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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 8th Gen to 9th Gen: Visual Analysis Thread

Captain_Yuri said:
-img

PS4 has less antialiasing and has less resolution 



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Just look how much progress we has on graphic 

Playstation 2

Playstation 3

Playstation 4

Playstation 5



CGI-Quality said:
hunter_alien said:

Same here... I don't know what people are talking about, R&C, Resi 8, and H2 all looked amazing, and seemed to be a bigger jump in quality than what we have seen with Killzone SF, Ryse SoR and Infamous SS. And that even with a 1080p/30fps stream. Everything felt so natural and believable when compared with this generation, and this is only the tip of the iceberg. Sure the new spiderman looks "meh" and the indies are more of a diversity push, than anything else (still loved most of them), but all-in-all I loved what I have seen thus far, and can't wait to see more.

At this point on I really can't wait to see what MS's 1st party studios are working on, and man I would kill just to see a glimpse of Gears 6 (yeah, I know, we won't get that this year).

Yeah, the actual visual jump is bigger than what came from the PS4 over the PS3. The issues are people are generally satisfied with how things look, so they don't really see (or understand) how it could get better (while not realizing we have a very long way to go).

When someone says he is satisfied with the level of graphics on PS3 and there is no point in improving it I'll just ignore when same person say he didn't see a significant jump in graphics or that the game could be run on older HW.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Mnementh said:

Yeah, well, see, that's the point. You were floored because you are involved into such stuff and know how much work was going in and how much scrutiny was needed to get this improvement. I wasn't floored, as I know this is just a fleeting moment in a game I might play for hundred hours. The reason I was impressed by Ratchet&Clank and Kena was, that they showed gameplay. Sure, Kena showed no gameplay that is impossible today, but it showed nice gameplay which probably keeps me entertained. For Horizon I am excited, because I know what gameplay to expect, but they showed little to none. The graphical improvements will not keep me in excitement over a 100 hour play-session. There might be moments when I think: this scenery looks nice, or this object looks great. But most of the time it will not be on the front of my mind, as I play.

Sorry, I know how much work goes into this kind of thing, but I also always ask myself: what if some of that work would've gone into gameplay improvements. And for some games it does. Again R&C and Kena look exciting for this exact reason. But the graphical wow that keeps you blowed away all through the game is probably a thing of the past. Alone the talk about 'watch the 4K trailer to see the improvement' makes it clear, that the improvements aren't that obvious anymore.

Your two posts confused so many things.

For the regular game sure it doesn't matter that every single strand of hair was individually draw or the meshes on the cloth. But on the visual impact that will matter and he will notice without knowing what exactly had him so impressed.

And people on the team that make the graphics and the gameplay are two different groups so you don't have "hey we have to stop improving graphic to improve gameplay" that is one stance from Nintendo fans that is the most annoying.

Look at the images HollyGamer posted for R&C. The jump from PS2 to PS3 is so massive, the polygon count increased, the fur got fur texture, better lighting and much more details in the background. The difference is so noticable. Then to PS4 the difference is still there, especially details in the background, but overall less noticeable. And then again on PS5. Yes, technically the jump is still the same, but it is not anymore such a defining difference.

I think - as many people expressed - the thing that keeps people impressed is the fast transition in R&C. Which is really something. Also applying so much physics to general objects in the area. This both is a difference I think is much more important for gamers, it will make their experience much more enjoyable, interacting with the environment and fast transitions making the game spicier. The visual improvements may gommainly unnoticed.

And I am aware that different people work on different things. But for a company it means resources. If they put a different focus, you can hire more people for gameplay improvements. There is a major disproportion in the development teams. Look at the credits for really old games. I talk 90s games. Back then the team had about proportional workforce for graphics, music, programming, story and gameplay. But since then the teamsize for graphics grew disproportionally, while the other area saw only little growth in the allocated resources (aka manpower). Now the graphcis department makes often about 80% of the teamsize. Just bring it a bit more into balance.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

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As someone that actually plays games I can tell you the differneces shown here will not be noticable while you play.



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Mnementh said:
DonFerrari said:

Your two posts confused so many things.

For the regular game sure it doesn't matter that every single strand of hair was individually draw or the meshes on the cloth. But on the visual impact that will matter and he will notice without knowing what exactly had him so impressed.

And people on the team that make the graphics and the gameplay are two different groups so you don't have "hey we have to stop improving graphic to improve gameplay" that is one stance from Nintendo fans that is the most annoying.

Look at the images HollyGamer posted for R&C. The jump from PS2 to PS3 is so massive, the polygon count increased, the fur got fur texture, better lighting and much more details in the background. The difference is so noticable. Then to PS4 the difference is still there, especially details in the background, but overall less noticeable. And then again on PS5. Yes, technically the jump is still the same, but it is not anymore such a defining difference.

I think - as many people expressed - the thing that keeps people impressed is the fast transition in R&C. Which is really something. Also applying so much physics to general objects in the area. This both is a difference I think is much more important for gamers, it will make their experience much more enjoyable, interacting with the environment and fast transitions making the game spicier. The visual improvements may gommainly unnoticed.

And I am aware that different people work on different things. But for a company it means resources. If they put a different focus, you can hire more people for gameplay improvements. There is a major disproportion in the development teams. Look at the credits for really old games. I talk 90s games. Back then the team had about proportional workforce for graphics, music, programming, story and gameplay. But since then the teamsize for graphics grew disproportionally, while the other area saw only little growth in the allocated resources (aka manpower). Now the graphcis department makes often about 80% of the teamsize. Just bring it a bit more into balance.

Neither of the games that had good scores or good looks suffered on gameplay because they were pretty or had a lot of resources on it, that is just a fallacy throw for not liking the gameplay on that game. It is possible that these games that you don't like the gameplay had more resources put on gameplay than a Mario game that you like.

And I looked at the image, again the difference becomes more on the details and static images make it harder to see. But you naturally notices the differences and when getting used to it and go back to older you see that something is amiss. That happens to me all the time when I rewatch something of older gen that I found to be fantastic and now I can see the gaps.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Spindel said:

As someone that actually plays games I can tell you the differneces shown here will not be noticable while you play.

So you already played these games? Tell us more.

And please explain these implication of "actually plays games".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

I also agrees with most folks, the DR is real. But I was expecting this, that most games will look like Star wars Battlefront 2 on max graphics with 4k resolution on PC.

If we look at god of war which is probably the best looking game this gen, there's simply not much improvement you can make, mostly just higher res textures as the games textures are abit low, 60fps at 1440p and better view distancing (just way to much fog) and make Freyas hair look better. More than this you simply not gonna notice. More improvements game devs can make is to get rid of all the blurs (Bookah, depth of field, motion blur) as this just ruins the game. I also think there can be some improvements in AA too.



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Trumpstyle said:

I also agrees with most folks, the DR is real. But I was expecting this, that most games will look like Star wars Battlefront 2 on max graphics with 4k resolution on PC.

If we look at god of war which is probably the best looking game this gen, there's simply not much improvement you can make, mostly just higher res textures as the games textures are abit low, 60fps at 1440p and better view distancing (just way to much fog) and make Freyas hair look better. More than this you simply not gonna notice. More improvements game devs can make is to get rid of all the blurs (Bookah, depth of field, motion blur) as this just ruins the game. I also think there can be some improvements in AA too.

You probably watched different trailers if you can't see the difference against God of War. Horizon 2 looks leaps above it.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Mnementh said:

Look at the images HollyGamer posted for R&C. The jump from PS2 to PS3 is so massive, the polygon count increased, the fur got fur texture, better lighting and much more details in the background. The difference is so noticable. Then to PS4 the difference is still there, especially details in the background, but overall less noticeable. And then again on PS5. Yes, technically the jump is still the same, but it is not anymore such a defining difference.

I think - as many people expressed - the thing that keeps people impressed is the fast transition in R&C. Which is really something. Also applying so much physics to general objects in the area. This both is a difference I think is much more important for gamers, it will make their experience much more enjoyable, interacting with the environment and fast transitions making the game spicier. The visual improvements may gommainly unnoticed.

And I am aware that different people work on different things. But for a company it means resources. If they put a different focus, you can hire more people for gameplay improvements. There is a major disproportion in the development teams. Look at the credits for really old games. I talk 90s games. Back then the team had about proportional workforce for graphics, music, programming, story and gameplay. But since then the teamsize for graphics grew disproportionally, while the other area saw only little growth in the allocated resources (aka manpower). Now the graphcis department makes often about 80% of the teamsize. Just bring it a bit more into balance.

Neither of the games that had good scores or good looks suffered on gameplay because they were pretty or had a lot of resources on it, that is just a fallacy throw for not liking the gameplay on that game. It is possible that these games that you don't like the gameplay had more resources put on gameplay than a Mario game that you like.

And I looked at the image, again the difference becomes more on the details and static images make it harder to see. But you naturally notices the differences and when getting used to it and go back to older you see that something is amiss. That happens to me all the time when I rewatch something of older gen that I found to be fantastic and now I can see the gaps.

I actually don't like Mario or Jump&Runs in general. You are assuming I am arguing down to you as a Nintendo fan willing to put down Sony. But I still feel as a DOS gamer in heart, I got away from gaming as the general direction was in a way that didn't mesh with me before Wii introduced me to console gaming. And I appreciate a console game as much as I did a good DOS game in the 90s. This is not about Nintendo or Sony or this crap. This is about games. And I appreciate that Sony does make good games. I don't think Horizon is a bad game, and R&C in the presentation looked outright awesome. But not because of graphics, but because of the other stuff that felt like a step ahead. And that is why I was impressed by Kena, but have worries about Project Athia.

Sony presented some good games, that is out of the question. But they are often good for other reasons than graphics. And diminishing returns are a reality, just look again at HollyGamers pictures of R&C through the gens and tell me the wow-effect is the same for the difference of the PS4/PS5-comparison, as it is for the PS2/PS3-comparison. Look through this thread how often people said that you should look at 4K-streams to see the difference. This all should tell you: people need to pay a lot more attention to notice and appreciate the differences in visuals, than was needed back then in PS2 gen. This simply is diminishing returns.

It is funny that multiple posters say they are not impressed, but others saying: just look at this detail or at a 4K-stream to see the difference, while at the same time denying that diminishing returns are relevant already. These posters that aren't impressed are simply a result of the diminishing returns. That happens. That some people have learned themself in looking at some visual details still notice the improvements does not change that. Because diminishing returns means less and less people are impressed.

And again, that is not a shot against Sony, the same is happening for XSX and Nintendo and PC and Stadia. Stadia also showed off what theoretical is possible (still not present in actual games), but I wasn't impressed. And the Stadia machines have very beefy hardware.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]