Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

Snoopy said:
Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

Are the Animal Crossing , FF7 remake, Resident Evil 3  Japanese-centric game?

RE3 isn't an exclusive and FF7 remake is timed and will be on PC / Xbox. Not to mention those games aren't japanese centric, they has western appeal in mind.

Lol.Was it important to you?

By the way, Eastern Europeans and Russians seem to make a better game than North Americans these days.



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Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

With console finally moving to that standard perhaps in a couple years PC will also have SSD as minimum (or similar solutions as you put with RAM) so more changes mainly on how game is made and played can be seem.

There is no guarantee or forced requirement for games to use an SSD as a minimum on next-gen consoles, it's entirely up to the developer.

Just like there was no guarantee or forced requirement for 4k on the "4k consoles" aka, Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro.

Just like there was no guarantee of a force 1080P requirement for the Full HD consoles. Aka Xbox One and Playstation 4.

Just like there was no guarantee of 720P on the HD consoles, aka. Xbox 360 and Playstation 3.

There is absolutely no guarantee that all games, even a majority of games will leverage the SSD's benefits to the maximum extent theoretically possible on *any* platform...

And that applies to every other feature like 4k, 8k, 60fps, 120fps, Ray Tracing, Tessellation, Motion Controls, Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, Cloud features or whatever else we can think of.

It is entirely up to the developer... And not all developers are going to prioritize the extra computational capability of the Xbox Series X or the SSD bandwidth of the Playstation 5.

Will there be games that do use those aspects in their entirety? Certainly, but until we have the games starting to get released, I am going to reserve judgement so we can ascertain what the game development trends ends up being... Because it's a very disruptive 12 months for game development as there is a paradigm shift occurring with how games are being rendered and developed.

Hynad said:

Go and tell that to someone who's not a simple enthusiast:



He is talking in hypotheticals, he says it himself.


Of course Sony nor Microsoft is forcing it. They know it is counter productive.

Also we know that a lot of multiplatformers aren't cutting edge or pushing the performance envelop.

But when the consoles have RTX on then, SSD and the average PC also have them it is more likely that the games that push the envelop will use that (not the limit on PS5 but a good average SSD and more RTX implementation).

And as said by other poster with the exclusives showing the full power and what they can get by exploring the limits the AAA multiplats won't really be able to sit still because they would look severelly lacking otherwise.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Oneeee-Chan!!! said:
Snoopy said:

RE3 isn't an exclusive and FF7 remake is timed and will be on PC / Xbox. Not to mention those games aren't japanese centric, they has western appeal in mind.

Lol.Was it important to you?

By the way, Eastern Europeans and Russians seem to make a better game than North Americans these days.

And funny enough Resident Evil is a franchise from the time Japan dominated the market (and 3 was still from that time, from the 4th and forward we could say they changed to appeal to the west) and FF7 as well. And the remakes are very much still having the feeling of the originals for me.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

I hope this new SSD tech will open the door to a resurgence in flight sims. Ace combat 7 was good, especially in VR, yet the detail is held back. I assume by the limitations of streaming. Now imagine a jet fighter game where you fly low over a detailed world like Spiderman, flying through the urban canyons. Or through real canyons like in the Unreal tech demo with all that detail.

Space games can have a comeback as well, games like Elite Dangerous should run a lot better next gen. New Wipeout or F-Zero with all that detail flying by instead of turning it into a huge motion blur to hide the lacking detail. RTS games where you can instantly jump over the battle field and get perfect views at any zoom level.

No longer do these games have to take a back seat in the visual department. The faster the SSD to GPU streaming, the less pop in and visible lod changes. GTA6 where it doesn't look like an ugly mess when diving down from high in a jet plane. Just Cause 5 air combat action and so on.

It should also help a lot with split screen. Less to keep in RAM for each view so no problem getting further apart and streaming in the assets for each view in time. A comeback of split screen modes would be welcome.



Hynad said:
Pemalite said:

He is talking in hypotheticals, he says it himself.



You are confusing things here. He is saying the solutions in the PS5 is unlike anything on PC, and he is hoping all those companies will work together to bring something similar to the PC space.

Again, it seems like a very hard thing to do for you to admit something outside of the PC world is outclassing it.

The quote from you was a ramble about direct storage.



DonFerrari said:

Of course Sony nor Microsoft is forcing it. They know it is counter productive.

Also we know that a lot of multiplatformers aren't cutting edge or pushing the performance envelop.

But when the consoles have RTX on then, SSD and the average PC also have them it is more likely that the games that push the envelop will use that (not the limit on PS5 but a good average SSD and more RTX implementation).

And as said by other poster with the exclusives showing the full power and what they can get by exploring the limits the AAA multiplats won't really be able to sit still because they would look severelly lacking otherwise.

RTX is an nVidia patented technology, consoles don't have it.

Rather than assert anything is fact, we should wait on the games.

I am not proclaiming anything will sit still, there is certainly going to be improvements in every direction, it happens with every console generation.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
Hynad said:

Go and tell that to someone who's not a simple enthusiast:



He is talking in hypotheticals, he says it himself.

I am not sure of the benchmarks, but from what I understood from the Linus video, even with 4 Gen 4 NVMe M.2 in a raid plugged into the PCIe port, due to the bottlenecks in how the OS (even Linux) handles the I/O requets, it looks like the PS5 custom SSD @5.5GBps, with the I/O magic using dedicated chips, it seems to beat even PCs today, and that's why it's making noise even with guys like Tim Sweeny from Epic.

Here are the custom chips the PS5 seem to be using:

  • Dedicated DMA Controller

  • Dedicated Decompression Chip

  • 2 I/O Co-processors

  • On chip SRAM

  • Coherency chip ( which link to the GPU Scrubbers in the diagram as Cerny informed )

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/g87er9/the_io_complex_and_the_systematic_elimination_of/

In terms of brute numbers, even if the Aorus offers 15GBps, in the end it seems like the architecture of PCs is limited for this use case, and the change in architecture in consoles may feed back into the design of gaming PCs in the future. 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14888/gigabytes-aorus-gen4-aic-ssd-8-tb-launched-up-to-15-gbs

Here is the linus thread which I found interesting, discussing this subtle point:

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242553/linusive-disappointed-and-embarrassed-myself-re-ps5-ssd/1/



Pemalite said:
Snoopy said:

ORI dev confirmed what I said. Third parties aren't going to take full advantage of the faster SSD because they are not going to exclude Xbox One series x or PCs that are still using HDD.

Bulk of PC's sold today, even low-end netbooks use SSD's.
Xbox Series X is also using an SSD.

Most devices today, including phones and tablets... You guessed it. Use an SSD.

What's your source?



A thing of beauty, strength, and grace lies behind that whiskered face.

Oneeee-Chan!!! said:
Snoopy said:

RE3 isn't an exclusive and FF7 remake is timed and will be on PC / Xbox. Not to mention those games aren't japanese centric, they has western appeal in mind.

Lol.Was it important to you?

By the way, Eastern Europeans and Russians seem to make a better game than North Americans these days.

Nothing beats COD and Halo, but nice try.



https://www.ign.com/articles/ori-ps5-xbox-series-x-resolution-load-time

Here is the ori developers thoughts on this stuff. I don’t really take too much stock in it, as I’m guessing their studio will remain Xbox focused (so agenda), but basically he lays out what he thinks. Ps5 first party games won’t have load times, but third party still will. Third party games will have better resolution/frame rate on Xbox, shorter load times on ps5.



Snoopy said:
Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

Lol.Was it important to you?

By the way, Eastern Europeans and Russians seem to make a better game than North Americans these days.

Nothing beats COD and Halo, but nice try.

Everything beats CoD and Halo, but cool story.



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