Forums - Gaming Discussion - How much do you care about the graphical leap between consoles at this point?

m0ney said:
CGI-Quality said:

It is viable as long as the market seeks it (which it continues to).

Yes, people buy the Nintendo Switch for the 720p @ 30fps experience.

I didn't realize that the market can't have multiple interests. Crazy me...

Darwinianevolution said:
CGI-Quality said:

It is viable as long as the market seeks it (which it continues to). Like I said, we're nowhere close to that point — be it financial or technical.

Besides, you said: "Meh. Graphics cannot be improved that much at this point". That is factually incorrect no matter what standpoint you take.

I meant it in the sense of deminishing returns. If a developer spends tens of thousands of man hours and millions of dollars to craft a game to be the most beautiful and graphical astonishing game ever made, it's not going to sell much more than a game that just looks great. At some point, the investment ins not worth it, so why bother improving the graphics?

Why bother moving to new hardware at all? We may as well stay with PS4s and XB1s. 

Yeah, when that sort of decline in interest happens, we can talk about the "some point". In 2020, we're not anywhere close to that.



                                                                                                             

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CGI-Quality said:
HollyGamer said:
I am sure we will not see a another crazy evolution or improvement not because the hardware is weak , but the requirement to achieve the goal is close and already achieved. We just need to improve performance, and focusing more on Smart AI for enemies, and NPC. Super fluid animation, crazy fluid weather effect , Seamless world transition and open world with extra detail full of living NPC. Also living , breathing world and super detail physics .

You have to know what the goal is before a proclamation like that can be made and you can't just improve performance without considering cosmetics. It is very much a system of 0s and 1s.

The goal is to achieve photorealistic graphic .which i can say current gen  already can do decent job. Game engine like Frostbite engine, Unreal, Capcom Resident Evil Engine with scanning etc already did fantastic job.



I care to some extent I guess, but graphics have never really been among the most important thing to me in video games in general. I also don't really get the same sensation of awe anymore that I got back when we went from 3rd to 4th to 5th to 6th to 7th generation of consoles. Each new generation felt like a big leap at the time, and while I still find myself just taking in the view in new games as well from time to time, the feeling of seeing something unprecedented and previously impossible doesn't really exist anymore, or only happens extremely rarely.



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HollyGamer said:
CGI-Quality said:

You have to know what the goal is before a proclamation like that can be made and you can't just improve performance without considering cosmetics. It is very much a system of 0s and 1s.

The goal is to achieve photorealistic graphic .which i can say current gen  already can do decent job. Game engine like Frostbite engine, Unreal, Capcom Resident Evil Engine with scanning etc already did fantastic job.

Nope. We are not close to true photorealism [in gaming] either and very few studios are actually chasing that. Graphics are naturally progressing in that direction, but I can tell you for certain that is not the end goal for the majority of these devs. 



                                                                                                             

CGI-Quality said:
HollyGamer said:

The goal is to achieve photorealistic graphic .which i can say current gen  already can do decent job. Game engine like Frostbite engine, Unreal, Capcom Resident Evil Engine with scanning etc already did fantastic job.

Nope. We are not close to true photorealism [in gaming] either and very few studios are actually chasing that. Graphics are naturally progressing in that direction, but I can tell you for certain that is not the end goal for the majority of these devs. 

https://wccftech.com/sweeney-need-40-tflops-render-photo-realistic-dynamic-environments-humans-require-computing-power/



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CGI-Quality said:
m0ney said:

Yes, people buy the Nintendo Switch for the 720p @ 30fps experience.

I didn't realize that the market can't have multiple interests. Crazy me...

Darwinianevolution said:

I meant it in the sense of deminishing returns. If a developer spends tens of thousands of man hours and millions of dollars to craft a game to be the most beautiful and graphical astonishing game ever made, it's not going to sell much more than a game that just looks great. At some point, the investment ins not worth it, so why bother improving the graphics?

Why bother moving to new hardware at all? We may as well stay with PS4s and XB1s. 

Yeah, when that sort of decline in interest happens, we can talk about the "some point". In 2020, we're not anywhere close to that.

"Why bother moving to new hardware at all? We may as well stay with PS4s and XB1s. "

Honestly, I'd be fine with having PS4/XBOne level of power for another decade. The most demanding game my PC can play is Doom 2016, and that's enough to play my library and my emulators wonderfuly.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

CGI-Quality said:
HollyGamer said:

The goal is to achieve photorealistic graphic .which i can say current gen  already can do decent job. Game engine like Frostbite engine, Unreal, Capcom Resident Evil Engine with scanning etc already did fantastic job.

Nope. We are not close to true photorealism [in gaming] either and very few studios are actually chasing that. Graphics are naturally progressing in that direction, but I can tell you for certain that is not the end goal for the majority of these devs. 

I doubt additional texture to the triangle and texel will be noticeable on 4k resolution on normal eye.  



HollyGamer said:
CGI-Quality said:

Nope. We are not close to true photorealism [in gaming] either and very few studios are actually chasing that. Graphics are naturally progressing in that direction, but I can tell you for certain that is not the end goal for the majority of these devs. 

https://wccftech.com/sweeney-need-40-tflops-render-photo-realistic-dynamic-environments-humans-require-computing-power/

You know that aides my point, correct?

Using it, let's have a look at snippets (it's a 2016 article that I remember vividly)...

"That's mostly thanks to the increased computing power, which is often measured with TFLOPS (tera floating-point operations per second). How far are we from proper photo-realistic graphics, then, in terms of TFLOPS? According to Epic's Founder Tim Sweney, quite a bit"

Ignoring the pointless piece on teraflops, the amount of computing power to achieve true photorealism is years away.

The next part (a favorite considering my extensive history and education with The Uncanny Valley phenomenon) furthers this...

"Humans are another story entirely, though, as everyone familiar with the uncanny valley hypothesis already knows. It's not just a matter of computing power, but they need to behave and react in a believable way; for that, Sweeney reckons we'll need some sort of algorithm that's still decades away from being realized"

Do you know what The Uncanny Valley entails? I'll be happy to discuss if you don't, because it plays a HUGE role in this. In both cases, he states what I state — photorealism is plenty of years away. Even if we use the teraflop argument (which is silly, but let's bite), your consoles are nowhere close to 40 teraflops and the best gaming card you can buy (a TITAN RTX) is still a massive chunk behind that. 

Not happening any time in the 2020s, but we will get closer, yes.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 08 May 2020

                                                                                                             

CGI-Quality said:
HollyGamer said:

https://wccftech.com/sweeney-need-40-tflops-render-photo-realistic-dynamic-environments-humans-require-computing-power/

You know that aides my point, correct?

Using it, let's have a look at snippets (it's a 2016 article that I remember vividly)...

"That's mostly thanks to the increased computing power, which is often measured with TFLOPS (tera floating-point operations per second). How far are we from proper photo-realistic graphics, then, in terms of TFLOPS? According to Epic's Founder Tim Sweney, quite a bit"

Ignoring the pointless piece on teraflops, the amount of computing power to achieve true photorealism is years away. Many years away.

The next part (my favorite considering my extensive history and education with The Uncanny Valley phenomenon) further this...

"Humans are another story entirely, though, as everyone familiar with the uncanny valley hypothesis already knows. It's not just a matter of computing power, but they need to behave and react in a believable way; for that, Sweeney reckons we'll need some sort of algorithm that's still decades away from being realized"

Do you know what The Uncanny Valley entails? I'll be happy to discuss if you don't, because it plays a HUGE role in this. In both cases, he states what i sate — photorealism is plenty of years away. Even if we use the teraflop argument (which is silly, but let's bite), your consoles are nowhere close to 40 teraflops and the best gaming card you can buy (a Titan RTX) is still a massive nice chunk behind that. 

Not happening any time in he 2020s, but we will get closer, yes.

That's why , it needs more than just photo realistic aspect . It need animation, physics, AI to make the it living breathing, and not just doll.  Probably RT effect need some refinement for next gen. For physical based rendering we already achieved this gen only need some RT effect to make it perfect. 



HollyGamer said:
CGI-Quality said:

~ snip

That's why , it needs more than just photo realistic aspect . It need animation, physics, AI to make the it living breathing, and not just doll.  

Yep, I know. :)