Uncharted IP to Sony San Diego and Sony San Mateo are true. I don't want to see Uncharted die, nor do I want to see it continue under Naughty Dog, considering the direction that Naughty Dog is moving in as a studio. Hopefully if that rumor is true, the 2 studios can bring back what made Uncharted 1-3 so special, rather that is in the form of a new series about Cassie Drake or further spinoffs focused on side characters like Nadine/Chloe, Sam/Sully, or Charlie Cutter doesn't matter to me so much, I just want good writing and good characters that don't come across as forced. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 19 June 2020

I'd say yeah but I doubt it's entirely their fault just the climate in media of so many asshole cash ins and forced social issues.

Anyway, I don't mind the lesbian shit or whatever else, that's the direction they went and how they wanted the characters to be but what I do mind is the trivial, cringey teen drama shit and dialogue, gay or not gay. It's the real downside to the game for me so far.



 

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shikamaru317 said:

I'll just say that I'm not a fan of the direction that Naughty Dog has been headed down for awhile now. Ever since Bruce and Neil forced Amy Hennig out of the company and stole Uncharted 4 from her, I've seen a definite directional shift at the company. Uncharted 4 wasn't too bad, though definitely not as good 1-3, but you could already see the seeds of Naughty Dog's directional shift in that game, starting with Nadine (who Amy Hennig claims didn't exist in her Uncharted 4). A badass female character isn't a bad thing, but it has to feel believable, and Nadine crossed into the realm of unbelievable when she kicked the shit out of both Nathan and Sam at the same time later in the game. The directional shift continued with Uncharted Lost Legacy, with the controversial return of Nadine in an even larger role, as well as many having concerns about Chloe's sex appeal being toned down.

But TLOU 2 takes this directional shift to the extreme. It not only seems to be the most "woke" AAA game ever made, it is up there with some of the woke indies. I'm not even a TLOU fan, I only like Uncharted, but from an outsiders perspective, I think if I was a fan of the first game, I would be pretty pissed at the direction this game takes the story in, the things that are done to the characters from the first (I have read a full plot overview that seems to be accurate). I won't go into any details on this since this isn't a spoiler thread, and I won't be responding to anybody in this thread because I just don't have the energy to debate this stuff with anybody.

I'll just say that I hope the rumors that Sony gave the Uncharted IP to Sony San Diego and Sony San Mateo are true. I don't want to see Uncharted die, nor do I want to see it continue under Naughty Dog, considering the direction that Naughty Dog is moving in as a studio. Hopefully if that rumor is true, the 2 studios can bring back what made Uncharted 1-3 so special, rather that is in the form of a new series about Cassie Drake or further spinoffs focused on side characters like Nadine/Chloe, Sam/Sully, or Charlie Cutter doesn't matter to me so much, I just want good writing and good characters that don't come across as forced. 

Not sure if the shift to another studio will be good, we love Uncharted the way it is and going for another studio may perhaps protect the storyline from SJW and whatnot, but what about the graphics, gameplay and story in general? ND have been unsurpassed this gen.

John2290 said:
I'd say yeah but I doubt it's entirely their fault just the climate in media of so many asshole cash ins and forced social issues.

Anyway, I don't mind the lesbian shit or whatever else, that's the direction they went and how they wanted the characters to be but what I do mind is the trivial, cringey teen drama shit and dialogue, gay or not gay. It's the real downside to the game for me so far.

The problems with human being is that they are human being. So a teenager even during a time of war may behave like exactly that a teenager. Hormones still exists, but yes I'm on a phase of my live that I hate teenager drama.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Nm



 

 

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shikamaru317 said:

I'll just say that I'm not a fan of the direction that Naughty Dog has been headed down for awhile now. Ever since Bruce and Neil forced Amy Hennig out of the company and stole Uncharted 4 from her, I've seen a definite directional shift at the company. Uncharted 4 wasn't too bad, though definitely not as good 1-3, but you could already see the seeds of Naughty Dog's directional shift in that game, starting with Nadine (who Amy Hennig claims didn't exist in her Uncharted 4). A badass female character isn't a bad thing, but it has to feel believable, and Nadine crossed into the realm of unbelievable when she kicked the shit out of both Nathan and Sam at the same time later in the game. The directional shift continued with Uncharted Lost Legacy, with the controversial return of Nadine in an even larger role, as well as many having concerns about Chloe's sex appeal being toned down.

But TLOU 2 takes this directional shift to the extreme. It not only seems to be the most "woke" AAA game ever made, it is up there with some of the woke indies. I'm not even a TLOU fan, I only like Uncharted, but from an outsiders perspective, I think if I was a fan of the first game, I would be pretty pissed at the direction this game takes the story in, the things that are done to the characters from the first (I have read a full plot overview that seems to be accurate). I won't go into any details on this since this isn't a spoiler thread, and I won't be responding to anybody in this thread because I just don't have the energy to debate this stuff with anybody.

I'll just say that I hope the rumors that Sony gave the Uncharted IP to Sony San Diego and Sony San Mateo are true. I don't want to see Uncharted die, nor do I want to see it continue under Naughty Dog, considering the direction that Naughty Dog is moving in as a studio. Hopefully if that rumor is true, the 2 studios can bring back what made Uncharted 1-3 so special, rather that is in the form of a new series about Cassie Drake or further spinoffs focused on side characters like Nadine/Chloe, Sam/Sully, or Charlie Cutter doesn't matter to me so much, I just want good writing and good characters that don't come across as forced. 

You hate Nadine but want to see a Nadine and Chloe game again?

I agree Nadine was unbelivable and a forced character, I gave up on LL because of the dialouge made me cringe one to many times, perhaps the writers have just lost it or been replaced, I feel it in TLOU2 too, it's not the main dialouge but the character chatter... ya know. Perhaps they have different writing teams and one is incompetent. 



 

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Wrong thread, bro. Edit or Spoiler tag before you get moderated.  

Last edited by John2290 - on 19 June 2020

 

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sales2099 said:
Based on what I’ve seen and read this year, I can’t say I’m a fan of NDs direction. The “strong woman anti straight white men narrative” that many left wingers preach is controversial to say the least. 
Yes I don’t plan on playing this game, and people who disagree may say it’s because my politics clash which is why I disagree. No kidding. Games should be politically neutral (like LOU 1) with notes from either side of the spectrum but not firmly commit to either. ND has to acknowledge that their fans in countries that loved this game are conservative as well as liberal. Hence the metacritic user review scores.

Edit: Removed the possible spoiler since you removed the post altogether.

And about gaming being neutral that isn't really needed. Several games are made exactly on political atrition, and agree rarely it is on benefit of conservative. Usually conservative or powerful are threated as biggots and whatnot while the rebels and progressive angels. But usually artists are more progressive as well. No biggie, I can take progressive storyline all day if well made. Because yes there is a lot of right wing scumbag. Sure I also like when the odd one show the hypocrisis of the progressist powerful and how their attemps of socialism type of society in the game crumble down (Horizon in a way do it).

Last edited by DonFerrari - on 19 June 2020

duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

John2290 said:
sales2099 said:

Wrong thread, bro. Edit or Spoiler tag before you get moderated.  

Nm then, better edit yours too. 



 

 

sales2099 said:
John2290 said:

Wrong thread, bro. Edit or Spoiler tag before you get moderated.  

Nm then, better edit yours too. 

Done.



 

China Numba wan!!