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Forums - Politics Discussion - United States should downsize the population by ending all immigration and creating incentives for having fewer kids.

 

Should united states downsize it's population.

Yes 14 18.67%
 
No 59 78.67%
 
Maybe 2 2.67%
 
Total:75
Snoopy said:
sundin13 said:

Prove it.

I've already posted information that automation may grow the job pool and increase wages, and you have provided no rebuttal.

I've posted information already and didn't see your post. Here is an article that is about A.I. expert who predicts 40% of jobs could be replaced..

https://fortune.com/2019/01/10/automation-replace-jobs/

Also, check the following expert.

"A growing number of detractors—including Elon Musk, who has warned about the power of artificial intelligence—worry that automation could disrupt entire communities and disproportionately affect low-income workers."

Again, that provides an incomplete picture. Yes, some jobs will be lost to automation. However, automation will also create new jobs. Many experts believe that these gains will far surpass the losses. This means that we do not need to plan for a sudden decrease in available jobs, but instead we need to plan for an increase in jobs and a transition in available jobs:

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/07/automation-replaced-800000-workers-then-created-3-5-million-new-jobs/

"A Deloitte study of automation in the U.K. found that 800,000 low-skilled jobs were eliminated as the result of AI and other automation technologies. But get this: 3.5 million new jobs were created as well, and those jobs paid on average nearly $13,000 more per year than the ones that were lost."

Note: This is basically a carbon copy of a post I made earlier. If you didn't see it at first, that is fine, but you could easily go back and read it and respond to it instead of making me repeat myself...



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Ka-pi96 said:
Kristof81 said:
Isn't the whole higher education system in the US dependent on immigration?

If it is then why is it such a rip off for American people?

I mean, in Europe immigrants pay the full amount while local citizens get discounted rates (or in some countries don't even pay anything). But in the US if the locals are already paying full price (and like three times the European full price too!) then why would immigrants be needed for it?

The difference is that U.S. students are eligible for financial aid and loans from the government. Foreign students pay full sticker price. For public universities in-state residents pay an even lower rate than students who come from out of state. Unless your family is loaded it is rare for any US student to pay sticker price of tuition or room and board. Most likely though you will be strapped with momentous student loan debt (I am experiencing that right now for graduate school).

On topic: One of the most ridiculous ideas I have ever heard. A few Republicans and conservatives push this argument but even the mainstream GOP recognizes immigration as a net positive for the country. The U.S.A. also has tons of empty space. Only a few of our cities have a population over a million.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWECYYOSo

Please Watch/Share this video so it gets shown in Hollywood.

Immigration was open borders until the 1930s. Immigrants bring hard workers, kids, and new ideas. The only drain on society is welfare. So eliminate that and problem solved. Immigrants buy things so they increase economy. They open new business too. 

therefore they create business and boost economy. Stopping welfare is the only solution to population growth. 



Snoopy said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Damn, where to put all those MAGA then?

Lol, if they committed a terrible crime such as murder and rape they should be killed imo, but since we are PC maybe we can strike deals with other countries. We can transfer the criminal in their prison since US prisons are full. we can pay the country for housing them and we can accept 1 person from their country that meets certain requirements to become a US citizen or at least give them a green card.

You are full of bright ideas.  Are you sure you don't have a job in the current administration as a policy advisor?



NightlyPoe said:
vivster said:

Or even better, undemonize abortions so that some abandoned children stop happening in the first place.

Better dead than an orphan?  That's harsh.

Only harsh when you use a bad definition of "alive".

But to humor you, yes. Better to have a dead clump of cells than a ruined life of someone who is actually conscious.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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NightlyPoe said:
vivster said:

Only harsh when you use a bad definition of "alive".

But to humor you, yes. Better to have a dead clump of cells than a ruined life of someone who is actually conscious.

Denial of humanity is the first step in any atrocity.

Again, true, but only if you have a bad definition of "humanity".

The pimples on my ass have more human cells than the average fertilized egg, I don't see you worshipping them as humans. Though, you're of course free to do so.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

The US doesn't have tons of "empty space". Just about 5% of the lower 48 are wilderness untouched by humans. And the less is said about the UK and Europe, the better. Unless you mean urban sprawl creeping into rural areas, but then that'd mean some other stretch of land is going to be ruined elsewhere unless productivity increases enough to compensate for it (and even the green revolution is a dubious achievement long-term, considering the effects of top-soil degradation, imbalance in the phosphorus-nitrogen cycles and climate change).

Of course some people would be quick to jump in and defend Europe claiming forestation has grown in the last decades etc. but... I don't think Europe used to be a monoculture of symmetrically planted Norway spruces before humans. Ideally, you would want a population density similar to that of Australia, Finland or the Baltic countries to actually achieve a sustainable, zero growth civilization. But maybe it could be more as long as we develop quality artificial meat and opt for vertical farms.



 

 

 

 

 

NightlyPoe said:
vivster said:

Again, true, but only if you have a bad definition of "humanity".

The pimples on my ass have more human cells than the average fertilized egg, I don't see you worshipping them as humans. Though, you're of course free to do so.

A pimple isn't a unique and irreplaceable human.

Every pimple is exactly as unique and irreplaceable as an egg cell and a sperm cell. The human body is magical, it can just constantly produce new things and just as easily destroy them too. Not sure why something that can be reproduced without effort within a month would be called "irreplaceable".



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Snoopy said:
Cyran said:

No, Cutting immigration to nothing would be horrible for long term future of the country and incentives for not having children I don't believe would be effective and if you took away tax credits for children it would just result in more children going hungry because they have parents who cant afford to feed them.  

I do wish there was a way to incentive people who cant even afford to take care of them selves from having children but I cant come up with a single way that would both work and be ethical.

I want to point out that child support laws are gender neutral, it is completely base on child custody and income.  I work with a man that receives child support from his ex-wife.  Both Woman and Men can get jail time for contempt of court if they refuse to abide by a court order to pay child support.

Most women tend to benefit from this situation. Women and men should have to a hold a job and not just one person after a divorce. Also there shouldn't be any alimony as well. The only thing that each owe is money for the Child.

And the child just goes free to fend for themselves?



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Snoopy said:
This opinion is unpopular with a lot of people I've talked to, but I don't care. There are over 320 million people living in the United States and the rate of growth is exponential. There is not enough jobs, money or resources to go around especially when automation is ramping up and killing the need for humans. Truck Drivers, Teachers, Retail, Restaurants / Fast food, warehouses, farming, some IT jobs (especially because of cloud services), and I can go on all day. I hate saying this opinion especially because I know a lot of people seek to be here in the United States, but this can't sustain for very long. Also, this should apply to the world, but since I live in the United States, I can only focus on our country.
 
I might be wrong and someone can point it out. Most of this is just me speaking from the top of my head.

Not really, this is a fairly mainstream thing that is one of the core values of modern political parties, such as the Greens. Sustainability as opposed to irresponsible growth across finite landspace - even more finite given that the destruction of ecosystems reduces the world's ability to filter out pollutants. It's mostly the conservative minded right-wing neoliberals who don't like the idea, and they're the figurative heels dragging as society progresses. But job markets are scalable, it's not a flat rate. The reason for the drop in jobs is the same as the last 200 years of history (longer, actually, just accelerated since industrialization), automation reduces the need for routine labour-related jobs. The economy has progressed leftward to adjust for these changes by lowering the proportion of population required in the workplace (mostly, we don't work children and old people anymore) and the lowering of the work week (we're less than half of what we were a few generations ago); and we're able to do this by the increase of rights among the working class and social programs.

Technological progress is eliminating routine jobs, this is an inevitability, and societies that don't embrace the change because of conservative values of "I think future generations need to work as hard as mine" is going to be the downfall of those backward thinking nations. Also hypocritical since those "Future generations MUST work as hard as us" since they do not work as hard as their great grandfathers did. routine work shouldn't be missed when it's gone in sufficiently adjusted societies; if it is, then your country is to far to the right and needs to progress leftward in order to keep up with time's arrow.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.