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Forums - Sony - Unreal Engine 5 Announced + PS5 Demo

Soundwave on 20 May 2020
kirby007 said:
setsunatenshi said:

It was a misinterpretation of what was being shown by people that don't even speak that language. As I pointed out (with resources) it was an mp4 video being played off a laptop. It's laughable how that gets spun around to that being the performance on that said laptop. You could play the same video in a f'ckin celeron and integrated gpu laptop and would still look the same.

The more you keep spreading that FUD, more people will be confused and call it 50/50.

It's not 50/50, we have it straight from the top man himself how the demo was recorded, so just stop it. If and when they are able to run it from a laptop then you can go ahead and compare performance. As far as we know, this demo was never ever running outside of the PS5.

Epic China engineers' interview, if you know Chinese you can confirm it by yourself.

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1kK411W7fK

  • 53:00, he said his laptop could run the tech demo at 1440p 40fps+ in labs, optimization target is 60fps for next-gen.

  • 2:07:00, SSD bandwidth isn’t as that high as ppl said, not need a strict spec SSD (decent SSD is ok).

  • They mentioned this 2-3 times in the interview: CPU has to keep up with the data processing.

  • Someone at TGFCer forum said, the engineer just confirmed to him: RTX 2080 GPU laptop but forgot the exact SSD model, perhaps 970 EVO Plus. (http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-8307013-7-1.html 94th post)

Edited: Another guy ‘tutomos’ also translated these two parts in Resetera forum. https://www.resetera.com/threads/tim-sweeney-on-ue5-the-nanite-and-lumen-tech-powering-it-will-be-fully-supported-on-both-ps5-and-xbox-series-x-and-will-be-awesome-on-both.206223/page-9

Edited #2: Video was removed, someone said the streamer took it down by himself, UE official channel will upload it’s own version later.

Edited #3: Some warriors talked about Tim Sweeney's video player twitter, here is reference/explain, he didn’t know or misunderstood what happened in the interview talk, dodged the 1440p40 in labs fact: https://www.resetera.com/threads/tim-sweeney-on-ue5-the-nanite-and-lumen-tech-powering-it-will-be-fully-supported-on-both-ps5-and-xbox-series-x-and-will-be-awesome-on-both.206223/post-34233429

im afraid you just basing yourself on what sweeney said without questioning his interest is foolish

People are in serious denial over this, lol. 

Fact is an Epic official also confirmed (in English if you prefer) the same demo runs fine on an RTX 2070 Super GPU. 

Fact is AMD's GPUs have been underperforming against older Nvidia GPUs for many years now too. 

This being true really shouldn't be all that surprising unless you drink the corporate sales pitch kool-aid. 

Nvidia has better graphics engineers and makes better GPUs than AMD and the AMD part in the PS5 isn't terribly impressive to begin with (only 36 CUs). 

A fucking graphics engineer is not going to mistake a demo with a video of a demo ... that's just idiotic. 



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chakkra on 20 May 2020
CGI-Quality said:


Carmack weighs in

Do you know exactly what he means by that? I think I have an idea but I´m no expert.



kirby007 on 20 May 2020
CGI-Quality said:
chakkra said:

Do you know exactly what he means by that? I think I have an idea but I´m no expert.

I have some ideas, but that side of tech isn't my thing. I'm better with the details of graphics hardware (such as TMUs, Bus Interface, and CUDA). What can be deduced though is the pipeline is changing and much of the work is going to be offloaded to the SSD (in NVMe form). This is why some people mistakenly expect the consoles to 'beat' the PC next gen, while not understanding that the PC can already do that, and when it is provided with those types of SSDs in the market, will actually do it better.
John Carmack
@ID_AA_Carmack
·
10 apr.
I upgraded to an AMD 3990 system. I was drawn to the 64 cores / 128 threads, but the first performance test I ran is for IO read speed. Previously, I had my data on an older Intel SATA SSD, which I moved over to the new system. The SATA performance is better even with
John Carmack
@ID_AA_Carmack
the old drive, getting 506 MB/s with unbuffered IO. Copying the data to the VP4100 M.2 PCIE4 SSD then reads at 4330 MB/s! Using normal buffered IO, the SATA is at 464 MB/s cold, the M.2 is 2410 MB/s cold, and both are 6500 MB/s from file cache. Unbuffered is now a big deal --
3:44 a.m. · 10 apr. 2020·Twitter Web App
17
Retweets
265
Vind-ik-leuks
John Carmack
@ID_AA_Carmack
·
10 apr.
Als antwoord op
@ID_AA_Carmack
nearly doubling speed instead of just 10% difference on initial read, and unbuffered striped over two drives should be faster than copying from the file cache, which is pretty remarkable.


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Soundwave on 20 May 2020
CGI-Quality said:
chakkra said:

Do you know exactly what he means by that? I think I have an idea but I´m no expert.

I have some ideas, but that side of tech isn't my thing. I'm better with the details of graphics hardware (such as TMUs, Bus Interface, and CUDA). What can be deduced though is the pipeline is changing and much of the work is going to be offloaded to the SSD (in NVMe form). This is why some people mistakenly expect the consoles to 'beat' the PC next gen, while not understanding that the PC can already do that, and when it is provided with those types of SSDs in the market, will actually do it better.

AMD's RDNA 7nm processors can't even outperform Nvidia's 12nm Turing line which is like 2 years old architecture now. 

Nvidia Ampere 30-series is going to wipe the floor with AMD, lets be honest. 

AMD is doing wonderful things on the CPU side versus Intel mostly in terms of offering nice performance for cost solutions, but on the GPU side they don't match up very well versus Nvidia. 



DonFerrari on 20 May 2020
CGI-Quality said:


Carmack weighs in

Will also not be accepted by the people saying a notebook with worse SSD, RAM and GPU will outperform PS5, because Carmack was also bought by Sony. They bought all the heads of all developers so we can only believe some low level employees that are out there to tell us the truth.

And from the presentation from Cerny we know that some parts (like the audio part) will bypass some of the I/O controls like the SPUs in PS3.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari on 20 May 2020
the-pi-guy said:
Soundwave said:

If that can run at 40 fps on a laptop using a older Turing based GPU and a garden variety SSD, it's not a great look for Sony or AMD.

Are you new to console gaming?  The things you're saying are mostly true, but it's like you're completely new to console gaming as a concept.  
Sony isn't in trouble because Nvidia has some GPU's that are better.  It's rare for a console to even get close to a high end PC. 

The PS4's GPU was beaten by a 1.5 year old Nvidia GPU itself, quite handily.  

And the gap with the Xbox One's GPU was substantially larger.    

PS3's GPU was based off a Nvidia GPU that released a 1.5 year old earlier.  

So you're acting like this is some bad look on Sony, when it's been the norm for quite a while.  So... welcome to 2006?

Not to mention, it's hard to say if it's bad news for AMD.  I can almost guarantee even the Xbox Series X GPU will be beaten by something else in AMD's line up.  

And yes, AMD's tended to be behind for a while.  So it's nothing new there.

Still their revenue and profit is improving quite a bit, so not sure how much trouble he thinks AMD is, also PS4 have done well on HW but even more in SW royalties besides PS+ (40M+ subs at 60USD per year or 2.4B of revenue with a small cost associated). They are all doomed right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 20 May 2020
CGI-Quality said:
curl-6 said:

Anybody trying to sell you something (in this case, PS5 and UE5) is obviously going to portray it in only a positive light, and in a collaboration like this, Epic's not going to say to come out and say "this isn't as good as what you'll get on Xbox Series X or a high spec PC". There's a certain etiquette to these kind of partnerships.

That's just it though (at least regarding the PS5 in conjunction with Xbox). No matter your allegiance, despite being the inferior platform, the PS5 will be able to handle things in ways that the XSX will not. That doesn't change the overall superiority of the latter. And right now, they're going to talk about the device with the fastest SSD because it matters with a demo like this and even a PC like mine doesn't have a drive that fast. Of course, that will change in the next 365 days, but right now, that's how it is.

So etiquette plays less of a role here than you think. It isn't strictly down to being polite.

I get that. It's just that, as you would know better than me, SSD isn't the only thing being showcased in the demo, a lot of it will also be GPU bound. When you've partnered with someone to show off their system naturally you will concentrate on the strengths of that system, that's just how it works. If this was a demo of UE5 running on Xbox Series X that they'd partnered with Microsoft for, it's not like Sweeney would talk about the SSD dependent aspects being better on PS5.



curl-6 on 20 May 2020
CGI-Quality said:
curl-6 said:

I get that. It's just that, as you would know better than me, SSD isn't the only thing being showcased in the demo, a lot of it will also be GPU bound. When you've partnered with someone to show off their system naturally you will concentrate on the strengths of that system, that's just how it works. If this was a demo of UE5 running on Xbox Series X that they'd partnered with Microsoft for, it's not like Sweeney would talk about the SSD dependent aspects being better on PS5.

I know the procedure, but I also know that it's not a simple matter of just wanting to brag about the PS5 due to any partnership. Other devs have made similar claims, and based on the hardware anatomy, it all lines up.

I know. I'm more talking about folks interpreting Sweeney's comments as PS5 being stronger than XSX or a top end PC due to SSD secret sauce, and that we should bear in mind when when people are trying to sell us on something they will obviously highlight its best aspects above all.



DonFerrari on 20 May 2020
curl-6 said:
CGI-Quality said:

I know the procedure, but I also know that it's not a simple matter of just wanting to brag about the PS5 due to any partnership. Other devs have made similar claims, and based on the hardware anatomy, it all lines up.

I know. I'm more talking about folks interpreting Sweeney's comments as PS5 being stronger than XSX or a top end PC due to SSD secret sauce, and that we should bear in mind when when people are trying to sell us on something they will obviously highlight its best aspects above all.

At least in VGC the most we have seem is that SSD will bridge the gap. Haven't seem a claim that PS5 is stronger than XSX and the top end PC.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

curl-6 on 20 May 2020

I want to emphasize I'm not trying to downplay PS5 here, I'll state again for the record I am impressed by its results in this demo.