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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MS Executive says Devs will need to learn how to work around Slower SSD on XSX

Snoopy said:
Oneeee-Chan!!! said:

Lol.Was it important to you?

By the way, Eastern Europeans and Russians seem to make a better game than North Americans these days.

Nothing beats COD and Halo, but nice try.

Everything beats CoD and Halo, but cool story.



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Shiken said:
Snoopy said:

Nothing beats COD and Halo, but nice try.

Everything beats CoD and Halo, but cool story.

Fast pace shooting and fun multiplayer action with your bros over a cold miller light. Nothing beats that.



Snoopy said:
Shiken said:

Everything beats CoD and Halo, but cool story.

Fast pace shooting and fun multiplayer action with your bros over a cold miller light. Nothing beats that.

Saying anything is over drinking cold water is not much of a bar.



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

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Snoopy said:
Shiken said:

Everything beats CoD and Halo, but cool story.

Fast pace shooting and fun multiplayer action with your bros over a cold miller light. Nothing beats that.

A good night of sleep beats that, a good work out session beats it, well I could probably list dozen of stuff that do.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

this narrative feels like the chad multiplayer gamer vs the virgin solo player or the other way around depending on the perspective



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Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

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goopy20 said:
EricHiggin said:

Nah. Devs will just target the lowest common denominator. So the PS5 SSD advantage will mean nothing, along with the XBSX GPU advantage.

I wonder how this might change the marketing scheme's going forward?

Maybe that's true. But you also have to consider that if the ps5 really is so much easier to develop for and we're seeing the same or even bigger gap in install base as we're seeing with ps4 vs Xone, 3rd party developers will probable be lining up to make ps5 exclusives. Games like GTA and COD are always going to sell on Xbox too, but look at games like Monster Hunter World. It didn't even sell 1m copies on Xbox and over 4m on ps4.

gergroy said:
https://www.ign.com/articles/ori-ps5-xbox-series-x-resolution-load-time

Here is the ori developers thoughts on this stuff. I don’t really take too much stock in it, as I’m guessing their studio will remain Xbox focused (so agenda), but basically he lays out what he thinks. Ps5 first party games won’t have load times, but third party still will. Third party games will have better resolution/frame rate on Xbox, shorter load times on ps5.

As per this dev, if third party will only bother focusing on the lowest common denominator, then the PS5 SSD won't be a benefit, but neither would the XBSX GPU. So either both boxes have certain higher specs for nothing, other than for first party titles, or those specific advantages will be put to use by third party in some instances.



EricHiggin said:
goopy20 said:

Maybe that's true. But you also have to consider that if the ps5 really is so much easier to develop for and we're seeing the same or even bigger gap in install base as we're seeing with ps4 vs Xone, 3rd party developers will probable be lining up to make ps5 exclusives. Games like GTA and COD are always going to sell on Xbox too, but look at games like Monster Hunter World. It didn't even sell 1m copies on Xbox and over 4m on ps4.

gergroy said:
https://www.ign.com/articles/ori-ps5-xbox-series-x-resolution-load-time

Here is the ori developers thoughts on this stuff. I don’t really take too much stock in it, as I’m guessing their studio will remain Xbox focused (so agenda), but basically he lays out what he thinks. Ps5 first party games won’t have load times, but third party still will. Third party games will have better resolution/frame rate on Xbox, shorter load times on ps5.

As per this dev, if third party will only bother focusing on the lowest common denominator, then the PS5 SSD won't be a benefit, but neither would the XBSX GPU. So either both boxes have certain higher specs for nothing, other than for first party titles, or those specific advantages will be put to use by third party in some instances.

I rather think both made good choices for their systems and that it will be meaningfull.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Dallinor said:
Pemalite said:

Bulk of PC's sold today, even low-end netbooks use SSD's.
Xbox Series X is also using an SSD.

Most devices today, including phones and tablets... You guessed it. Use an SSD.

What's your source?

First we can gather the marketshare of the most popular vendors... Let's use wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_computer_vendors

So that means Lenovo, HP, Dell, Apple, Acer and Asus which accounts for 81.3% of the PC OEM market.

Then we trod over to each individual manufacturers website... Which is:

www.lenovo.com
https://store.hp.com
or www.dell.com

From there I will use something like Dell.com as it's got a decent sort function by hardware components.
And they only have 3x notebooks with a mechanical hard drive, the Dell Inspiron 14 5000 and 15 5000 models.

But then they have 23x models with a 128GB, 256Gb or 512GB SSD aka the Dell Inspiron 14 5000, 15 5000, XPS 13, Inspiron 15 7000, XPS 15, various 2 in 1's and so forth.

Even the shitty budget netbooks like the Dell Inspiron 15 3000 with an AMD A6 9220 has a 128GB SSD.

Are there PC's with mechanical drives being sold? Shit yes. But that are certainly the exception and not the norm.

Even Anandtech recognizes for end-user systems that SSD's are the main seller, not mechanical drives.
Mechanical drives still hold relevancy in cold storage/workstation/server markets where their capacity and long-term reliability without being powered on is highly valued.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12075/best-consumer-hdds

And I quote: "Data storage requirements have kept increasing over the last several years. While SSDs have taken over the role of the primary drive in most computing systems, hard drives continue to be the storage media of choice in areas dealing with large amount of relatively cold data."

padib said:
Pemalite said:

He is talking in hypotheticals, he says it himself.

I am not sure of the benchmarks, but from what I understood from the Linus video, even with 4 Gen 4 NVMe M.2 in a raid plugged into the PCIe port, due to the bottlenecks in how the OS (even Linux) handles the I/O requets, it looks like the PS5 custom SSD @5.5GBps, with the I/O magic using dedicated chips, it seems to beat even PCs today, and that's why it's making noise even with guys like Tim Sweeny from Epic.

Here are the custom chips the PS5 seem to be using:

  • Dedicated DMA Controller

  • Dedicated Decompression Chip

  • 2 I/O Co-processors

  • On chip SRAM

  • Coherency chip ( which link to the GPU Scrubbers in the diagram as Cerny informed )

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/g87er9/the_io_complex_and_the_systematic_elimination_of/

In terms of brute numbers, even if the Aorus offers 15GBps, in the end it seems like the architecture of PCs is limited for this use case, and the change in architecture in consoles may feed back into the design of gaming PCs in the future. 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14888/gigabytes-aorus-gen4-aic-ssd-8-tb-launched-up-to-15-gbs

Here is the linus thread which I found interesting, discussing this subtle point:

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242553/linusive-disappointed-and-embarrassed-myself-re-ps5-ssd/1/

I don't actually disagree. But if you still want the absolute best sheer sequential throughput, you can achieve that on PC, but expect to pay out of the nose for it.

Obviously there is allot that goes on "behind the scenes" when it comes to storage and Sony has invested a shit ton into working on that... If anything that will mean the rest of the industry will take note and start resolving those issues going forth, it's a good thing for the entire industry.





--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

padib said:

Either that, or I'll start making games myself like I've always dreamed of doing.

Out of curiosity, a rig that could compete with the kind of massive data streaming from SSD to CPU/GPU, what would it look like today? If you know, I'd be curious.

You would be relying on RAID. And with that... Exponential increases in costs and complexity, it's out of reach for pretty much every average user.
Although some notebooks, especially workstation class notebooks will allow you to Raid a heap of SSD's.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

You can also go to say bestbuy's website which I'd consider to be one of the most popular stores that casual consumers would go to in order to purchase a laptop, search by lowest price and find that majority of the laptops have SSD/Flash storage of some kind. Some do have hard drives but most that have hard drives also have SSD storage for the OS. Only a few that are new are hard drives only.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/all-laptops/pc-laptops/pcmcat247400050000.c?id=pcmcat247400050000&qp=condition_facet%3DCondition~New%5Esoldout_facet%3DAvailability~Exclude%20Sold%20Out%20Items&sp=%2Bcurrentprice%20skuidsaas



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850